Bible corrupt

[AlanF]

A muslim on Youtube sent me these three Personal Messages arguing that the Bible is corrupt and I don’t really know how to reply to him without saying “well I don’t take the Bible literally anyway” or something like that.

Could someone please help me make a good reply that shows that the Bible is infact not corrupt.

Message 1

this verse is when jesus was according to you pagans going to be crucified.

“Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed…(From the NIV Bible, Matthew 16:39)”

“So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 26:44)”

“One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. (From the NIV Bible, Luke 6:12)”

“And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be HEARD FOR THEIR MUCH SPEAKING. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. (From the KJV Bible, Matthew 6:5-8)”

When Jesus prayed ENDLESSLY all night long in Luke 6:12, did he not repeat his prayers? His main focus was on GOD Almighty saving him from the crucifixion. Jesus’ prayers all night long, which obviously were far more than just 3 times, were repetition after repetition after repetition, compromising his very own commands about not doing “vain repetitions.”

Message 2

The only verses in the whole Bible that explicitly ties God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit in one “Triune” being is the verse of 1 John 5:7

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”

Others, such as the late Dr. Herbert W. Armstrong argued that this verse was added to the Latin Vulgate edition of the Bible during the heat of the controversy between Rome, Arius, and God’s people. Whatever the reason, this verse is now universally recognized as an insertion and discarded. Since the Bible contains no verses validating a “Trinity”
therefore, centuries after the departure of Jesus, God chose to inspire someone to insert this verse in order to clarify the true nature of God as being a “Trinity.” Notice how mankind was being inspired as to how to “clarify” the Bible centuries after the departure of Jesus (pbuh). People continued to put words in the mouths of Jesus, his disciples, and even God himself with no reservations whatsoever. They were being “inspired” (see chapter two).

now i will give you 34 of the 101 contradictions of the bible.

1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

1. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

1. How many fighting men were found in Judah?

Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

1. God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)
Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

1. How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

1. How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)
Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)

1. How long did he rule over Jerusalem?

Three months (2 Kings 24:8)
Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)

1. The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?

Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)
Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)

1. When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)
Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

1. How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)
Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

1. When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?

One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)
Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)

1. How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?

Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)
Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)

1. In what year of King Asa’s reign did Baasha, King of Israel die?

Twenty-sixth year (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8)
Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)

1. How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?

Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)
Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)

1. Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?

Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)
Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)

1. Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab?

Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)
Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)

1. How many were the children of Zattu?

Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)
Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)

1. How many were the children of Azgad?

One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12)
Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17)

1. How many were the children of Adin?

Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15)
Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20)

1. How many were the children of Hashum?

Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19)
Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22)

1. How many were the children of Bethel and Ai?

Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28)
One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32)

1. Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows:

29,818 (Ezra)
31,089 (Nehemiah)
23. How many singers accompanied the assembly?

Two hundred (Ezra 2:65)
Two hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:67)

1. What was the name of King Abijahs mother?

Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2)
Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20) But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27)

1. Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?

Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40)
No (Joshua 15:63)

1. Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary?

Jacob (Matthew 1:16)
Hell (Luke 3:23)

1. Jesus descended from which son of David?

Solomon (Matthew 1:6)
Nathan(Luke3:31)

1. Who was the father of Shealtiel?

Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12)
Neri (Luke 3:27)

1. Which son of Zerubbabel was an ancestor of Jesus Christ?

Abiud (Matthew 1: 13)
Rhesa (Luke 3:27) But the seven sons of Zerubbabel are as follows: i.Meshullam, ii. Hananiah, iii. Hashubah, iv. Ohel, v.Berechiah, vi. Hasadiah, viii. Jushabhesed (I Chronicles 3:19, 20). The names Abiud and Rhesa do not fit in anyway.

1. Who was the father of Uzziah?

Joram (Matthew 1:8)
Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1)

1. Who was the father of Jechoniah?

Josiah (Matthew 1:11)
Jeholakim (I Chronicles 3:16)

1. How many generations were there from the Babylonian exile until Christ?

Matthew says fourteen (Matthew 1:17)
But a careful count of the generations reveals only thirteen (see Matthew 1: 12-16)

1. Who was the father of Shelah?

Cainan (Luke 3:35-36)
Arphaxad (Genesis II: 12)

1. Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?

Yes (Matthew II: 14, 17:10-13)
No (John 1:19-21)

dont bother explaining this because you cant. if this was a holy book then no one will have found contradictions.

