Bible Christian trying to save a Catholic

  • Thread starter Thread starter 4life4nfp
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
There’s a lot of good (name removed by moderator)ut here. I tend toward being as generous as I can without taking away from my other responsibilities (e.g. family), so the idea of avoiding dangerous situations is not what I would do. I also tend to like to drive the conversation by asking questions that address the person’s highest values. For example, i would say, “You want to do everything Jesus would ask of you, right?”
"Jesus commands in Matthew 28:20, the great commission, “Make disciples of every nation teaching them to obey ***ALL ***I have commanded you.”

“You want do do ALL that Jesus commanded, right?”

“What then is ALL? If Jesus made this commandment He’d also provide a way for us to fulfill it. He certainly wouldn’t then say 'Well, things are so messed up, there’s no way to know ALL that I commanded, so I rescind my previous command.”

This I believe addresses many of your issues with your neighbor. The Church is not only true in some abstract way, it also provides for the deepest desires of a true Christian’s heart, the desire to know, love and serve God.
 
I was an independant baptist once. Then I read “Born Fundamentalist Born again Catholic” by David B. Currie. I would tell him that he should read that book. He “sola scriptura” (a myth really), ask him if he ever reads commentaries or footnotes, then explain you have tradition from the beginning not just some guys interpetation. BTW, the bible says twice that people need to adhere to tradition as well as the bible (2 Thessalonians 3:6, and 2 Thessalonians 2:15). Then ask him which came first the canon of New Testament scripture or the church. The church obviously, the people protestants never want to read (the early church) canonized their bible except the FACT protestants butchered the bible taking out scripture. I wouldn’t do a bible study with him, he will take things out of context, twist things and it’s just a waste of time. I would tell him to read the above book and then ask him the questions above. He, (if he’s honest) with have to admit that he got his scipture from the Catholic church. (unless he’s an ardent Jack Chick reader with his lies)

Anyway good luck,
defenderoftruth
 
It’s obvious that this neighbor who has asked you to come over for a one-on-one Bible study is really just planning to ambush you. He is equally obviously one of those who think that “Catholics are not Christians.” So I suppose that all those who died before the Reformation went to Hell? His daughters did not come by those Chick tracts on their own. They are pernicious. I saw one that portrayed Mary as leading the Faithful to Satan (with Satan sitting on a throne and saying “Well done, good and faithful servant!” to Mary. Anyone who passes around Jack Chick or Tony Alamo (another Catholic hater) tracts is not going to even try to be fair or evenhanded. Hie thee to a good Catholic bookstore or online site and get a good apologetics primer. Offer to exchange questions and claims in writing. He’ll either get angry or … just maybe … learn the truth like Scott Hahn and so many other protestant ministers have when they started studying to find ways to disprove the Catholic Church but instead wound up realizing that the Catholic Faith is the true Church!
 
I have no problem discussing religion with non-Catholic Christians, and do so frequently, but the chick tract would be a deal breaker for me. If someone had the audacity to bring that filth to my children, I would light it on fire. Then I would tell my children that people who intentionally spread lies about the Church will fare no better. Bearing false witness is a sin. Dramatic, yes, but so are those tracts… especially to impressionable young children. It’s a revolting tactic.

When I was done, I would tell the neighbor that if I should ever see another tract around my home or around my children, I will know that it was by his design and end whatever relationship was being established. Jesus didn’t need to spread vicious lies to get His message across and no true follower of His would do so either.

As for the Bible study, I only engage in it with people who understand that it is quid pro quo. If he is knowledgeable and secure in his own faith, he should have no problem reading Catholic literature and taking his family to celebrate Mass. If it is one-sided, I would pass.
 
There is something that you and ALL Catholics should know about people like your neighbor. They are all ignorant about the Catholic faith. They only know what someone else has told them which is probably not the truth. If you go over there, prepare yourself and enlighten him.
 
Start talking with him about Authority. Both Biblical and Ecclesial. Then, make the next topic Authority. After that, you might want to head in the direction of Authority. Once you have covered everything to do with Authority, tackle the important subject of Authority.

You cannot go past this issue! Do not move on to ANYTHING else. It is an absolute waste of time. Believe me, I’ve tried time and again, but these well-meaning folk either just don’t get it (whether deliberately or not, only God knows), or sign up with the local Priest for instruction!
 
