Bible found in the bible!

[jamil_joseph02]

is bible found in the bible? No, reply Catholics!!

but for other denominations, specifically here in the Philippines, here are just some of the answers:

[Isaiah 34:16] Look in the book of the Lord and read: No one of these shall be lacking, for the mouth of the Lord has ordered it, and his spirit shall gather them there

[Matthew 5:18] I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

[1 Corinthians 4:6] Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

[Revelation 22:18-19] I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: **If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book
**

no one shall be lacking, even the smallest letter, not go beyond what is written or you’ll be taken away from God’s share in the tree of life, they often quote these verses to prove that bible is the sole rule of faith

I believe majority of our CAF members never or rarely encounter this before, so i would be glad reading your answers.

 

[cfrancis]

Well, I for one am waiting anxiously to see “bible” in the Bible… as well as The Bible in The Bible…as well as The Bible defined in The Bible.

 

[ziapueblo]

The above quotes do not teach that the Bible is found within the Bible. It’s obvious that Scripture is important for it is one of the three ways in which God has relieved Himself to us (the others being Holy Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church).

I would respond first by reaffirming the importance of Scripture. Second I would ask, “Can you explain to me 1 Timothy 2:15, ‘But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.’ Why does St. Paul tell us that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth and not the Bible?”

Finally I would ask, “Can you explain 2 Thessalonians 2:15 St. Paul writes, ‘Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.’ Why does he write by oral statement or by letter of ours? Why not by letter of ours alone?”

Hope this is the type of response you are looking for. God bless,
ZP

p.s.

I would also ask this individual to explain Matthew 16:19. Why does Jesus give St. Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven and the authority to bind and loose? Why give him all this if the Scriptures are sufficient? Why does Jesus give the rest of the Apostles binding and loosing authority in Matthew 18:18 if Scripture is exclusive?

 

[chris_molter]

Please provide a divinely inspired Table of Contents.

Also let me know why the Shepherd of Hermas or the Gospel of Thomas isn’t in there.

 

[jamil_joseph02]

The above quotes do not teach that the Bible is found within the Bible. It’s obvious that Scripture is important for it is one of the three ways in which God has relieved Himself to us (the others being Holy Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church).

I would respond first by reaffirming the importance of Scripture. Second I would ask, “Can you explain to me 1 Timothy 2:15, ‘But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.’ Why does St. Paul tell us that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth and not the Bible?”

Finally I would ask, “Can you explain 2 Thessalonians 2:15 St. Paul writes, ‘Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.’ Why does he write by oral statement or by letter of ours? Why not by letter of ours alone?”

Hope this is the type of response you are looking for. God bless,
ZP

p.s.

I would also ask this individual to explain Matthew 16:19. Why does Jesus give St. Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven and the authority to bind and loose? Why give him all this if the Scriptures are sufficient? Why does Jesus give the rest of the Apostles binding and loosing authority in Matthew 18:18 if Scripture is exclusive?

1 Timothy 3:15? that’s also another problem. they claim the church stated in the verse was their church!

another arguement: since the apostles were already in heaven, we are to follow what was left, sacred scripture. they argue that Catholic doctrines are the doctrines made by men, we should not believe them, since Pope is our leader. they also said that our priests just add up doctrines, doctrines that are not biblical.

any response?

 

[jamil_joseph02]

Well, I for one am waiting anxiously to see “bible” in the Bible… as well as The Bible in The Bible…as well as The Bible defined in The Bible.

the bible is the word of God, and there are many verses in the bible which states we must believe in God’s word. Do you not believe that bible is the word of God?

that’s what my friend answered to me. any reply for her?

 

[DavidFilmer]

the bible is the word of God

Oh, really? Says who? Suppose I write a book that says I am the word of God. Do you believe it?

and there are many verses in the bible which states we must believe in God’s word.

So, let me get this straight. We should believe that the Bible is God’s word because the Bible says it is God’s word.

