"Bible beleiving Church"

[Pastor_Jim]

So where does it say in Scripture to have Scripture as Authority alone?

Do you mean me? I don’t know. We don’t believe that.

If you believe the Bible is authoritative above all else you have to get it from somewhere don’t you.

Again, do you mean me? We don’t believe that the Bible is the only authority so I don’t understand why you want me to defend something we don’t even believe.

 

[JustaServant]

Hypothetical situation:
What qualifies a church to be a “bible believing church“?
Can all Christian churches regardless of doctrine claim this title? If the answer is no, what is the specific measure we use to determine it?
JED

Used to use that term a lot once. It basically meant that a church ‘believes’ the Bible to be inspired and without ‘errors’ (i.e. lies, falsehoods, mistakes, legends, ect.).
All well and good.
Here is the problem as I encountered it:

1.In many of the ‘bible believing churches’ I was a part of and pastored, very little Bible was being read (as opposed to a minimum of three Scripture readings in a Catholic Mass). Very often the preacher will read one verse of scripture and go on for a half hour without ever returning to that verse or any other verse.

1. In many of the ‘bible believing churches’ I was a part of and pastored, many christians would never crack their Bible except for Sunday morning. I used to say from the pulpit that ‘those who clutch their KJVs the hardest never seem to READ their KJVs’!
2. In the ‘bible believing churches’ that did not practice the two above examples (for which I give them much credit for) they are stuck in the doctrine of ‘sola scriptura’. They read and study much Bible, the problem is what they are teaching is their interpretation, not the Bible.

 

[trrocks03]

ziapueblo;4052547:

Amen…*unless a man be **born again ***

of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Agreed. Be **born again ** blank blank and then when and where to be baptised with work itself out.

Whoa I am getting dizzy…

Pastor Jim, can you fill in the blanks?

 

[historyb]

Do you mean me? I don’t know. We don’t believe that.

If you believe the Bible is authoritative above all else you have to get it from somewhere don’t you.

 

[ziapueblo]

Thank you for your quick response.

In regard to it’s submission to the Bible, it’s a mess.

I am still not sure what you mean by this. Would you please go into more detail? Thanks.

Come, now. You’re too modest! As a Catholic, of course you already know the verses that define such things as the nature of God, the nature of man, the means of salvation, etc, as essentials.

I have heard many non-Catholic Christians use the term essential and non-essential. For example, we, baptists for example, believe with the presbyterians when it comes to the essential doctrine but not the non-essentials. What are the essentials and non-essentials? As far as I know the Catholic Church does not teach that there are essential and non-essential doctrines.

Agreed. Be born again and then when and where to be baptised with work itself out.

As a Catholic I believe that you are regenerated at baptism. You do not believe this? It seems clear to me in Scripture, but I would love to see your opinion.

Well, the Bible does tell us to study the scriptures and rightly divide the word of truth.

You are right. Of course, at the time, the Scriptures being referred to was the Old Testament. But of course we need to read the Scriptures. The Catholic Church actually calls on use to read the Scriptures.

Because of Dan-Boy’s personal attacks against me in two other threads, he’s on my ignore list and I won’t be responding to his questions.

I am sorry to hear that. How about if I ask What is your answer to how we, Christians, received the Bible?

God Bless

 

[Pastor_Jim]

I am still not sure what you mean by this. Would you please go into more detail? Thanks.

I mean that the Catholic church routinely teaches things that are not Biblical, ignores things that are, and puts it’s traditions and the opinions of “early church fathers” over scripture.

I have heard many non-Catholic Christians use the term essential and non-essential. For example, we, baptists for example, believe with the presbyterians when it comes to the essential doctrine but not the non-essentials. What are the essentials and non-essentials? As far as I know the Catholic Church does not teach that there are essential and non-essential doctrines.

Oh, no. The Catholic church absolutely does teach that there are essential doctrines. They’re just not the same essential doctrines and the Bible’s essential doctrines.

As a Catholic I believe that you are regenerated at baptism. You do not believe this? It seems clear to me in Scripture, but I would love to see your opinion.

I prefer the Biblical model, that one is regenerated at the moment he is born again and is then baptised.

I am sorry to hear that. How about if I ask What is your answer to how we, Christians, received the Bible?