Agree to the bible study, but YOU choose which book of the bible…the Book of Tobit comes to mind, or better yet, 2 Maccabees and you could discuss the doctrine of Purgatory.:rolleyes:

Bible studies are wonderful, my parish is doing the “Great Adventure” by Jeff Cavins right now. Its has been terrifffffffic so far and has helped me grow leaps and bounds in my Catholic Faith.👍

Thats an Idea,You not only Choose which Book of the bible to study, but You Choose which bible study program.👍
 
Borrow his bible and skim over the pages. Look at the back and the front cover and hand him back his bible and say “There is no index or listing where it says core beliefs and minor beliefs”. 😃

“MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.”

Ther are NO core or minor doctrines.

After doing such… hold up his bible high up and ask him, what is the foundation, the bulwark, the support and the defender of truth???

…and if he says “Of course the BIBLE !”

…then open his bible and read 1 Tim 3:15.

…and ask him, if the Church is the Pillar and Bulwark of truth, shouldn’t we ought to be listening to the church when it talks about faith and morals?

That’ll make him stop and think again about targeting an informed catholic again. 😉
My next door neighbor is a fundamentalist Bible Christian who has a doctorate from a “Bible” school. He wants me to come over for a bible study just me and him. He knows I am Catholic.

We were talking about all of the denominations and what “truth” is and who has the authority and what to do when there is disagreement. He believes everything we need to know is in the Bible only. He explained to me that there are a set of core Christian beliefs that renders you a Christian or not. All the other stuff is minor. He explains that there are only a few different denominations that adhere to the core beliefs. He said all of our differences (at least with the Protestants) are the different parts of the body of Christ. for example, He said that Presbyterians see well but Baptist can walk.

Am I missing something? How do I begin to talk with him when we meet? (against Fr. Serpa’s advice, of course, as heard on Catholic Answers Live a week or so ago.)

Do we talk about Peter’s Primacy, the Sacraments, Matthew 16, the Eucharist?

Praying for advice and hoping the Spirit will speak through someone on this forum. THANKS, Brian (4life4NFP) papa2eight.
 
There is something that you and ALL Catholics should know about people like your neighbor. They are all ignorant about the Catholic faith. They only know what someone else has told them which is probably not the truth. If you go over there, prepare yourself and enlighten him.
👍 I couldn’t’ve said it better myself! When do you begin your RCIA classes? 🙂
 
Absolutely be open to discussion with your neighbor!! If you’re not prepared for open discussion, tell him he has a very interesting but incorrect take on the Church, and ask him if he just likes to slander other people or if he is more interested in leading everyone to the truth. Of course he’ll say the truth is important, so tell him that you’ll take his issues with the Catholic Church, and look at each one. Either he will turn out to be right about something (you know he won’t!) or you will have taken away every issue he and his children have with the Catholic Church. You may then follow up some of your answers with probing questions that will expose him to the weaknesses in his own church–all without insults, anger, etc. When you have the truth, you don’t have to hide or shy away from scrutiny, and you SHOULDN’T!!

As for showing by example of living, this is a cop-out and a sin!! There are lots of nice atheists out there, too!! You’ll give no better example than they can give if you don’t approach other people with your faith. Jesus told us to go forth, not be polite and say hello before going inside to play X-box!
 
well put Dranzal.

I’ve been listening to John Martignoni’s One Church

I thinking I might pick a topic and pull from several books of the Bible. Looking up scripture that will answer whether the church is visible or invisible. maybe “a brother who sins…” Matthew 18:15-17. any thoughts for points or passages to bring up?

My neighbor has also dropped a line like “we are not saved by works of the law.” Galations 2, I believe. He does not like the fact that we go to Mass every Sunday. (out of love, but I think he knows it’s an “obligation.”)
 
Agree to the bible study, but YOU choose which book of the bible…the Book of Tobit comes to mind, or better yet, 2 Maccabees and you could discuss the doctrine of Purgatory.:rolleyes:
Pick any of the seven books which Luther removed. The Book of Wisdom comes to mind. And the Book of Wisdom is pretty worldshaking.
 
My neighbor has also dropped a line like “we are not saved by works of the law.” Galations 2, I believe. He does not like the fact that we go to Mass every Sunday. (out of love, but I think he knows it’s an “obligation.”)
The simple question of “why do we go to Mass every Sunday” is a treasure trove of discussion starters…
  1. Because the church says to---- Authority of the Church
  2. Because Jesus said, “Do this in rememberance of Me”—could lead to a great discussion of whether Eucharist is a symbol or not. Rely heavily on John 6 for this. Clear as a bell.
  3. Because of the abundance of grace available through reception of the Eucharist. (See 2)
And the question of “WORKS” is very adequately answered in the Catholic Answers website if you need ideas.

