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srtc10
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How can the Magisterium be authoritative over something that existed before it did? (ie: the OT)
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Isaiah45_9
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Maybe this will help you:
The Magisterium of the Church (From CCC)
85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.
86 "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."48
87 Mindful of Christ’s words to his apostles: “He who hears you, hears me”,49 the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.
The dogmas of the faith
88 The Church’s Magisterium exercises the authority it holds from Christ to the fullest extent when it defines dogmas, that is, when it proposes, in a form obliging the Christian people to an irrevocable adherence of faith, truths contained in divine Revelation or also when it proposes, in a definitive way, truths having a necessary connection with these.
89 There is an organic connection between our spiritual life and the dogmas. Dogmas are lights along the path of faith; they illuminate it and make it secure. Conversely, if our life is upright, our intellect and heart will be open to welcome the light shed by the dogmas of faith.50
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10382118&postcount=19
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Isaiah45_9
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More here:
874 Christ is himself the source of ministry in the Church. He instituted the Church. He gave her authority and mission, orientation and goal:
In order to shepherd the People of God and to increase its numbers without cease, Christ the Lord set up in his Church a variety of offices which aim at the good of the whole body. The holders of office, who are invested with a sacred power, are, in fact, dedicated to promoting the interests of their brethren, so that all who belong to the People of God . . . may attain to salvation.389
875 "How are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? And how can men preach unless they are sent?"390 No one - no individual and no community - can proclaim the Gospel to himself: "Faith comes from what is heard."391 No one can give himself the mandate and the mission to proclaim the Gospel. The one sent by the Lord does not speak and act on his own authority, but by virtue of Christ’s authority; not as a member of the community, but speaking to it in the name of Christ. No one can bestow grace on himself; it must be given and offered. This fact presupposes ministers of grace, authorized and empowered by Christ. From him, bishops and priests receive the mission and faculty (“the sacred power”) to act in persona Christi Capitis; deacons receive the strength to serve the people of God in the diaconia of liturgy, word and charity, in communion with the bishop and his presbyterate. The ministry in which Christ’s emissaries do and give by God’s grace what they cannot do and give by their own powers, is called a “sacrament” by the Church’s tradition. Indeed, the ministry of the Church is conferred by a special sacrament.
876 Intrinsically linked to the sacramental nature of ecclesial ministry is its character as service. Entirely dependent on Christ who gives mission and authority, ministers are truly "slaves of Christ,"392 in the image of him who freely took “the form of a slave” for us.393 Because the word and grace of which they are ministers are not their own, but are given to them by Christ for the sake of others, they must freely become the slaves of all.394
877 Likewise, it belongs to the sacramental nature of ecclesial ministry that it have a collegial character. In fact, from the beginning of his ministry, the Lord Jesus instituted the Twelve as "the seeds of the new Israel and the beginning of the sacred hierarchy."395 Chosen together, they were also sent out together, and their fraternal unity would be at the service of the fraternal communion of all the faithful: they would reflect and witness to the communion of the divine persons.396 For this reason every bishop exercises his ministry from within the episcopal college, in communion with the bishop of Rome, the successor of St. Peter and head of the college. So also priests exercise their ministry from within the presbyterium of the diocese, under the direction of their bishop.
878 Finally, it belongs to the sacramental nature of ecclesial ministry that it have a personal character. Although Christ’s ministers act in communion with one another, they also always act in a personal way. Each one is called personally: "You, follow me"397 in order to be a personal witness within the common mission, to bear personal responsibility before him who gives the mission, acting “in his person” and for other persons: “I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit . . .”; “I absolve you . . . .”
879 Sacramental ministry in the Church, then, is a service exercised in the name of Christ. It has a personal character and a collegial form. This is evidenced by the bonds between the episcopal college and its head, the successor of St. Peter, and in the relationship between the bishop’s pastoral responsibility for his particular church and the common solicitude of the episcopal college for the universal Church.
