C
Church_Militant
Guest
Malachi,
YOU ROCK!
YOU ROCK!
- Status
R
Rana
Guest
Very well said Malachi!!:clapping:
M
Malachi4U
Guest
Church Militant:
Thank you,
M
Malachi4U
Guest
Thank you too Rana,
D
DaveBj
Guest
James I, scoundrel though he may have been, had nothing to do with the translation and editing processes of the Bible that bears his name, other than setting the process in motion. The translation and editing processes were accomplished by genuinely pious and learned English churchmen, one of whose goals was to produce a Bible free from the anti-Catholic notes found in previous English Bibles.
I have a replica 1611 KJV, deuterocanonicals and all. It would have made an excellent Catholic Bible as well. Bear in mind that the Church of England at this time was less than a century removed from being fully Catholic.
DaveBj
U
uniChristian
Guest
Church Militant:
In My Opinion this has no bearing on salvation as the message of Christ transcends throughout the entire bible (even with the apocrypha) for all. Praise Jesus.
Jewish scholars canonized their scriptures in 90A.D. and the Apocrypha or as you say Deuterocanonicals scriptures are not included. Good point about the Alexandrine text being used to quote the Old Testament, but although Jesus quotes from the Septuagint, which does contain the Apocrypha, he never quotes from any of the books of the Apocrypha. Ask a Jew about the canonization process and you will be surprised to find that the Catholic Church is similar in that with the Jewish canon (except for the Pentateuch) it has not been closed. I looked long and hard on this subject and found that Flavious Josephus concurs, The number of books in the Old Testament most closely relate to a copy without the Apocrypha included. The Jews do not accept the Apocrypha as part of their Scriptures. Protestants do not accept the Apocrypha as Scripture, though some ascribe to them value as “good and useful reading” and “for example of life and instruction of manners.” The Roman Catholic Church in effect accepts 12 of the apocryphal books as canonical (omitting I & II Esdras and the defaulter of Manassah). Because of this the Roman Catholic ‘Church’ speaks of the Apocrypha as “deutero-canonical” books, and in turn labels as apocrypha what we may term “pseudoepigraphical” books." The Apocrypha were formally canonized by the Roman Catholic ‘Church’ on April 8, 1546 A.D. at the Council of Trent. If you will notice this 1546 date was during the reformation.
In My Opinion this has no bearing on salvation as the message of Christ transcends throughout the entire bible (even with the apocrypha) for all. Praise Jesus.
U
uniChristian
Guest
Instead of looking at our differences I like to look at what we share because he is the way the truth and the light. Differences in my opinion are only good for 1 thing and that would be for conversation. Jesus is the key to life, Amen?
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Of Course you realize that that council was non-binding & that they scarcely touched on the canon of scripture…The fact is that they STILL don’t recognize this council.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
This is patently not true my friend…
The Canon was set in 393 & 397 AD at the councils of Hippo & Carthage and the issue finally closed in 405 AD by Pope Innocent I,
The Council you mistakenly refer to is Trent and they did nothing but confirm what had already been decided. It is common for Protestant sources to mistakenly use that 1546 date in discussions w/ us, but it’s only relevent in that it & several others reaafirmed what was already set in the 4th century by the Catholic Church.
BTW…Luther removed about 4 NT books, including Revelations and James, but no one wants to discuss the failings of the reformers. If the Bible had 73 books for over 1200 years…then why change it? The fact is that Luther didn’t like certain books because they clearly conflicted w/his new doctrine of Sola Fide. He referred to the book of James as “The epistle of straw”. Good Grief!
U
uniChristian
Guest
Church Militant:
history.hanover.edu/early/tren… Notice I wrote formally canonized 4-8-1546. Check under fourth session. I agree with you about Luther and I am glad God’s truth is revealed in his Word despite mans worst efforts. I am not a Protestant as I have many problems with much of the doctrines of men. I am simply a Christian without a religion. I openly admit a genuine love for God, Yeshoua, and the Holy Spirit, and I hate the deeds of our common enemy Satan. I like to concentrate on the One thing we have in common and that is a saving faith of God’ own Son Jesus Our Lord and Savior. God Bless you. P.S. I went to see Billy Graham on the west coast and about 30,000 souls were added to the kingdom. Pray for revival and an outpouring of his Spirit as times are dark.This is patently not true my friend…
The Canon was set in 393 & 397 AD at the councils of Hippo & Carthage and the issue finally closed in 405 AD by Pope Innocent I,
The Council you mistakenly refer to is Trent and they did nothing but confirm what had already been decided. It is common for Protestant sources to mistakenly use that 1546 date in discussions w/ us, but it’s only relevent in that it & several others reaafirmed what was already set in the 4th century by the Catholic Church.
BTW…Luther removed about 4 NT books, including Revelations and James, but no one wants to discuss the failings of the reformers. If the Bible had 73 books for over 1200 years…then why change it? The fact is that Luther didn’t like certain books because they clearly conflicted w/his new doctrine of Sola Fide. He referred to the book of James as “The epistle of straw”. Good Grief!
M
Malachi4U
Guest
Indeed they are, thats why we are having this conversation.
Of course why would I want to point out flaws in the Mormon or JW or Satanists or other religions. After all they are Christians too and we’re all going to heaven. So what if they have different opinions? We’re all saved! As long as we ‘feel good’ we’re saved!
