Bible Christians: If you claim that the Bible Alone is the sole rule of authority, then how do you convert those who cannot read?

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The doctrine of the Trinity is clearly written in the new Testament and can be cross-referenced to the OT.

The Church did not define it, but supported it when heretical doctrines began to surface.
So, it “is clearly written,” but “heretical doctrines began to surface.” How can that be if it is “clearly written?” That makes no sense. Obviously, without the Church and Tradition to clarify these truths, it is easy for someone to get it wrong.
You have noit shown me anything essential lacking from the Bible So, I do not need Catholic tradition to receive eternal life.
The fact that the Bible supports the essential teaching of the Church is not a coincidence. They are inseparable. You can’t know the full truth with the Bible alone. You need sacred Tradition together with the Bible. That is why many Bible-alone Christians come to different conclusions than you, and why their and your understanding of the Sacraments is flawed (and/or incomplete).
 
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Bishopite:
There was no fixed canon in Jesus’ time. Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the Old Testament Septuagint but their was not a “fixed” canon in Jesus’ day. There was the Alexandrian canon which included the dueterocanonicals, there was a Pharisial canon (which ironically included all of the Protestant 66 books) a Saducee canon (which included the pentateuch the first five books of the Bible as they didn’t affirm the resurection) and there was a Qumron canon which scholars don’t precisely know what was in it. So there were at least four canons within Jesus’ day and again there was NO fixed canon in Jesus time. Didn’t you know that the Saducees and Pharsees disagreed to what was the OT canon?
On this thread, I am watching you systematically dismantle your post to me on that other thread concerning your “human reason,” and the “reasonableness of the Catholic position.”

Your thinking is so Westernized, that you cannot accept something unless it is been “officially” defined, and named.

The fact that the apostles, and the Lord referred to OT writings in the NT is irrefutable; add to that, the fact that the apostles, and the Lord clearly expected the Jews to recognize the writings to which they referred, and that the Jews did recognize the writings to which they were being referred, and one arrives at the conclusion that a collection of writings existed that all of them knew—that would be a canon, whether or not you know its specific name.

That’s common sense; common sense that, it seems to me, your “human reason” has smothered in you—you can’t see the forest for the trees.

That was your position concerning Athanasius’ list: it’s not a canon until it’s recognized by a council as being a canon. :whacky: —Westernized.
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Bishopite:
Great, we finally agree on at least two issues.
Your “human reason” has once again failed you.

Knowing my position as well as you claim to know my position, your “human reason,” if operating properly, should have reasonably concluded that my saying the writings of the reformers, ECFs, infallible teaching magisterium, are scripture was a typographical error; but your “human reason” missed that accurate conclusion.
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Bishopite:
Oh, I thought you said you gave me a personal dispensation for not having to give you the list. Boy I was wrong.
I know the list doesn’t exist.

You have a 2,000 year old “infallible teaching magisterium” which claims the ability to infallibly interpret both scripture, and oral tradition, and which cannot supply its members with a comprehensive, up-to-date list of oral tradition; and that “infallible teacher” has infallibly defined, what, 8 verses of scripture in the past 2,000 years?
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Bishopite:
Or you can read this link which shows a plethora of examples from scripture where oral Tradition is used…
Thanks for the link, but you misrepresent its contents.

Why is it you continually refer to ex-protestant pastors to explain your beliefs, instead of referring to the teachings of your “infallible teaching magisterium?”

It seems to me that ex-protestant pastors have a better understanding of your faith than either you, or your infallible teachers do.

And you ask me what I mean by “modern, neo-Catholicism.” :rolleyes:
 
Qoute: “So, it “is clearly written,” but “heretical doctrines began to surface.” How can that be…?” Read your Bible it has a clear explanations about why some people will reject God. As a matter-of-fact the Bible tells us to expect it and be on guard.

Quote: “Obviously, without the Church and Tradition to clarify these truths, it is easy for someone to get it wrong.” ** It is the Bible that God has told us will prove whether or not the teachings of the church are true or false.**

You have noit shown me anything essential lacking from the Bible So, I do not need Catholic tradition to receive eternal life.

May God bless and keep you.
 
I have a question then for Protestant then why did it took 300 yrs to defined the Trinity? Like it took also 300 yrs to approve 27 NT text by the Catholic Church back then?
 