As I previously said, the idea is not to convert him. The idea is to suggest to him that he would be a more credible witness to his faith if he corrected his erroneous ideas about our teachings. If someone says to me, “You Catholics are all wafer worshipping, Mary idolizing heretics” I know at once that they are not credible by virtue of the fact that their “facts” are outlandish. If you appeal to his desire to be right, you may have some very good discussions at least correcting his notions about Catholicism.
 
As I previously said, the idea is not to convert him. The idea is to suggest to him that he would be a more credible witness to his faith if he corrected his erroneous ideas about our teachings. If someone says to me, “You Catholics are all wafer worshipping, Mary idolizing heretics” I know at once that they are not credible by virtue of the fact that their “facts” are outlandish. If you appeal to his desire to be right, you may have some very good discussions at least correcting his notions about Catholicism.
Excellent advice for all of us! I have never thought of using this particular line of reasoning in dealing with our misguided brothers & sisters. Will make this a part of the opening discussions from now on. 👍
 
It’s those facts that opened the door for me… I would say the facts are what opened the door for Scott Hahn, Grodi and others as well…

Growing up Baptist in the South in the “anti-Catholic hayday” of the late 70s chick tracts and anti catholic literature were prominant (and we had a 7000 member congregation). I took all of this in as a child but being lucky enough to have a Father that actually studied the Bible and History many of the “facts” didn’t pan out…

By High School I was attending the Presbyterian Church and working on a Catholic SEARCH team (to the utter dismay and saddness of my parents “friends” at their Church). After spending most Sundays in Jr.High arguing doctrinal issues with the guest speaker, enough was enough. When I agreed to take a friend to Mass every week for the first 2 years of College my parent’s friends freaked at the annual Christmas party. “Oh Sharon, that’s Catholic… you know Catholics are going to hell.” It was at this point that my parents left the Baptist Church as well for the Presbyterian.

It truly didn’t take much to get to the point that Catholicism wasn’t “of the devil” as Jack Chick and those like him would want you to believe. However it took another 20 years for me to truly understanding the longing for the Truth I was missing out on as a Presbyterian.

I would not go to his Church unless he agrees to come to Mass the next Sunday. Tell him he can sit in the back with his Bible and not participate if he wants… but that if he wants you to hear his views, he needs to experience the presence of the Lord at yours (don’t put it that way though, perhaps say the joy you experience at Mass). The Mass is the ultimate form of Worship and nothing any protestant denomnation has compares to it, bottom line. If he knows the Bible he will recognize that there is more “Bible” is your service than his.

If he is agreeable to learning the truth about the Church rather than listening to Chick, then I believe the conversations could be worth while. Not that his soul is lost, but rather he is missing out on some of the fullness he could be experienceing in his Christian Faith. You might consider picking up the book, Born Fundamentalist Born Again Catholic for him or you to read before this discussion. It will give you an insight into his mentality. It explained a lot to my mother who may actually come home soon to the Church as well. 🙂

Good Luck, and may God be with you in this Journey!

Joe
 
I don’t Catholics are being loving when they participate in Protestant Bible studies or services.
 
PATRIARCH OF ANTIOCH IS THE ACTUAL SUCCESSOR OF ST. PETER

From Bible We Know That Our Lord Has Given The Authority To

St.peter. Our Lord Says That He Will Build His Church On

Peter.
In The First Centuries, Bishop Of Antioch Was Superior To

All The Other Bishops In Rome And Alexandria. His Territory

Extended To All The Then Known Parts Of The World. Entire

Persia, India, Middle East, China Was Under The Control Of

Patriarch Of Antioch. If We Go Through The Historical

Documents He Was Regarded As The Succesor Of St. Peter. We

Can See Around 7 Letters Written By Ignatius, Bishop Of

Antioch To 7 Churches.
In The First Centuries There Was A Dispute Between Rome And

Antioch About The Successor Of Peter. If We Check The Bible,

There Is Nothing Said About The Authority Of Pope Or Rome.

Even You Check The Letter Of Paul To Romans. Nothing Is

Mentioned About The Primacy Of Roman Church.
There Is No Evidence That Peter Had Gone To Rome.
From Bible We Can Find That It Is Paul Who Had Founded The

Church Of Rome.
In The 4th And Fifth Centuries, Because Of The Influence Of

Byzantine Emperors, A New Patriarch Emerged At

Constantinople. Then The Emperor Tried To Destroy The Church

At Antioch. The Gave The Superiority To Patriarch Of

Constantinople.
In 1451, The Council Of Chalcedon Declared That The Pope Of

Rome Leo Is The Succesosr Of Peter And Head Of The Church.
After All These Events, In The 5th Century The Patriarch Of

Antioch Severus Was Deposed By The Byzantine Emperor. Those

Persons Who Accepted Pope Of Rome As The Head Were Appointed

As Bishops Of Antioch.
If We Check The Tradition And Liturgy Of Churches In India

And Middle East, We Can See That They Are Following

Antichene Tradition.
As A Result Proclaiming The Superiority Of Patriarch Of

Antioch, Jacob A Bishop Appointed Sergius Of Tella As The

Bishop Of Antioch. The Jacobite Patriarchs Then Came. They

Are The Actual Head Of The Christian Church.
We Must Know That These Europeans Are Actually Barbarians.