PS, I like to think of ‘He’ with respect, that is why when I speak or write of Him I use a Capitol ‘H’. It is an outward sign of my inward Faith. Like the sign of the cross or knelling, etc. I understand and show repect and worship and adoration to Him now that I am Catholic. As a protestant ‘faith alone’ was enough but now as a Catholic a living 'F’aith with fruit (deeds) flowing forth from it are a necessity for my Hope for salvation if I endure till the end. Praise God!
C
CARose
Guest
Rana,
Thank you for joining us and posting your question. I see it’s been fully answered, right down to the details of when the Canon was defined (in the Early Centuries of the Church).
As you can see, there is much desire to negate the existance of a clearly defined list of scripture. This allows for a degradation of the sacredness of the Word, all of which is profitable for teaching.
I look forward to learning more about you life in Lebanon. I have so many vague ideas as to what your life is like. I would much prefer to learn directly from you how you live on a daily basis.
I find it wonderful to learn that you come together in harmony with your fellow Christians there. I’m sorry that there are times when it is difficult to live as a minority, where your freedom to Love, Honor and Worship God might come into question. I will pray for you.
In America, we have the freedom to discuss religion openly, although it is considered “Politically Incorrect” to do so in many (perhaps most) secular social circles. For those of us who live and function in primarily protestant communities, coming here is a wonderful opportunity to talk openly and freely about things that matter to us very much.
Well, I’m glad you learned what you wanted. Hope to see you around.
God Bless,
CARose
Thank you for joining us and posting your question. I see it’s been fully answered, right down to the details of when the Canon was defined (in the Early Centuries of the Church).
As you can see, there is much desire to negate the existance of a clearly defined list of scripture. This allows for a degradation of the sacredness of the Word, all of which is profitable for teaching.
I look forward to learning more about you life in Lebanon. I have so many vague ideas as to what your life is like. I would much prefer to learn directly from you how you live on a daily basis.
I find it wonderful to learn that you come together in harmony with your fellow Christians there. I’m sorry that there are times when it is difficult to live as a minority, where your freedom to Love, Honor and Worship God might come into question. I will pray for you.
In America, we have the freedom to discuss religion openly, although it is considered “Politically Incorrect” to do so in many (perhaps most) secular social circles. For those of us who live and function in primarily protestant communities, coming here is a wonderful opportunity to talk openly and freely about things that matter to us very much.
Well, I’m glad you learned what you wanted. Hope to see you around.
God Bless,
CARose
A
ahimsaman72
Guest
Amen!
R
RebAvomai
Guest
Church Militant:
What exactly are these disagreements your hasidic buddy mentions?
U
uniChristian
Guest
Church Militant:
"You said"The fact is that they STILL don’t recognize this council: please explain this, I konow it does not pertain to the thread but I am interested why the Church would not recognize the council of Trent? Thanks
U
uniChristian
Guest
I am sure will you will endure, Paul describes it as a race, you better watch your back, I might be catching up! God bless brother.
J
jimmy
Guest
uniChristians, you don’t like to talk about differences but the problem is that these differences didn’t exist till the reformation. The church taught what it teaches now, for the last 2000 years. No one has any right to reject parts of the faith because it was given to us by Christ.
What does it mean when you say “formally canonized” because I could give you quotes from Rome, Hippo, Carthage, Trullo, and Flourence, which were all before Trent. They all define the canon including the deuterocanonicals. Trent just reaffirmed it.
What does it mean when you say “formally canonized” because I could give you quotes from Rome, Hippo, Carthage, Trullo, and Flourence, which were all before Trent. They all define the canon including the deuterocanonicals. Trent just reaffirmed it.
R
Rana
Guest
Dear CARose,
My questions have been answered, and so thoroughly, i am honestly lost
.I am glad you are interested in my country and in our way of life.
There is a misconception though that i would like to clear up. Christians have become recently a minority because of Muslim’s intensive reproduction. However, Lebanon by the constitution should have a Christian president (a Maronite). Our Archbishop and Cardinal is very strong, and his word is respected and taken into consideration always whether by Muslims or Christians.
Christians have the liberty to speak what they wish, and to practice their faith openly…Muslims won’t dare say anything concerning this matter.
The constitution binds us whether Muslims or Christians, and the rights of every sect is well kept.
It is very complicated as a system. We are secular in everything we do.
God Bless,
Rana.
R
Rana
Guest
Dear CARose,
My questions have been answered, and so thoroughly, i am honestly lost
.I am glad you are interested in my country and in our way of life.
There is a misconception though that i would like to clear up. Christians have become recently a minority because of Muslim’s intensive reproduction. However, Lebanon by the constitution should have a Christian president (We are the only Arab country with a Christian president), and we follow the Christian calendar (in addition to the fact that Sundays are off as opposed to other arab countries were fridays are off)…among other things.
Our Archbishop and Cardinal is very strong, and his word is respected and taken into consideration always whether by Muslims or Christians.
Christians have the liberty to speak what they wish, and to practice their faith openly…Muslims won’t dare say anything concerning this matter.
The constitution binds us whether Muslims or Christians, and the rights of every sect is well kept.
It is very complicated as a system. We are secular in everything we do.
Christians are however a minority in the Arab World, and all of us has got to keep our faith and presence strong. It is of a few kilometers from my city that Jesus did his first miracle in Cana during a wedding, and a few others were it was told Mary has hid with Joseph…Christian presence has to be maintained in the middle east…the land is rightfully ours as much as it is theirs.
John Paul II came to Lebanon a couple of years ago to promote this very idea…the existence and perseverance of Christians in the Middle East. It was his message for us, to be strong, not to give up and immigrate.
The Middle East could not be voided of its Christians.
God Bless,
Rana.
- Status