Asking questions by proxy defeats the purpose of putting him on ignore.

 

[Michael96]

I do wonder, even on a forum like this which attracts people very interested in their faith, what percentage have actually read the Bible from cover to cover? 75%, 50% 25%?

 

[JustaServant]

The very phrase “Bible-believing” implies the WHOLE of Scripture, does it not?

There is only one Church which is consistent with the whole and that is the Catholic Church. Others magnify aspects to the detriment of others, some (Word of Faith for example) take ONE VERSE and build a cult around it.

A good way to find out which is which is to simply ask them to explain James 2. It’s a good fault line because James inveighs against those who claim to believe and yet do nothing, a variation of Christ’s criticism of the Pharisees’ empty faith.

Excellent point.

 

[trrocks03]

Asking questions by proxy defeats the purpose of putting him on ignore.

Yes, and saying anything to avoid answering a question is not helpful to a debate. You sound allot like Clinton…“Don’t ask, don’t tell”

 

[Pastor_Jim]

I do wonder, even on a forum like this which attracts people very interested in their faith, what percentage have actually read the Bible from cover to cover? 75%, 50% 25%?

I’ve read it in it’s entirety many times, but never straight through, from front to back.

 

[JustaServant]

I do wonder, even on a forum like this which attracts people very interested in their faith, what percentage have actually read the Bible from cover to cover? 75%, 50% 25%?

I beleive many christians do read it from cover to cover, once, perhaps twice. After that it is more selective.

 

[MrS]

just looking through the Bible for a verse that says Mr Jim has any authority to interpret Scripture.

Might be next to the verse that says he is saved.

 

[Michael96]

I beleive many christians do read it from cover to cover, once, perhaps twice. After that it is more selective.

We could never get a good view, but I’d actually be amazed if even 25% of mass-going Catholics have actually read the Bible. It is just not in our culture, which I think is a great shame.

 

[Pastor_Jim]

just looking through the Bible for a verse that says Mr Jim has any authority to interpret Scripture.

Christians are commanded to study the scriptures so that we may rightly divide the word of truth (that means that terrible “i” word that Catholics are so afraid of: interpret) in 2 Timothy 3.

For the record, I know that I am saved because 1 John 5:1-15 says so.

 

[fbl9]

the Catholic church teaches only the doctrines required for salvation,it does not teach any “non essential” doctrines…btw pj do you hold that catholics are not christians…

 

[JustaServant]

We could never get a good view, but I’d actually be amazed if even 25% of mass-going Catholics have actually read the Bible. It is just not in our culture, which I think is a great shame.

I have a few Catholic relatives who go to Mass on Sunday, but get their ‘Bible’ from a TV evangelist.
On another point, as our society becomes more and more illiterate (which statistics seem to indicate), Bible studies (Catholic or Protestant) will become more difficult. New ways of transmission will have to be employed.
Like pictures and statues?

 

[Pastor_Jim]

the Catholic church teaches only the doctrines required for salvation,it does not teach any “non essential” doctrines…btw pj do you hold that catholics are not christians…

Some Catholics are Christians and some are not.

Belonging to a religious organization doesn’t make you a Christian any more than belonging to AAA makes you a car.

 

[JustaServant]

Twenty years ago I (raised Catholic) joined a fundamentalist ‘Bible believing’ church because I wanted them to teach me the Bible.

Twenty years later everything I have learned about the Bible I learned OUTSIDE of the fundamentalist ‘Bible believing’ church I joined.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Some Catholics are Christians and some are not.

Belonging to a religious organization doesn’t make you a Christian any more than belonging to AAA makes you a car.

Sorry Pastor Jimbo, all Catholics are Christians in the fullest sense of the word.

 

[MrS]

Christians are commanded to study the scriptures so that we may rightly divide the word of truth (that means that terrible “i” word that Catholics are so afraid of: interpret) in 2 Timothy 3.

For the record, I know that I am saved because 1 John 5:1-15 says so.

1John 5: 11And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who has not the Son of God has not life.

So this does agree with John 6, and you thus agree in the Real Presence of the Eucharist… ???

If yes, why are you not in the only Church that can offer you the Real Presence, instead of out there on your own (so to speak)??

If no, then you are simply another who choses to self-interpret to your own demise.

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