OK, got it. Give me a few minutes and I will come up with a book that says that I am God and the entire book is God’s word (ie, my own word).

Do you not believe that bible is the word of God?

I do, but it is not because I read that in the Bible. That is silly (ie, circular logic). I believe that the Bible is the Inspired Word of God ONLY because the Catholic Church assures me that it is. The Catholic Church came before the Bible (or, at least, the New Testament) was ever written, so only the Catholic Church can vouch for the Bible.

Without the Church, I would burn the Bible with other rubbish.

 

[fellowChristian]

is bible found in the bible? No, reply Catholics!!

but for other denominations, specifically here in the Philippines, here are just some of the answers:

[Isaiah 34:16] Look in the book of the Lord and read: No one of these shall be lacking, for the mouth of the Lord has ordered it, and his spirit shall gather them there

[Matthew 5:18] I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

[1 Corinthians 4:6] Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

[Revelation 22:18-19] I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: **If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book
**

no one shall be lacking, even the smallest letter, not go beyond what is written or you’ll be taken away from God’s share in the tree of life, they often quote these verses to prove that bible is the sole rule of faith

I believe majority of our CAF members never or rarely encounter this before, so i would be glad reading your answers.

I read your post, twice and I still do not see the word “Bible”. B-i-b-l-e is nowhere in those verses.

The New International Version uses the word “scroll” and

Isaiah 34:16
16 Look in the scroll of the LORD and read:
None of these will be missing,
** not one will lack her mate.**
For it is his mouth that has given the order,
and his Spirit will gather them together.

You didn’t post the whole verse and it’s not even talking about the Bible being the sole authority.

**Matthew 5:18 **(New American Standard Bible)

18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Yes Jesus said He didn’t come to abolish the Law, He came to fullfill it.He didn’t say that the Bible is the boss of the Church.

**1 Corinthians 4:6 **

6Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

Did you read the whole thing? 1 Corinthians 4? Paul talks about being servants of Christ and about not judging others or becoming arrogant. It doesn’t say that the Bible is all you need.

Revelation 22:18-19 (New American Standard Bible)

18I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;

19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

You do realize that John said “this book.” as in the
Book of Revelation. The Bible is made up of 73 different books. The Book of Revelation is one of those books in the Bible. And he doesn’t say that the Bible is the sole authority over the Church either.

We as Catholics believe in the written word of God. It was the Church, that Jesus built on Peter, that decided which books to put in the Bible at a council with bishops in the year 392a.d. before that the written word of God came in** many **scrolls.

Do you believe in the word of God?

2 Peter 1:20
But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,

 

[CWBetts]

The false doctrines of the Five Solas were invented by Martin Luther roughly 500 years ago. As a direct result of Luther’s mistakes, we have had five centuries of division and conflict within the Church. Furthermore, many adherants of the false teachings are interested in further divison as evidenced by the OP’s weak attempt to bait Catholics. His creative attempts at pulling verses out of context, without taking into consideration who the author was, who the initial audience was, or the purpose of the writing shows his utter lack of insight. I will perhaps refute his arguments if her manages tp raise one not addressed on multiple other threads.

 

[CentralFLJames]

is bible found in the bible? No, reply Catholics!!

but for other denominations, specifically here in the Philippines, here are just some of the answers:

[Isaiah 34:16] Look in the book of the Lord and read: No one of these shall be lacking, for the mouth of the Lord has ordered it, and his spirit shall gather them there

[Matthew 5:18] I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

[1 Corinthians 4:6] Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

[Revelation 22:18-19] I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: **If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book
**

no one shall be lacking, even the smallest letter, not go beyond what is written or you’ll be taken away from God’s share in the tree of life, they often quote these verses to prove that bible is the sole rule of faith

I believe majority of our CAF members never or rarely encounter this before, so i would be glad reading your answers.

