bible codes and the apocrapha

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hippiechyck

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Hi all!

I’m sorry if this has already been discussed. I did search and couldn’t find anything

what is the CC’s stand on The Bible Codes? Do they appear in the Apocrapha? (i know that’s not spelled right, sorry!) Aren’t they also written in Hebrew?

ETA: please direct me to any discussion already in progress…thanks again! 😉

Thanks!
 
not sure if I understand the question
do you mean the so-called bible codes described in recent sensationalized fiction books that have been published, claiming to do some kind of computer analysis on bible texts to find hidden messages? if so, the Catholic Church has no regard at all for such spurious claims.

the position of the Catholic Church on Sacred Scripture is very well stated in Dei Verbum, which you can access on the vatican website, vatican.va. The Word of God, complete and entire in the Person of Jesus Christ, is contained in human language in the Sacred Texts of the biblical canon (list of books recognized as being divinely inspired). The Word is open, clear, and available to all. Sacred Scripture was written under the guidance of the HOly Spirit, preserved and handed on within the living tradition of the Catholic Church and contains all that is necessary for our salvation. The Church has been given the authority by Christ, her founder and bridegroom, to preserve, hand on and interpret scripture. There is nothing hidden. It is there for all to see, read and hear and take to heart.

The Church was ordered by Christ on the night he rose from the dead to teach the good news to all nations, not to hide it. The message is clear, God so loved the world he sent his only Son to die so that we might have eternal life. There are layers and richness of meaning contained in Scripture that we could not uncover and understand if we had a lifetime to do nothing but read and contemplate, but all will be clear in heaven. It will not happen by means of a computer program or the fabrications of booksellers. It will happen in loving union with God. All that we need to know from scripture to know, love, obey and serve God on Earth is available through clear proclamation and teaching of the Word through the Church.
 
THen why have a Church? Or rather, then why have a church that does anything other than to get people to read the scriptue?
 
The bible code stuff doesn’t fly with me because, among other reasons, there are scribal errors in scripture, where it is pretty obvioius that the scirbe skipped a line or missed a few words. This would seem to throw the bible code out of whack.
 
we have the Church because Jesus Christ chose to establish his Church as the means through which he keeps his promise to stay with us until the end of the age, through which he chose to pour his limitless graces won through his salvific act on our behalf, and whom he chose to spread the good news and baptize all nations. If his intent had been to leave a codebook he would have left a codebook, and next to it a computer to interpret the code.

since he did not do this, and instead left a Church, founded among his beloved Jews into whose midst he came, nurtured in their scriptures which foretold his coming, completed the covenent these scriptures record, which proclaimed its own testimony to describe his life, mission, passion, death and resurrection, then we conclude, that was his intent. so we look to the Church to mediate his graces, to teach and proclaim his message and to preserve, hand on, teach, proclaim and interpret sacred Scripture.
 
hippiechyck said:
Hi all!

I’m sorry if this has already been discussed. I did search and couldn’t find anything

what is the CC’s stand on The Bible Codes? Do they appear in the Apocrapha? (i know that’s not spelled right, sorry!) Aren’t they also written in Hebrew?

ETA: please direct me to any discussion already in progress…thanks again! 😉

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Hello there! Welcome to CAF. 😃 If by Bible Codes you mean DaVinci Code type stuff, there have been articles and books written debunking the whole thing. Go to the Library (link at top of this page) and search for DaVinci Code.

Also, the “Apocrypha” for Catholics are a totally separate set of books than the Deuterocanon - those books omitted in Protestant translations, if that’s what you’re referring to. From a Catholic perspective, “The Old Testament Apocrypha includes writings such as 3 Maccabees, the Martyrdom of Isaiah, and the Book of Enoch. The New Testament Apocrypha contains works such as the Protoevangelium of James, the Gospel of Thomas, and the Gospel of Peter, as well as various pseudepigraphical epistles and apocalypses.”
 
Mathematical Miracles in the Qur’an or the Bible?
answering-islam.org/Religions/Numerics/

In short, “bible codes” have been used as proof for the Book of Mormon, the Quran, War and Peace, and various occultic books.
Given a text long enough and a person with creativity, one can find hidden numerical messages anywhere in any book.
 
Valke2 said:
THen why have a Church? Or rather, then why have a church that does anything other than to get people to read the scriptue?
Click to expand...
The necessity for ‘Scripture’ came about when other soi-disant scrolls and codices were circulating with various degrees of success among the local churches.

Judaism was confronted with the same problem: no Canon.