Mannyfit, your question has already been answered. see post #158

Catholics didn’t invent the Bible. The OT and NT was already in use while many of the Apostles, if not all, were still alive and preaching. Councils met (300 years later) when hereical writings began to surface as a way of stopping psuedo christian books from becoming part of the Bible. This question was answered before, also.
 
Mannyfit, your question has already been answered. see post #158

Catholics didn’t invent the Bible. The OT and NT was already in use while many of the Apostles, if not all, were still alive and preaching. Councils met (300 years later) when hereical writings began to surface as a way of stopping psuedo christian books from becoming part of the Bible. This question was answered before, also.
It has and it was the Catholic Church who defined those doctrine with the guidance of the Holy Spirit like it did in the Council of Jerusalem.
 
Qoute: “So, it “is clearly written,” but “heretical doctrines began to surface.” How can that be…?” Read your Bible it has a clear explanations about why some people will reject God. As a matter-of-fact the Bible tells us to expect it and be on guard.

Quote: “Obviously, without the Church and Tradition to clarify these truths, it is easy for someone to get it wrong.” It is the Bible that God has told us will prove whether or not the teachings of the church are true or false.

You have noit shown me anything essential lacking from the Bible So, I do not need Catholic tradition to receive eternal life.

May God bless and keep you.
So, you agree with us that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, and that you must receive Him worthily?

As you said, the Eucharist is in the Bible, therefore, of course, you have come to this same understanding of this very essential Sacrament. Yes?
 
Right therte’s your problem. You think the Apostles were Catholic.
Of course they were…there was only one Church in the beginning. But, that is not my point. 😛

The teaching of the Eucharist as Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, and the necessity to receive it worthily has support in the Bible and has been passed down as Tradition from the Apostles. This is evident in the fact that all Churches with apostolic succession (i.e. Catholic and Orthodox) believe this. You choose not too, because you cling to the erroneous belief that Truth handed down apostolically through Tradition is not important. And, you have an irrational faith in the interpretation of the Bible without Tradition. The two are inseparable.
 
The teaching of the Eucharist as Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, and the necessity to receive it worthily has support in the Bible and has been passed down as Tradition from the Apostles…And, you have an irrational faith in the interpretation of the Bible without Tradition.
What is irrational is the teaching of transubstantiation.
 
Wrong. There were several churches and they were told not to argue with one another over petty differences.
 
What is irrational is the teaching of transubstantiation.
Not at all. It was understood and handed down from the Apostles, who were with Christ. The only people who decided it was irrational came 1500 years later. It’s a revisionist view of our faith.
 
Wrong. There were several churches and they were told not to argue with one another over petty differences.
The belief in the Eucharist is not a petty difference. And, the churches were all one Church.
 
I didn’t know we were talking about the Eucharist. Maybe we should start a new thread for this discussion.
 
That is why I ask:

What piece of information essential to our salvation is missing from the Bible?
I would say that the essential extra-biblical information required for your salvation is the understanding of scripture.

Misunderstanding what you read could be disastrous.

Reading something that Jesus said is not enough.
Take John 6:53, for example.
“Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.”
It’s imperative that we understand this writing.

Many Christians disagree on what this verse means.
Are all of the different ‘understandings’ okay, or is one of them actually the proper ‘understanding’.
How do we know which ‘understanding’ is correct?

If only Jesus gave us a way to KNOW.

michel
 
cazayoux,

Very good! And I mean that sincerely.

It still comes down to the fact that these things are revealed to us by God and only God. People who are spiritually blinded will not get it just because someone explains it.

When Jesus made this statement many turned away because they did not understand. That was Jesus speaking to them! Before anyone can understand, first God has to open their mind to understanding.

It really doesn’t matter whether the Catholic church has an explanation for every single verse in the Bible - the JW’s have an explanation for every verse, too.
 
Oh yes, Jesus did give us a way?

But it all really boils down to fee will.
 
cazayoux,

Very good! And I mean that sincerely.

It still comes down to the fact that these things are revealed to us by God and only God. People who are spiritually blinded will not get it just because someone explains it.

When Jesus made this statement many turned away because they did not understand. That was Jesus speaking to them! Before anyone can understand, first God has to open their mind to understanding.

It really doesn’t matter whether the Catholic church has an explanation for every single verse in the Bible -*** the JW’s have an explanation for every verse, too***.
Sure, but who cares about the explanations someone came up with 135 years ago? Or even 500 years ago? On the other hand, the Catholic and Orthodox Church’s explanations trace back to the Apostles. They were there when Jesus said it. They put into practice what Jesus taught.
 
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