I’ll have to make another thread for message 3.
Thanks in advance.
Alan

 

[AlanF]

Message 3

and with that i will leave with you proof that our profet and your prophet wether you like it or not was predicted in some of the gospels.

the Arabic word “Muhammad” is an expression which means “The honorable one” or “The glorified one” or “The admirable”. Prophet Muhammad was the first in the Middle East to be named “Muhammad”. Below, you will see how Jesus in today’s Gospel of John had called this human Prophet which he predicted his comming “The honorable one”.

Jesus in the Greek Bible used the Greek word “Periklytos” which means the admirable or glorified one. He called that predicted human prophet “Periklytos”. This word corresponds exactly to the Arabic word “Muhammad” which also means the “admired one” or “glorified one.” In other words, “Periklytos” is “Muhammad” in Greek.

John 14:16 “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever”

John 15:26 “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me”

John 14:26 “But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”

John 16:7-14 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

AND BEFORE YOU SAY IT SPEAKS OF THE HOLY GHOST THINK AGAIN BECAUSE THE HOLY GHOST WAS ALREADY PRESENT.

Genesis 1:2 “And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

1 Samuel 10:10 “And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.”

1 Samuel 11:6 “And the Spirit of God came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his anger was kindled greatly.”

“The Paraclete is a parallel figure to Jesus himself; and this conclusion is confirmed in the fact that the title is suitable for both. It is clear from 14:16 that the source thought there were sendings of two Paracletes, Jesus and his successor, the one following the other” (The Gospel of John a Commentary, Rudolf Bultmann, p. 567)

“For he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak:” This too is an interesting statement. It reminds us of the verses of Deuteronomy 18:18-19 which shall be discussed soon, specifically:

" I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him." (Deuteronomy 18:18-19)

It is also interesting to read the words of the Qur’an:

“Nor does he (Muhammad) speak of his own desire. It is but an Inspiration that is inspired [unto him]” (The noble Qur’an, Al-Najm(53):3-4)

for more information visit this web site answering-christianity.com/prediction.htm

Jesus, Mithras and Osiris
Jesus, Mithras and Osiris have numerous of similarities.
christianism.com/
usbible.com/usbi…
jesusneverexiste…
christos-mythos…

Thanks
Alan

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

These seeming inconstistancies are one of the main reasons we have the Roman Catholic Church. Through the Church, Jesus has taught us the Truth of all things important.

there are other threads about the seemingly similarities between Christ and those false gods spoken of at the end of your posts. It explains it all away.

***Church Militant ***
Senior Member
***Re: Mithras, Isis and Catholic Halos

This is some of the a-C/anti-Christian propaganda used by some people. You can find some refutation at the following links. I hope they help.
Answering Chick Tracts

Is Catholicism Pagan?

Chapter & Verse (This Rock: March 2000)

Jesus and the Pagan Gods (This Rock: May-June 2006)

Did the Catholic Church Have Its Origin in Paganism? (This Rock: May-June 2005)

Dominus meus et Deus meus
Michael ***

The thread was found at:
Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics
Mithras, Isis and Catholic Halos

Last visit: Today at 12:21 pm.

This explains a lot. Good luck.

 

[juliamajor]

What do you mean corrupt?the texts could be corrupt- damaged, margin notes mistakenly put into text, copyist errors- yah- they exist. but that is what biblical scholarship is about -trying to make sense and find the ‘truest’ most authentic version.All ancient documents have the same problem, there are no originals of the Illiad or odyssey or any of the innumerable greek and roman plays-philosophies etc. Yet no one worries if the text is corrupted:shrug: I wonder why.Looks like you took propaganda hook line and sinker. Try answering-islam.org search also catholic answers website for some articles.As for those silly web links- that’s just what they are silly. Any historian worth his salt believes Jesus was a real person and existed in time and place.Mithras-ancient persian god but we know the mithraic mysteries because of the Romans(- 1st -4ad-men only0 rose around the time of nero Which means Mithra worship became popular after Christ! the trouble is Franz Cumont the main proponent of this crud was the only one to write about it in the 1800’s. no one questioned his theories until the 20th century. One of the main problem is his mixing of a Mitra- a persian god and Mithras a Roman riff on Mitra one having little to do with the other. But like a lot of myths this one has legs because it promotes and anti God- anti- christian agenda- but is intellectually dishonest…Try BibleMaster.com they do a great job correcting the nonsense. The iconography that they say is similar to christianity is really hilarious.They apparently never read the Bible. The truth is out there don’t be sidetracked by smoke and mirrors

 

