Bible & Book of Mormon comparison

[ParkerD]

Hold on. So the Bible wasn’t passed in a valid way?

Xavierlives,
I assume what Lyolee was expressing is that the Bible passed through “more hands” than the Book of Mormon passed through, so the Book of Mormon provides a purer doctrinal perspective about the saving mission of Jesus Christ and also about His saving pure gospel. Those who recorded the words that became the Bible, and those who compiled those words, were doing a wonderful and necessary thing which fulfilled the purposes of God. The Bible is rightly described as a “miracle” in how it came to be, and in the great message it provides to the world.

The Book of Mormon records that the Bible as it is sent forth in the world in our day, is missing some of the “plain and precious truths” that were clearer when originally recorded by the prophets than as the messages of the prophets became compiled and translated and are interpreted in our day. But the Book of Mormon also says that the Book of Mormon confirms the truthfulness of the Bible, so it is a witness that the Bible is true.

 

[dianaiad]

Hold on. So the Bible wasn’t passed in a valid way?

Now where, anywhere in that post, did you get a statement that the bible 'wasn’t passed in a valid way?" “Different” =/= ‘invalid.’

At least, not always.

 

[dianaiad]

That is their belief: since the Catholic Church is and was an apostate church, it did not have the authority to transmit the Bible through the generations. This justifies the BoM.

You have a good idea going there. Refined, it may be very useful, to compare the level of emphasis on various doctrines by the first LDS.

Jerusha, be very, very careful. Given that the Bible IS one of our Standard Works, and that we DO hold it to be scripture, then it would seem pretty stupid to accuse us of not considering it to be valid.

As to 'justifying the BoM," That’s a very strange position to take. Indeed, I’ve never heard it taken before. Certainly it isn’t taken by any MORMON.

 

[Xavierlives]

Jerusha, be very, very careful. Given that the Bible IS one of our Standard Works, and that we DO hold it to be scripture, then it would seem pretty stupid to accuse us of not considering it to be valid.

As to 'justifying the BoM," That’s a very strange position to take. Indeed, I’ve never heard it taken before. Certainly it isn’t taken by any MORMON.

Although I have a problem with the Mormon line of reasoning:

1. The Bible is flawed.
2. We use it anyway.
3. The Book of Mormon is perfect (eventhough it was published with 3913 errors).
4. BOM>Bible

 

[dianaiad]

Although I have a problem with the Mormon line of reasoning:

1. The Bible is flawed.
2. We use it anyway.
3. The Book of Mormon is perfect (eventhough it was published with 3913 errors).
4. BOM>Bible

The Bible is flawed…in that there are errors of translation, of ommission…and (for instance, the Johanine Comma) of addition…but it is, nevertheless, scripture.

The Book of Mormon is NOT perfect. Nobody (except in hyperbole) has ever claimed that it was. The last line of the title page on the Book of Mormon reads thusly: “And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.”

In other words, from the very beginning we have acknowledged that mistakes are possible, and they are human. No MORMON is upset about finding 4,000 odd spelling and punctuation goofs in a book that big…and almost all of them are that.

Since this is true–since your 3# is false, then of course your conclusion, #4, is also false.

 

[Xavierlives]

The Bible is flawed…in that there are errors of translation, of ommission…and (for instance, the Johanine Comma) of addition…but it is, nevertheless, scripture.

The Book of Mormon is NOT perfect. Nobody (except in hyperbole) has ever claimed that it was. The last line of the title page on the Book of Mormon reads thusly: “And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.”

In other words, from the very beginning we have acknowledged that mistakes are possible, and they are human. No MORMON is upset about finding 4,000 odd spelling and punctuation goofs in a book that big…and almost all of them are that.

Since this is true–since your 3# is false, then of course your conclusion, #4, is also false.

You must be speaking for the minority opinion. Every Mormon seems to put more follow the mormon reasoning I listed.

 

[dianaiad]

You must be speaking for the minority opinion. Every Mormon seems to put more follow the mormon reasoning I listed.

I imagine that you put forward that idea to every Mormon you deal with, Xavier; it’s every OTHER Mormon who believes what you claim they do.

 

[PJM]

=Xavierlives;5960677]I picked up a copy of a Mormon concordance so I could cross reference things going on here and I just started counting some references.

Here are some topics I looked up and the number of times referenced in the the Bible and the Book of Mormon.