Are you some kind of pope that you imagine you speak for all Filipinos Jamil? I suspect that there are about 71 million Catholic Filipinos (“Simbahang Katolika”) who would disagree with you to your face Jamil. Why did you have to come way over to a USA Catholic Website to tell us this silly idea of yours when your next door Catholic neighbor could have told you it is wrong?

Jesus is the complete and total Living Word of God. He does not exist in a Book and can be found in the Eucharist at any Catholic Mass in the world and in the Catholic Church at large.

James

 

[jb80]

James,

I may have misunderstood, but I think Jamil is wondering what his response would be to someone who made these allegations. I don’t think he is actually the one claiming this.

Jamil,

I think the advice in here has been very good so far. One thing I would add is Yes! Catholics absolutely believe that the Bible is God’s word. In fact, the Catholic Church gave us the canon of the Bible.

However, we have to remember that the Bible isn’t just one book, it’s actually a collection of 73 different books. How do we know that all inspired books made it into the Bible since some people wanted other books to be included (As mentioned earlier The Shepard and The Gospel of Thomas)? Also how do we know every book is inspired since some of them were disputed(Such as Revelations, James etc)?

Basically, what I’m getting at is that there is not a table of contents listed in Scripture. This means the authority that decides what books are in the Bible is not the Bible itself (which wouldn’t make sense anyway). So on what authority is the canon of the Bible placed if they claim that no authority exists outside the Bible?

These are questions someone who doesn’t believe in the authority of the Church will have a hard time answering. As mentioned before, Catholics do believe in the authority of the Bible (when interpreted correctly, which is another point ). But we also believe in the teaching authority of the Church and Sacred Tradition.

Hopefully this helps,

God Bless!

 

[CentralFLJames]

James,

I may have misunderstood, but I think Jamil is wondering what his response would be to someone who made these allegations. I don’t think he is actually the one claiming this.

Opps, sorry Jamil.
Can someone with the charism please kindly reattach the severed ear and heal him?

… returning my sword to its scabbard.

James

 

[Mannyfit75]

is bible found in the bible? No, reply Catholics!!

but for other denominations, specifically here in the Philippines, here are just some of the answers:

[Isaiah 34:16] Look in the book of the Lord and read: No one of these shall be lacking, for the mouth of the Lord has ordered it, and his spirit shall gather them there

[Matthew 5:18] I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

[1 Corinthians 4:6] Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

[Revelation 22:18-19] I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: **If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book
**

no one shall be lacking, even the smallest letter, not go beyond what is written or you’ll be taken away from God’s share in the tree of life, they often quote these verses to prove that bible is the sole rule of faith

I believe majority of our CAF members never or rarely encounter this before, so i would be glad reading your answers.

The word Bible is no where found in the Bible. There is the word Book or Scripture but not Bible in the full context.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Are you some kind of pope that you imagine you speak for all Filipinos Jamil? I suspect that there are about 71 million Catholic Filipinos (“Simbahang Katolika”) who would disagree with you to your face Jamil. Why did you have to come way over to a USA Catholic Website to tell us this silly idea of yours when your next door Catholic neighbor could have told you it is wrong?

Jesus is the complete and total Living Word of God. He does not exist in a Book and can be found in the Eucharist at any Catholic Mass in the world and in the Catholic Church at large.

James

I’m Filipino Catholic and I affirm that the Catholic Church is the only sole interpreter of Scripture and Tradition.

 

[GrahamCE]

[Isaiah 34:16] Look in the book of the Lord and read: No one of these shall be lacking, for the mouth of the Lord has ordered it, and his spirit shall gather them there

I’m new at this, so forgive me if I go awry here! If I look at this verse in Isaiah, I would not find Bible here as the other posters said. Since Isaiah is an Old Testament book (written before 600 BC), I would argue that when it says “Book of the Lord”, it is referring to the inspired Jewish book of law (Torah or other set of inspired Jewish texts used at that time - sorry I’m not a historian.) If we were to look at Isaiah’s “Book of the Lord”, we would be excluding everthing that came after, namely the New Testament.

