Bible Origins

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I know that the Holy Bible was born from the heart of the Catholic Church. I hear the name Saint Irenaeus of Lyons. I saw in a book that the bible was made inside the Catholic Church in a very slow manner. I am always being asked, “Why do you say that the Bible came from the Catholic Church?” they say that the Bible already exist even before the “Catholic Church” was born. I’m Catholic, I told them that the Catholic Church was there before the Bible. Then they say that even the first catholics don’t baptize infants, they don’t pray to Mary, etc etc. 😦 I know they are wrong, I’ve seen sources before but right now I am looking for one.
  1. Do you have sources/links that I can read clearly that the Bible Originated inside the catholic Church?
  2. Is there any oldest written scriptures about praying to the Blessed Mother and other Catholic Practice that are not what they called, “Biblical”?
 
The best place to start is a book called Where We Got the Bible, by Bishop Henry Graham.
It is an easy read that will give you lots of good points.

I also recommend the recording from John Martignoni called ‘Which came first, the Church or the bible?’ He also has some great talks on Mary and the saints. All the talks are free to download. You can find his website here. John’s talks got me started in how to answer challenges to the Catholic faith.
 
Is there any other source in the internet that is not .mp3?
 
Yes, the bible came from the catholic church. It is well known fact that Peter was a catholic and went to church and it is him that is the head of the church, so from the beginning they built churches and told people about the pope (Peter was the first pope).

Luke and John and all the other apostles were catholics and they wrote the rest of the bible and they met together (although they hadn’t moved to Rome yet). So the bible was written by our holy mother the church and although Jesus started out a Jew he finished his life as a catholic and all his apostles were catholic.

The people that say otherwise just don’t know their history.
 
I know that the Holy Bible was born from the heart of the Catholic Church. I hear the name Saint Irenaeus of Lyons. I saw in a book that the bible was made inside the Catholic Church in a very slow manner. I am always being asked, “Why do you say that the Bible came from the Catholic Church?” they say that the Bible already exist even before the “Catholic Church” was born. I’m Catholic, I told them that the Catholic Church was there before the Bible. Then they say that even the first catholics don’t baptize infants, they don’t pray to Mary, etc etc. 😦 I know they are wrong, I’ve seen sources before but right now I am looking for one.
  1. Do you have sources/links that I can read clearly that the Bible Originated inside the catholic Church?
  2. Is there any oldest written scriptures about praying to the Blessed Mother and other Catholic Practice that are not what they called, “Biblical”?
Catholic Answers has various tracts on different subjects concerning the faith. I would refer you to their library where you will find the answers you seek in a downloadable format.
 
hi, i have slow internet connection. will you please post it here, the links. thanks.

like what i said from above, i heard about st. ireaneus’ contribution in making the bible the way we know it today, he is one of the first people who examined the true scriptures. i just want more info, that’s all. 👍 thanks for your replies!
 
The Bible came out of the Catholic Church around the end of the 4th century. The Synods of Hippo, 393 A.D., and Carthage, 397 A.D.,and later, Carthage 419 A.D., ( along with the Traditional Bible or Latin Vulgate, 406 A.D., by Saint Jerome ),gave us the canon of Sacred Scripture as Catholics know it today. Relatively recent archeological findings and analysis of the Dead Sea scrolls (Qumran) of 1947 revealed that several deuterocanonical books were originally composed in Hebrew or Aramaic. This is very relevant and significant because earlier Protestant reformers of the 16th century, were very suspicious of, and rejected books, only available to them in the Greek Language.

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Where did the bible come from.
The bible came from the mouth of God, for the children of God.

[2 Peter 1:20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in the old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

This verse teaches that every single page of the bible, from Gen to Rev, was spoken by God, and the scribe who penned the scripture, was moved by the Holy Spirit to write. All of it came from God, The bible is one continuious book, one teaching. Each book of the bible is part of a larger book called the “bible” Its one long book. And all of it was written by the scribes, the holy pious men, who were moved by the Holy Spirit to write Gods word.

Jeremiah 36 (King James Version)
1And it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that this word came unto Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,

**2Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee **against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day I spake unto thee, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day.

4Then Jeremiah called Baruch the son of Neriah: and Baruch wrote from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the LORD, which he had spoken unto him, upon a roll of a book.

This chapter in the bible, Jer, teaches us how exactly the bible was written. This is from the mouth of God, so we have it on good authority that the bible was spoken by God, which Jerimaih recieved, and was transcribed by Baruch, as Jerimiah relayed what God had said.

This teaching is from the bible is important to recognize when discussing where the bible came from.

The bible came from God. Consider Moses, the first written word was scribbed by Moses as he recieved it from God, the word spoken for God was for the nation of Israel, which is a picture of the church age. The nation of Israel was Gods chosen people, and He used Israel to achieve His purpose, The nation of Israel can be considered the first church, thousands of years before Catholic.

Thousands of years later, to complete Gods purpose, God, in the person of Jesus, became a great shame for us and sacrificed His body, taking upon Himself every sin of every person, HE CAME TO SAVE. Ie, the chosen, the elect, the predestinated. 50 days later of penticost, when Peter preached and the Holy Spirit was sent and about 3000 men were saved, is the beginning of the New testament church, which many like to call the catholic church. this was 33ad.

in 95Ad when John, being prisoned on the island of Patmos, penned the final verse in the bible and thus the era of revelation is complete.