Thus, the meetings at Jamnia and the resultant canon of Jewish Scripture.

Thus, the decree of Pope Damasus I on what constitutes the Christian canon.

Contra to our Protestant brothers and sisters, Christianity is NOT a religion of the Book. That is a moslem construct to justify their view that Jews and Christians got it wrong and were nothing but Ur-Islamics.

Jesus and the other NT writers are always stressing HEARING the Word of God: thus, the Catholic Church has the Magisterium and the Apostolic succession of teaching oral traditions.

Robert
 
Rbt_Southwell said:
The necessity for ‘Scripture’ came about when other soi-disant scrolls and codices were circulating with various degrees of success among the local churches.

Judaism was confronted with the same problem: no Canon.

Thus, the meetings at Jamnia and the resultant canon of Jewish Scripture.

Thus, the decree of Pope Damasus I on what constitutes the Christian canon.

Contra to our Protestant brothers and sisters, Christianity is NOT a religion of the Book. That is a moslem construct to justify their view that Jews and Christians got it wrong and were nothing but Ur-Islamics.

Jesus and the other NT writers are always stressing HEARING the Word of God: thus, the Catholic Church has the Magisterium and the Apostolic succession of teaching oral traditions.

Robert
Click to expand...
Ok. That seems to be a way of saying or agreeing that the scripture itself (themselves) are not clear on their face and require interpretation.
PuzzleAnnie seemed to imply otherwise. I ask not to be a pain in the neck (that’s just a bonus), but because it is entirely possible to read the Bible with the assumption that it simply means what it says, as opposed to reading it with the assumption that much of it is meant to be allegorial, that is the concrete really represents the abstract.
 
Daniel_Marsh said:
Mathematical Miracles in the Qur’an or the Bible?
answering-islam.org/Religions/Numerics/

In short, “bible codes” have been used as proof for the Book of Mormon, the Quran, War and Peace, and various occultic books.
Given a text long enough and a person with creativity, one can find hidden numerical messages anywhere in any book.
Click to expand...
co-sign

Not to mention since we no longer even have the originals of any of these manuscripts and scribal errors are well documented using textual criticism, any “code” would be suspect to begin with. Plus the Bible was written in Greek (of which we do not own the orignal manuscripts), I’ve actually seen some of these Bible Code guys using the KJV English translation which defies logic altogether…
 
puzzleannie said:
we have the Church because Jesus Christ chose to establish his Church as the means through which he keeps his promise to stay with us until the end of the age, through which he chose to pour his limitless graces won through his salvific act on our behalf, and whom he chose to spread the good news and baptize all nations. If his intent had been to leave a codebook he would have left a codebook, and next to it a computer to interpret the code.

since he did not do this, and instead left a Church, founded among his beloved Jews into whose midst he came, nurtured in their scriptures which foretold his coming, completed the covenent these scriptures record, which proclaimed its own testimony to describe his life, mission, passion, death and resurrection, then we conclude, that was his intent. so we look to the Church to mediate his graces, to teach and proclaim his message and to preserve, hand on, teach, proclaim and interpret sacred Scripture.
Click to expand...
Wow your two posts are amazing, are you sure you are not a Vatican II author?
 
The Bible codes are not used to uncover any new Bible truths; they are used to find truths already in the Bible that are encoded in the text. This tends to prove that the author of the Bible must be God Himself!
 
This whole Bible code business is nothing more than using the Bible as a ouija board (aka stichomancy) and thus is condemned as a superstitious practice.
 
bpbasilphx said:
This whole Bible code business is nothing more than using the Bible as a ouija board (aka stichomancy) and thus is condemned as a superstitious practice.
Click to expand...
No the Rabbis who developed the Torah codes were not using the scriptures for divination. They know very well that it is forbbiden.

The problem that came about, was that a reporter who was writing an article about Rabbi Ripps who developed software to search the scripture, found Prime Minister Rabbin’s name along with the words, “assasin will assasinate”.

Rabbin was assasinated because their efforts to save him failed. But, it was taken as a kind of prophetic event.
 
RGALLI

Hi Everyone,
I would appreciate if you would reply to my Jul. 29, 2009 rgalli posting.
These Bible codes (called ELS, equidistant letter sequence) reveal truths already put in the Bible by God. They are in no way trying to uncover any new truths or trying to predict the future. These discoveries have a high statistical significance, as opposed to other books which claim codes were found in them, but have almost no statistical valadity.
Your replys would be very helpful to my understanding of the reliability of Bible codes.
 
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