Antichrist
Bible – 7 times (listed as antichrist)
Book of Mormon – 1 time (listed as Anti-Christ)

Apostacy of the Church
Bible – 41 times
Book of Mormon – 10 times

Baptism of the Dead
Bible - 1 time
Book of Mormon – 3 times

Blasphemy
Bible – 20 times
Book of Mormon – 7 times

Called of God
Bible – 30 times
Book of Mormon – 9 times

Circumcision
Bible – 38 times
Book of Mormon 2 times (listed as circumcision of the law)

Conceived in sin
Bible – 2 times
Book of Mormon – 11 times

Devil
Bible – 35 times
Book of Mormon – 58 times

Church of the Devil
Bible – 6 times (3 in Revelation)
Book of Mormon - 15 times

“Eternity”
Bible - 0
Book of Mormon – 16 times.

Exaltation
Bible – 6 times
Book of Mormon – 27 times

**Fall of Man **
Bible – 8 times
Book of Mormon – 25 times

False Prophets
Bible – 34 times
Book of Mormon – 18 times

Fasting
Bible – 28 times
Book of Mormon – 11 times

Government
Bible – 5 times
Book of Mormon – 27 times

Guilt
Bible – 15 times
Book of Mormon –28 times

Heaven
Bible – 25 times
Book of Mormon – 33 times

Hell
Bible – 29 times
Book of Mormon – 49 times

Loss of the Holy Ghost
Bible – 13 times
Book of Mormon – 22 times

Homosexuality
Bible – 11 times
Book of Mormon – 2 times

Honesty
Bible – 40 times
Book of Mormon - 41 times

Industry
Bible – 14 times
Book of Mormon – 35 times

Jehovah
Bible – 35 times
Book of Mormon – 5 times

Jesus Teaching Doctrine
Bible – 21 times
Book of Mormon – 4 times

**Labor **
Bible – 22 times
Book of Mormon – 9 times

Restoration of the Gospel
Bible – 16 times
Book of Mormon – 44 times

Sabbath
Bible – 38 times
Book of Mormon – 8 times

Sexual Immorality
Bible – 30 times
Book of Mormon – 9 times

Sorcery
Bible – 33 times
Book of Mormon – 11 times

Spirit Body
Bible – 8 times
Book of Mormon – 21 times

Usury
Bible – 12 times
Book of Mormon – 0 times

**Walking with God **
Bible – 68 times
Book of Mormon – 32 times

Zion
Bible- 34 times
Book of Mormon – 53 times

**Boy this is a TOUGH ONE

Am I going to accept the 2000 year old Catholic Bible, verifiable by TONS of historical evidence, or Bill SMITHS book, which without wittness, without evidence, without miracles, [beyond Bill saying “it’s true, because I say it’s true claim?”**

Decisions, decisions:shrug:

Thanks for the info anyway.**

 

[dianaiad]

**Boy this is a TOUGH ONE

Am I going to accept the 2000 year old Catholic Bible, verifiable by TONS of historical evidence, or Bill SMITHS book, which without wittness, without evidence, without miracles, [beyond Bill saying “it’s true, because I say it’s true claim?”**

Decisions, decisions:shrug:

Thanks for the info anyway.**

Well, I wouldn’t accept Bill Smith’s books as scripture, either–though I do like his heroine.

 

[Xavierlives]

I imagine that you put forward that idea to every Mormon you deal with, Xavier; it’s every OTHER Mormon who believes what you claim they do.

Well, I’ve known about 10 Mormons (12 if I count you and Parker). I have a hard time gauging accuracy between what they told me, what you tell me, and what the LDS site tells me.

They told me certain things and when I bring them up, you disclaim it.
I read the LDS site talk about it with you and you dodge it.
I read the Bible and use it as a reference and you ignore me.

I’d like to get a better understanding of your faith but with the disclaim, dodge, and ignore I am getting, I am really having a difficult time.

 

[dianaiad]

Well, I’ve known about 10 Mormons (12 if I count you and Parker). I have a hard time gauging accuracy between what they told me, what you tell me, and what the LDS site tells me.

They told me certain things and when I bring them up, you disclaim it.
I read the LDS site talk about it with you and you dodge it.
I read the Bible and use it as a reference and you ignore me.

I’d like to get a better understanding of your faith but with the disclaim, dodge, and ignore I am getting, I am really having a difficult time.

Xavier, it would help your cause if you would approach with a little less…er…abrasiveness?

For instance, just today you begin a thread with a demand that I tell you whether Jesus and Satan are brothers, accuse me of calling the OP a troll (in a thread that I didn’t even see, much less visit…and your accusation was in the OPENING POST, for heaven’s sake!) and then you took the same question to a different thread, scolding me for not answering you soon enough in the first thread–which at that time I had not seen.

