"Bible beleiving Church"

[Pastor_Jim]

which is still many many moons before any “bible beleiving” churches existed…of course the OT was written before Christ…then the other 1/3 was written by catholics after Christ’s passion and resurection…then the church sifted all the writtings and declared the canon of scripture…

I see. So then, do you accept the OT as a valid part of the Bible?

 

[ziapueblo]

If the Catholic church wrote the Bible, then how do you explain that 2/3 of the Bible was written at least 400 years before the Catholic church was established?

You are correct. The Old Testament was written before the birth of Christianity. However, the Catholic Church wrote and put together the New Testament.

Do you believe the Bible to be authoritative? If so, I find it interesting that you do not recognize the Catholic Church’s authority. For it was under the authority of the Church, given by Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit that gave us the Bible as we have it today.

 

[Pastor_Jim]

Who claimed that?

You claimed that the Bible was written by Catholics. The Old Testament is a part of the Bible, is it not?

I would say, at a minimum, they were the people of God, Isreal, and now the New Isreal is the Catholic Church.

Actually, that’s called “replacement theology” and it’s heresy.

 

[fbl9]

I find it ironic that Pastor Jim thinks I am personally attacking him by calling his beliefs heretical, yet he mocks my screen name by calling me boy.
Pot meet kettle.

His character speaks for itself.
Since I appear to be on his ignore list perhaps someone can quote me so he will read it.

done

 

[Pastor_Jim]

You are correct. The Old Testament was written before the birth of Christianity. However, the Catholic Church wrote and put together the New Testament.

If it was written before the birth of Christianity, then how did the Catholic church write it?

Do you believe the Bible to be authoritative? If so, I find it interesting that you do not recognize the Catholic Church’s authority. For it was under the authority of the Church, given by Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit that gave us the Bible as we have it today.

I reject the authority of your religious organization because your religious organization rejects the authority of the word of God.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Sorry you feel that way. Ignatius is just a man and I see no reason to equate his opinion with inspired scripture.

He was a MAN and a SAINT taught by ST. JOHN THE APOSTLE, if he didn’t get it right, YOU WONT. I love how you are just pushing him off, at least you are honest with yourself and see that St. Igniatius faith was found within the Cathoilc Church. Good progress today.

And once you learn the Bible, you become and ex-Catholic.

And become like you?

The Christian who can’t even read John 20:22-23 and see confession. Even the BLIND can read it and see the Sacrament! (of course, I am assuming you don’t believe in the Sacrament of Confession, pardon me if you do).

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Actually, that’s called “replacement theology” and it’s heresy.

What source can define that something is a heresy. Please tell me and quote them. Lets see it.

 

[fbl9]

I see. So then, do you accept the OT as a valid part of the Bible?

the books which the church has declared as scripture yes…don’t know just what you are getting at though…seems like you are trying something that just isn’t going to go into your favor though…

 

[ziapueblo]

I disagree. There are many traditions you hold that contradict scripture.

Please list them.

Actually, the CCC shows several things that contradict the Bible.

Purgatory, for instance.

That is not true. Purgatory is scriptural. You can probably find many threads on this forum on the topic of Purgatory. If you would like scriptural references I will be happy to give them to you.

None that I know of.

But it really doesn’t matter, since that isn’t what determines what the essentials are.

I know that baptists believe in immersion only baptism and that baptists also believe in baptizing adults only. Presbyterians baptize their infants.

I do not know Presbyterian theology, but I would guess that they believe that baptism regenerates the soul and Baptists see baptism as only symbolic.

Is this difference a difference in essential or non-essential doctrine?

You can assume anything you like. I don’t really care.

I am sorry and should not assume. But you will not answer the question. I have seem many of your posts on different threads and you continuously accuse Catholics of not answering your questions.

 

[ziapueblo]

If it was written before the birth of Christianity, then how did the Catholic church write it?

The Catholic Church wrote the New Testament not the Old. You may have to re-read my earlier post

I reject the authority of your religious organization because your religious organization rejects the authority of the word of God.

The Catholic Church does not reject the authority of the Word of God. The Catholic Church, for 2000 years, has upheld the authority of God. The Catholic Church has defended Jesus Christ, His Church, and the Scriptures for almost two millennia.

 

[Pastor_Jim]

That is not true. Purgatory is scriptural.

Not only is it not scriptural, it denies the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement.

Is this difference a difference in essential or non-essential doctrine?

As I said, this is a non-essential.

I am sorry and should not assume. But you will not answer the question. I have seem many of your posts on different threads and you continuously accuse Catholics of not answering your questions.

Which is another reason I don’t feel like going out of my way to play your games.

He was a MAN and a SAINT taught by ST. JOHN THE APOSTLE, if he didn’t get it right, YOU WONT.

I’m a man and a saint and I’ve been taught by some of the finest Bible teachers around. That doesn’t mean that Ignatius’ opinion is infallible.

I love how you are just pushing him off, at least you are honest with yourself and see that St. Igniatius faith was found within the Cathoilc Church. Good progress today.

And just when did I ever say that Ignatius wasn’t Catholic?

The Christian who can’t even read John 20:22-23 and see confession.

Huh? Even the BLIND can read it and see the Sacrament! (of course, I am assuming you don’t believe in the Sacrament of Confession, pardon me if you do).