[annem]

the trouble is Franz Cumont the main proponent of this crud was the only one to write about it in the 1800’s. no one questioned his theories until the 20th century. One of the main problem is his mixing of a Mitra- a persian god and Mithras a Roman riff on Mitra one having little to do with the other. But like a lot of myths this one has legs because it promotes and anti God- anti- christian agenda- but is intellectually dishonest…Try BibleMaster.com they do a great job correcting the nonsense. The iconography that they say is similar to christianity is really hilarious.They apparently never read the Bible. The truth is out there don’t be sidetracked by smoke and mirrors

Boy, are you right! Cumont wrote one of the most famous of the “History of Religions” books. The “History of Religions” was a theory by biblical scholars that early Christianity took some of it’s basic dogmas from the pagan mystery religions.

The “History of Religions” theory was argued from around 1880-1930 or so. It was totally refuted.

Cumont’s book is a good example. He claimed much of early Christianity borrowed from the Mithraic cult. Subsequent investigation proved that the Mithric cult started about 100 years after the start of Christianity. There was a small Iranian cult with a Mithras god which had little, if anything, to do with the Mitharic cult that was later so popular with the Roman army, the one Cumont claimed created Christianity,

A book that explains all this: “The JEsus Legend” by Eddy or “The Gospel and the Greeks” by Nash.

God bless, Annem

 

[NotWorthy]

Wait a second. Is this a Muslim making this claim?!? Isn’t that like a pot complaining because the kettle is black?!?

I don’t know the particulars, but the Koran (?) is full of contradictory teachings, and what the good Muslims are faced with is following the teachings that come later in the book, when there are conflicts.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

You can’t try to answer all this junk he has spewed, so pick one thing. He says

When Jesus prayed ENDLESSLY all night long in Luke 6:12, did he not repeat his prayers? His main focus was on GOD Almighty saving him from the crucifixion. Jesus’ prayers all night long, which obviously were far more than just 3 times, were repetition after repetition after repetition, compromising his very own commands about not doing “vain repetitions.”

Jesus in Luke 6:12 is not praying to God to save him from crucifixion. It was right before he chose his twelve apostles and then delivered Luke’s version of the Sermon on the Plain. Jesus often goes off alone and prays. We don’t know if he repeated his prayers or not, it doesn’t say. He was probably praying for guidance in the important things he was about to do. And if he did repeat some prayers, like saying the rosary, they were not “vain repetitions” because they weren’t done for show, which is what he condemned the Pharisees for - making a big show of being faithful, but in reality, in their heart, not being faithful. That is what makes the repetitions “vain” - not the fact that they are repeated, but that they are done for show. Obviously, this wasn’t the case when Jesus went off by himself to pray - he wasn’t making a big show of piety to impress other people - nobody was around to see him.

 

[Jolly_Joe]

The list is a well known one. With some searching, there are sites that answer the objections.

As for 1 John 5:7 being the only explicite reference to the trinity, isn’t he aware of (Mat 28:19 ESV) Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

As for the vain repetition, we aren’t told that Jesus just mumbles something over and over thinking that makes his prayer powerful. He is reading into the text something that isn’t there.

He likely has a folk religion built up about the Quran.

Ask him about it.

He might say that they have the original. They do not, the original was written on leaves, and bones and rocks and has been destroyed.

He might say all the Arabic copies of the Quran are in perfect agreement, they are not, search “textual criticism quran”.

Ask him if he realizes that part of the Quran was lost when the goat ate it? sakshitimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=134&Itemid=42

The Hadiths are quite clear the Quran has been changed.

For instance, the references to the daughters of Allah is now somewhat obscured. When Mohammed started teaching about them he was greeted with opposition. Since they are not the daughters of the true God but of the moon god. See: bible.ca/islam/islam-allahs-daughters.htm

It should also be noted to the Muslim that the Quran makes the case that the Bible is uncorrupt. We now have manuscript evidence of the Bible from well before the Quran. If the Bible is corrupt, the Quran is wrong. See: sakshitimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=134&Itemid=42

JJ

 

[Mea_Culpa]

Ask him if he realizes that part of the Quran was lost when the goat ate it? sakshitimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=134&Itemid=42

The goat ate my homework (and my Quran too!) Good goat.

 

[LtTony]

I have pursued many so-called corruptions of scripture and our faith. Nearly all can be dismissed with just a casual check, as these have been addressed time and time again. This person is just parroting what he has heard or read on the internet.