Also want to agree with fellowChristan about Revelation. If I were writing a book, I wouldn’t know that what I am writing may be included in a set of books later. My reference to “this book” would only be applicable to the book that I’m writing - not to an unknown set of books that I may be included with after I am long gone.

-GrahamCE

 

[porthos11]

the bible is the word of God, and there are many verses in the bible which states we must believe in God’s word. Do you not believe that bible is the word of God?

that’s what my friend answered to me. any reply for her?

Then say, “what if I don’t? Prove to me that the Bible is the Word of God”.

Do not concede the point that the Bible is the Word of God. Ask him to prove it. Specifically, he must prove, using Bible Alone, of course, that the 39 Old Testament books and 27 New Testament books are the Word of God (it isn’t in the Bible, that’s for sure, but don’t tell him that yet).

He will quote what you already mentioned, but point out that the only Scriptures that were written at that time were just the Old Testament, and the New Testament had not yet been completed. Do not just “agree” that the Bible is the Word of God. He makes the assertion, he must prove it.

 

[ziapueblo]

The above quotes do not teach that the Bible is found within the Bible. It’s obvious that Scripture is important for it is one of the three ways in which God has relieved Himself to us (the others being Holy Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church).

I would respond first by reaffirming the importance of Scripture. Second I would ask, “Can you explain to me 1 Timothy 3:15, ‘But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.’ Why does St. Paul tell us that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth and not the Bible?”

Finally I would ask, “Can you explain 2 Thessalonians 2:15 St. Paul writes, ‘Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.’ Why does he write by oral statement or by letter of ours? Why not by letter of ours alone?”

Hope this is the type of response you are looking for. God bless,
ZP

p.s.

I would also ask this individual to explain Matthew 16:19. Why does Jesus give St. Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven and the authority to bind and loose? Why give him all this if the Scriptures are sufficient? Why does Jesus give the rest of the Apostles binding and loosing authority in Matthew 18:18 if Scripture is exclusive?

 

[ziapueblo]

1 Timothy 3:15? that’s also another problem. they claim the church stated in the verse was their church!

another arguement: since the apostles were already in heaven, we are to follow what was left, sacred scripture. they argue that Catholic doctrines are the doctrines made by men, we should not believe them, since Pope is our leader. they also said that our priests just add up doctrines, doctrines that are not biblical.

any response?

Oops, your right, 1 Timothy 3:15. Thanks,

 

[jamil_joseph02]

Are you some kind of pope that you imagine you speak for all Filipinos Jamil? I suspect that there are about 71 million Catholic Filipinos (“Simbahang Katolika”) who would disagree with you to your face Jamil. Why did you have to come way over to a USA Catholic Website to tell us this silly idea of yours when your next door Catholic neighbor could have told you it is wrong?

Jesus is the complete and total Living Word of God. He does not exist in a Book and can be found in the Eucharist at any Catholic Mass in the world and in the Catholic Church at large.

James

FOR YOUR INFORMATION I didn’t made these arguements, they are the arguements of other non-Catholic religions in our country. And still, they continue to deceive the 71 million Catholic Filipinos. And I’m posting these what you call “silly ideas of mine” so I can get some advice, answers, or even techniques from our CAF members so the next time I encounter these again I know what to answer. I prefer this website because apologetics is much better here. that’s why this forum is called apologetics, its purpose is to defend the faith. Now you understand that?

 

[CentralFLJames]

FOR YOUR INFORMATION I didn’t made these arguements, they are the arguements of other non-Catholic religions in our country. And still, they continue to deceive the 71 million Catholic Filipinos. And I’m posting these what you call “silly ideas of mine” so I can get some advice, answers, or even techniques from our CAF members so the next time I encounter these again I know what to answer. I prefer this website because apologetics is much better here. that’s why this forum is called apologetics, its purpose is to defend the faith. Now you understand that?

Yes, Jamil, somone explained that to me earlier. I apologize. I thought you were a non-Catholic Filipino.

James