Not in the superstitious sense that you do, no.

 

[ziapueblo]

Not only is it not scriptural, it denies the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement.

Please explain.

Which is another reason I don’t feel like going out of my way to play your games.

I’m not playing any games with. You seem to think that I am trying to antagonize you. I’m only asking questions. I thought that is what forums are for?

I’m a man and a saint and I’ve been taught by some of the finest Bible teachers around. That doesn’t mean that Ignatius’ opinion is infallible.

His opinion is not infallible. But St. Ignatius was a follower of the St. John the Apostle. I’ll take his interpretations of Scripture over anyone else’s.

Not in the superstitious sense that you do, no.

Are you saying that Catholics have interpreted John 20:22-23 wrong. It seems pretty clear to me:
When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

 

[adstrinity]

Maybe you missed sunday school. The Catholic Church was started when Jesus was around.

Might want to start with Matthew 16:18.

Also, refer to basic history. Try it, it helps.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch

Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God. Thus, whatever is done will be safe and valid. — Letter to the Smyrnaeans 8, J.R. Willis translation.

I don’t think he’s not saying the Catholic Church started with Jesus, he knows that Jesus started the Catholic Church around 27 AD, I think he’s saying something about the Old Testament since the Old Testament was not written by Catholics, which is true, but, the Old Testament, written by Jews, but decided as Biblical by the Catholics in the Apostolic Church.

 

[MrS]

Not

I’m a man and a saint and I’ve been taught by some of the finest Bible teachers around. That doesn’t mean that Ignatius’ opinion is infallible.

.

[1] Please name a few.

also

[2] Please share with us the name of your faith community over which you are the pastor.

[3] Please share with us your source of ordination to attain the title pastor.

[4] Please share with us a little detail about any services you lead or offer to others.

.

 

[Odell]

Not only is it not scriptural, it denies the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement.

Pastor Jim how am I to know your interpritation is correct? Lets forget im Catholic but I am a member of what you call a bible believing Church. How would I know that your interpritation is better or right while me bible believing Chruch contradicts your bible believing Chruch?

For instance I know a many Baptist and Baptist ministers who dont believe Christ purifing us before we enter heaven denies the sufficiency of Christs atonement rmember baptist believe Jesus covers our sins this is why most protestants agree there is a final sense of sanctification when you die. Because Hebrews 12:22-23talks about the spirits in heaven that have been made perfect.

So again how am I to know with out goiong into the subject of Purgatory that Christ sanctifying us before we enter is dening the sufficiency of Christ? How am I to know you are right and my good friend baptist minister is wrong?

I’m a man and a saint and I’ve been taught by some of the finest Bible teachers around. That doesn’t mean that Ignatius’ opinion is infallible.

Just because you had the finest bible teachers around does not make you inallible either

I want a honest answer how would you tell a member of your Chruch that is contaplating or studing Ignatius writings as you did in bible school im sure. How would I know Im really confused how am I to derive the truth I read Ignatius and to me it dosent contradict scripture you dont seem to contradict scripture either im confused I read scripture and dont know where to go from here

What am I to do Pastor Jim?

And just when did I ever say that Ignatius wasn’t Catholic?

So if you believe Ignatiuus was Catholic then you would understand the Catholic Church was there before the assembly of the bible right?

 

[trrocks03]

Some Catholics are Christians and some are not.

Belonging to a religious organization doesn’t make you a Christian any more than belonging to AAA makes you a car.

PJ just what makes one catholic a christian and the other not one?

One is a Christian and the other is not.

:clapping: I vote this last comment by Pastor Jim as Post of the Year.

But seriously, it seems that there is no debate going on with this man. I honestly wish we had another non-catholic or two in here besides him that would actually debate and answer questions instead of lead us around in circles. :hypno:

 

[Pastor_Jim]

:clapping: I vote this last comment by Pastor Jim as Post of the Year.

But seriously, it seems that there is no debate going on with this man. I honestly wish we had another non-catholic or two in here besides him that would actually debate and answer questions instead of lead us around in circles. :hypno:

And I wish there was a Catholic here who was interested in sincerely discussing an issue and not just looking for an excuse to throw rocks at non-Catholics.

 

[Teflon93]

And I wish there was a Catholic here who was interested in sincerely discussing an issue and not just looking for an excuse to throw rocks at non-Catholics.

You’ve been asked any number of sincere questions in forwarding discussion and have launched accusations such as the one above rather than address them.

You continue to refute yourself with each post.

If you want an honest discussion, start by being honest yourself.

You have been asked any number of times now, in this thread and others:

1. Whether you are a pastor as your handle implies.
2. Which denomination you belong to.

You have evaded each. Doing so is not the mark of a sincere interlocutor, but quite indicative of someone whose purpose is to throw rocks at the Catholic Church.

If that is not your purpose, then please answer the questions so we know where you are coming from and may argue more specifically and productively.

Presuming that is your purpose.

 

[Pastor_Jim]

You have evaded each.

As usual, this is not true. I have stated that I am a pastor of a small Baptist church many times.

 

[RickAstley]

I remember this being covered before, hold on, I’ll grab a link for you:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4055654#post4055654

I Hope this helps out