Google “101 contradictions of the bible”. You’ll see what I mean.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

You can’t try to answer all this junk he has spewed, so pick one thing. He says

Jesus in Luke 6:12 is not praying to God to save him from crucifixion. It was right before he chose his twelve apostles and then delivered Luke’s version of the Sermon on the Plain. Jesus often goes off alone and prays. We don’t know if he repeated his prayers or not, it doesn’t say. He was probably praying for guidance in the important things he was about to do. And if he did repeat some prayers, like saying the rosary, they were not “vain repetitions” because they weren’t done for show, which is what he condemned the Pharisees for - making a big show of being faithful, but in reality, in their heart, not being faithful. That is what makes the repetitions “vain” - not the fact that they are repeated, but that they are done for show. Obviously, this wasn’t the case when Jesus went off by himself to pray - he wasn’t making a big show of piety to impress other people - nobody was around to see him.

Very true. Thank you for stating it so well. I would have taken 1 1/2 posts to say all of that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Am I being repitieous? What if I ask please a number of times? would God condemn that? Of course not. God wants to hear anything we have to say to Him. It’s called praying. If I am having a hard day, should I not ask Him to help me as many times as I feel overwhelmed? Of course I should!!! And Jesus said nothing against it. Are they trying to say that we have to have original thoughts that we have never spoken with God about each and every time we speak to God? That makes no sense, and Jesus never said it.
So thank you for your post. I LOVE THE TRUTH!!!

 

[AlanF]

[SIGN]Thanks![/SIGN]

Thanks, all of you for the help. I didn’t really know how to respond to it all but I have now and I believe I refuted all the parts of his messages.

Thanks.
Alan

 

[KingAlfred]

A muslim on Youtube sent me these three Personal Messages arguing that the Bible is corrupt and I don’t really know how to reply to him without saying “well I don’t take the Bible literally anyway” or something like that.

Could someone please help me make a good reply that shows that the Bible is infact not corrupt.

Message 1

Message 2

I’ll have to make another thread for message 3.
Thanks in advance.
Alan

I recommend you don’t even consider his arguments. Jesus exhorted us not to closely intermingle with non-believers or attempt to reach those beyond our grasp, spiritually.

 

[AlanF]

I recommend you don’t even consider his arguments. Jesus exhorted us not to closely intermingle with non-believers or attempt to reach those beyond our grasp, spiritually.

Did he? I though he told us to “make disciples of all the nations”.
Could you quote the Scripture please.

I don’t consider his arguements, but I thinks it’s good to refute things like this for christianity’s sake and for his own sake.

 

[Starwynd]

I recommend you don’t even consider his arguments. Jesus exhorted us not to closely intermingle with non-believers or attempt to reach those beyond our grasp, spiritually.

Oh baloney. Then how the hell do people expect to be saved if they don’t ehar the Word of God through His followers? in order to spread God’s message, the followers must intermingle with those unbelievers.

Jesus Himself mingled with non-believers. He even said to spread the word among them.

Holy **** the hatred many Christians feel towards non-believers is alarming, and shouldn’t be that way.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Oh baloney. Then how the hell do people expect to be saved if they don’t ehar the Word of God through His followers? in order to spread God’s message, the followers must intermingle with those unbelievers.

Jesus Himself mingled with non-believers. He even said to spread the word among them.

Holy **** the hatred many Christians feel towards non-believers is alarming, and shouldn’t be that way.

I am positive profanity…especially those about God…are totally not allowable on CAF. Please be more respectful in the future.

 

[KingAlfred]

Did he? I though he told us to “make disciples of all the nations”.
Could you quote the Scripture please.

I don’t consider his arguements, but I thinks it’s good to refute things like this for christianity’s sake and for his own sake.

Jesus: “Don’t cast your pearls amongst swine.”

Paul: “Don’t associate with non-believers.”

 

[AlanF]

Jesus: “Don’t cast your pearls amongst swine.”

Paul: “Don’t associate with non-believers.”

I don’t think this can mean all non-believers; Jesus still told us to “make disciples of all the nations”. Preaching the Kingdom of God to non-believers was the whole point of His Ministry and His founding of the Church.

 

[NotWorthy]

I don’t think this can mean all non-believers; Jesus still told us to “make disciples of all the nations”. Preaching the Kingdom of God to non-believers was the whole point of His Ministry and His founding of the Church.

I agree. I thought Paul professed against members of the Church who still practiced sinful ways.

 

[NotWorthy]

Jesus: “Don’t cast your pearls amongst swine.”

Could you please read this in context?

Paul: “Don’t associate with non-believers.”

Where does Paul say this?