The episcopal college and its head, the Pope
880 When Christ instituted the Twelve, "he constituted [them] in the form of a college or permanent assembly, at the head of which he placed Peter, chosen from among them."398 Just as "by the Lord’s institution, St. Peter and the rest of the apostles constitute a single apostolic college, so in like fashion the Roman Pontiff, Peter’s successor, and the bishops, the successors of the apostles, are related with and united to one another."399
881 The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the “rock” of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock.400 "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of apostles united to its head."401 This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the Church’s very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope.
882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter’s successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."403
883 “The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter’s successor, as its head.” As such, this college has "supreme and full authority over the universal Church; but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff."404
scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p4.htm#874
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aidanbradypop
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srtc10…Isaiah45_9 gave you the CCC.
I suspect you give the Bible sole authority as a Protestant. Right?
I suspect you give the Bible sole authority as a Protestant. Right?
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Nicea325
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And how can the Bible be authoritative over God who existed long before? We are in the New Convenant…not the Old. We are not a people of the book like Jews and Muslims,but of the person: Christ.
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aidanbradypop
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Nicea325
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And to bad your interpretation is seriously flawed like all the people who try to use 2 Tim 3:16 as proof.
No where does the above say ONLY scripture is to be used or the final authority.
Sorry,but you are dead wrong!
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joe370
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Check out the CCC. It was one of the reasons why I joined the Catholic Church. I was so surprised to to see that what my non-catholic friends were saying was tantamount to either misinformation or disinformation.
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__PM.HTM
95 "It is clear therefore that, in the supremely wise arrangement of God, sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium of the Church are so connected and associated that one of them cannot stand without the others. Working together, each in its own way, under the action of the one Holy Spirit, they all contribute effectively to the salvation of souls."62
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srtc10
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Isaiah,
I don’t see anything in the CCC that you provided that addresses my question. Where does it state that the Magisterium is authoritative over the previously existing OT?
I don’t see anything in the CCC that you provided that addresses my question. Where does it state that the Magisterium is authoritative over the previously existing OT?
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srtc10
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Not the “Bible” as you have stated, but I do give the Scriptures the sole and final authority in all matters of faith and morals to the Christian.
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srtc10
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I don’t see how your response has anything to do with what I asked.
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Isaiah45_9
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From Post 235
88 The Church’s Magisterium exercises the authority it holds from Christ to the fullest extent when it defines dogmas, that is, when it proposes, in a form obliging the Christian people to an irrevocable adherence of faith, truths contained in divine Revelation or also when it proposes, in a definitive way, truths having a necessary connection with these.
Read along with:
[bibledrb]Matthew 28:18-20[/bibledrb]
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Isaiah45_9
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And who are you to determine what is the final authority in all matters of faith and morals to the Christian?
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ufamtobie
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The final Authority comes from the Church who interprets Scripture by the power of the Holy Spirit this is done. It is a Grace form on High to be Catholic.
Matt 16: 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
Jesus Christ did not say I will build my bible/Scripture. He did not give the Keys to the Bible but to His Church so therefore it is the Church and the Apostles and their successors that has the keys to bind or loose anything. Amen Now This Is the Final Authority right out of the Mouth Of Jesus Christ Himself, to His Church and His Apostles and Successors.
Ufam Tobie
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Adamski
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srtc10
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Are you trying to say that “fullest extent” means it’s authority encompasses the previous 4000+ years?
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srtc10
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OK, I looked at Acts 1 and Acts 15. I don’t see my question addressed.Acts 1 , apostolic sussesion
Acts 15 church councils
Would be good place to start
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Nicea325
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Oh but it does. You are placing the scriptures above the church which is the fullness of Jesus. Now where does Scripture explicitly teach it is the final authority above the church?
I have yet to read it anywhere in the OT or NT.
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Nicea325
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And 4,000 + years is above an Eternal God? Show us where God explicitly teaches the Bible is all one needs and is the final authority? I’ll tell you where: NO WHERE!
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Nicea325
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Chapter and verses where the Bible explicitly teaches such a position? You can forget 2 Tim 3:16 because it no where makes such a declaration nor did St Paul write it down as a proof of the Bible-Only.
BTW: Tell me what Bible Abraham used as his final authority on all matters of faith and morals?
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