…a question, by the way, that I have answered several times, and rather extensively—and in threads to which you have posted.

So please excuse me, Xavier; this is not a police interogation room, my life does not revolve around breathlessly anticipating your every demand that I justify my faith to you, especially when the questions you ask have been answered many times.

If you feel dodged and ignored, I’m sorry. Perhaps you prefer to feel dodged and ignored rather than simply–overlooked. If so, feel free…but I am not here at your command and I don’t “heel” well.

Just so you know.

 

[Xavierlives]

Xavier, it would help your cause if you would approach with a little less…er…abrasiveness?

For instance, just today you begin a thread with a demand that I tell you whether Jesus and Satan are brothers, accuse me of calling the OP a troll (in a thread that I didn’t even see, much less visit…and your accusation was in the OPENING POST, for heaven’s sake!) and then you took the same question to a different thread, scolding me for not answering you soon enough in the first thread–which at that time I had not seen.

…a question, by the way, that I have answered several times, and rather extensively—and in threads to which you have posted.

So please excuse me, Xavier; this is not a police interogation room, my life does not revolve around breathlessly anticipating your every demand that I justify my faith to you, especially when the questions you ask have been answered many times.

If you feel dodged and ignored, I’m sorry. Perhaps you prefer to feel dodged and ignored rather than simply–overlooked. If so, feel free…but I am not here at your command and I don’t “heel” well.

Just so you know.

Well trust me when I say, I am not expecting anything from you anymore. I just don’t like to see little snide comments about LDS not answering LDS questions because you think the people are trolling. I’m not the one who made the comment, you are. My questions are not traps or tricks or ways to catch LDS in anything. LDS has their established doctrine and there is nothing I can do here to add or detract from that. Moreover I am not trying to judge you, convert you, or otherwise change your mind. You are set. My questions are for me (and I am genuinely trying to learn about your faith). I am never going to convert to Mormonism, but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t learn about your faith. I find the whole thing to be fascinating but I quite honestly don’t have the time to read every written text, but often the text that I do read opens more questions.

I am sorry you think I am being abrasive. I’ll say today I was a bit miffed because your trolling comment. Personally I think I have been holding back in the spirit of good will. While our conversations have been interesting, I can’t say I’ve ever felt anger toward you. I have somewhat looked forward to the LDS responses (yours included). I have been trying to ask a series of questions I have had in my “Notes from LDS Missionary talks,” but if you feel, I am bothering you or whatever, just stop I answering I guess. There are only a few resident LDS members talking and so there is a limited expectation that they will be the ones answering the questions. “No answers” are what I have right now, so if these questions continue to be unanswered, it is no big deal, just more of the same.

 

[Xavierlives]

Now where, anywhere in that post, did you get a statement that the bible 'wasn’t passed in a valid way?" “Different” =/= ‘invalid.’

At least, not always.

I didn’t quote him/her.

 

[Vaya_Con_Dios]

**Boy this is a TOUGH ONE

Am I going to accept the 2000 year old Catholic Bible, verifiable by TONS of historical evidence, or Bill SMITHS book, which without wittness, without evidence, without miracles, [beyond Bill saying “it’s true, because I say it’s true claim?”**

Decisions, decisions:shrug:

Thanks for the info anyway.**

Isn’t his name Joseph?

 

[Vaya_Con_Dios]

It’s seems to me that there is a lack of God’s Spirit here.

 

[Xavierlives]

It’s seems to me that there is a lack of God’s Spirit here.

Nah, there is lots of spirit.

 

[FightingFat]

Jehovah
Bible – 35 times
Book of Mormon – 5 times

Say what?

 

[FightingFat]

Xavier, it would help your cause if you would approach with a little less…er…abrasiveness?

For instance, just today you begin a thread with a demand that I tell you whether Jesus and Satan are brothers, accuse me of calling the OP a troll (in a thread that I didn’t even see, much less visit…and your accusation was in the OPENING POST, for heaven’s sake!) and then you took the same question to a different thread, scolding me for not answering you soon enough in the first thread–which at that time I had not seen.

…a question, by the way, that I have answered several times, and rather extensively—and in threads to which you have posted.

So please excuse me, Xavier; this is not a police interogation room, my life does not revolve around breathlessly anticipating your every demand that I justify my faith to you, especially when the questions you ask have been answered many times.

If you feel dodged and ignored, I’m sorry. Perhaps you prefer to feel dodged and ignored rather than simply–overlooked. If so, feel free…but I am not here at your command and I don’t “heel” well.

Just so you know.

 

[Xavierlives]

Thx?