They Have No Culture. Now Also We Can See This. It Is Sure

That These Americans And Europeans Are Engahged In Sex With

Many People Even Before 13 Years Of Age. It Means That They

Have A Barbarian Tradition. But They Are Controllingt The

Economy Of The Whole World. They Are Propagating The Pope Of

Rome As Successor Of Peter. That Is Necessary For Their

Superiority And Existence Of Economic Power.
We Must Know The Fact That The Entire Middle East, Persia

Was Christian Before The 6 Th Century. They Were Under

Patriarch Of Antioch. Because Of Many Wars And Attack Of

Islam, Forceful Conversion By Islam Christianity In Middle

East, Persia Have Got Destroyed. The Patriarch Of Antioch

Was Under The Supervision Of Islamic Rulers.
The Colonial Invasion By British, Portugese , Dutch ,french

Resulted In The Forceful Conversion Of Those Who Were Under

The Control Of Patriarch Of Antioch To Roman Pope.
For Example, Portugese Forcefully Converted Christians Under

Antioch In India To Rome. French Forcefully Converted

Christians In Iraq Under Antioch To Roman Pope.
Through These 2000 Years It Is The Patriarch Of Antioch Who

Suffered Most. He Was In Caves Or Forests For Many Centuries

In Fear Of European Powers, Muslims, Byzantines.
If We Look At The History Of Roman Popes , Many Had

Children, Many Had Married, Many Had Children Before

Marriage, Many Became Popes At The Age Of 12 Or 13.
The Documents Now Qwe Have Proclaiming The Authority Of

Rome, Are All Fake. They Are False Documents Created During

The Reign Of Charlemagne, The 8 Th Century Roman Emperor Who

Saved Rome From Muslims.
The Reason Why All Are Proclaiming The Roman Pope Is Money

Only. The Roman Catholics Are Getting A Large Amount Money

From Europe. The Patriarch Of Anticoh Has Nothing.
In Short , The Patriarch Of Antioch Is The Successsor Of St.

Peter And Head Of The Church.
Now The Roman Pope Is Benedict 16. He Is One Of The Great

Persons Living In This World. He Is One Of The Great

Scholars In This Century. He Knows The Fact That Anticoh

Patriarch Is The Actual Head. From His Moves, We Have Got

The Perception That Something Will Take Place Soon. All The

Bishops And Historians In This World Know The Fact That

Patriarch Of Antioch Is The Peter’s Successor.

But Money Can Make A False True.
 
I don’t Catholics are being loving when they participate in Protestant Bible studies or services.
It’s all about intention, man.

Our parish, as well as others participate in interfaith prayer services. During Lent we prayed with Episcopals, Baptists, Methodists and Seventh Day Adventists (AHHH! :bigyikes: ). Sometimes more than one at a time.

I came up with a different approach to this issue. An Evangelical once told me that I needed to be rebaptised and that it was nice that my parents had water sprinkled on my head when I was an infant, but it didn’t count because I needed to reject Satan and accept Christ. I told him I did that at Confirmation and showed him in Acts where it was done there also.

Then I got sources from other faiths that do infant baptism; Lutheran, Orthodox, Episcopal and New Life all do infant baptism and publish apologetics articles on it. He was speachless.

Subrosa

(Sorry that I have been absent, my internet connection is down.)
 
It’s all about intention, man.

Our parish, as well as others participate in interfaith prayer services. During Lent we prayed with Episcopals, Baptists, Methodists and Seventh Day Adventists (AHHH! :bigyikes: ). Sometimes more than one at a time.

I came up with a different approach to this issue. An Evangelical once told me that I needed to be rebaptised and that it was nice that my parents had water sprinkled on my head when I was an infant, but it didn’t count because I needed to reject Satan and accept Christ. I told him I did that at Confirmation and showed him in Acts where it was done there also.

Then I got sources from other faiths that do infant baptism; Lutheran, Orthodox, Episcopal and New Life all do infant baptism and publish apologetics articles on it. He was speachless.

Subrosa

(Sorry that I have been absent, my internet connection is down.)
My point is that we are NOT helping non-Catholics by joining them in their non-Catholics events and services.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top