So there were many pages scattered about, many pages which are all from the mouth of God, spoken by God to the scribe who was moved to write by the Holy Spirit.

The New testament church, ie the catholic church, had the priveledge of stacking the pages on top of each other and binding it into one source.

This does not mean the bible came from the catholic church. It means those men were moved by God to do Gods purpose, which is what we have today as the Holy bible.

all the credit goes to God.
 
EnterCanaan, the Catholic Church says that the Bible was inspired by God, but written by men. God did not “dictate” the Bible. If He had, it would be consistent throughout. It is not. It was written over a long period of time, using different literary genres, written through the capabilities and understanding of the humans who penned the books.

Jesus gave the Catholic Church His authority and promised to send the Holy Spirit to “guide it into all truth.” It is through this authority, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, that the Catholic Church declared which books belonged in the Bible and which did not. There were more than 300 documents that the Church had to discern from which they created the New Testament. That’s why we don’t have a Gospel of Thomas, or a Gospel of Peter, in the Bible, even though they existed.

The Catholic Church is not a mere “organization.” It is the Body of Christ, through which Christ works to save mankind. It is His instrument, created for us sinners. 🙂
 
Where did the bible come from.
The bible came from the mouth of God, for the children of God.
…through the pens of men.

The Catholic church complied the bible. It was the bishops of the Catholic church, who through prayer, were guided to make sure the the written Word was maintained. The bible as you hold in your hand today was not final for nearly 350 years after the resurrection of Christ.

There is one more very critical point to remember, but let me pose a question:
Have you ever read or heard of the Didache?
 
…through the pens of men.

The Catholic church complied the bible. It was the bishops of the Catholic church, who through prayer, were guided to make sure the the written Word was maintained. The bible as you hold in your hand today was not final for nearly 350 years after the resurrection of Christ.

There is one more very critical point to remember, but let me pose a question:
Have you ever read or heard of the Didache?
to answer your question, No, I don’t know what that is.

to further emphasis my point, let me again copy these verses for the dear readers.

Jeremiah 36 (King James Version)
1And it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that this word came unto Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,

**2Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee **against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day I spake unto thee, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day.

4Then Jeremiah called Baruch the son of Neriah: and Baruch wrote from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the LORD, which he had spoken unto him, upon a roll of a book.

This is our example, to teach us how the bible was penned. The scribes, such as paul, such as john such as daniel, such as moses, all recieved revelation FROM GOD, FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD.

Read the bible verse that is from the bible that teaches how the bible was written, AND TRUST IN IT dear readers.

I don’t understand the two posters after my initial post, what point are you provin, in all charity my friends, how can you counter a bible teaching with your own understanding as you see it.

Your understanding is flawed, it is human,

my understanding, that which i copied and pasted for you dear readers, is perfect and from the mouth of God. these are not my words, this is not interpreted strangely. this is clear teaching, given for example showing us exactly how the bible was made. And that is from the mouth of God, to the man who scribed the words spoken to Him.

God spoke to Jeremiah,

Jeremiah spoke to Baruch,

Baruch scribed the Word that was spoken to him.

That is the example the bible gives, from generation to generation, it is the same, all revelation comes from God,

[2 Peter 1:20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in the old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

again, for you dear readers who can look at this, and then never give it a second thought, instead trusting in what you already know as truth, well then that is not trusting in the word of God and that is not a child of God.

2Peter 1:20;;;from cover to cover, nothing is from the mind of a man. No man out of the recesses of his brain, wrote the word of God. From cover to cover, all revelation, is given by God, to man, who is MOVED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT TO WRITE.

that is plain as day, yet the two posters responding to me deemed it unneccesary to consider these verses that teach biblical truth.

Read Jeremiah 36 all the way through. It is the same then as it was in 95ad on the island of Patmos for the John, the revelation is given from the mouth of God, and the scribe copied what was given to him.

Rest assured, this teaches that all scripture is the word of God, from cover to cover.

God is the alpha and omega, He knows the beginning from the end, the revelation as we have it, meaning the word of God, ie the bible, is ONE CONTINUOUS BOOK.

Look at the original Hebrew and Greek. It is one continuous teaching, no page breaks, no paragrahs, no spaces, no punctuation, no verse numberes, no chapter headings, it is one continuous book.

IE “take thee a roll of a book”

Which book is in question here, it is called the bible, the word of God.

here is the same language:

Exodus 17:14
And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

Exodus 24:7
And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.

Deuteronomy 17:18
And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:

Isaiah 29:11
And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

Daniel 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Revelation 5:1
And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book[the very same book that Daniel sealed] written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

Revelation 5:2
And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

Revelation 5:5
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the

Revelation 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Revelation 22:10
And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
 
to answer your question, no, i don’t know what that is.

To further emphasis my point, let me again copy these verses for the dear readers.

Jeremiah 36 (king james version)
1and it came to pass in the fourth year of jehoiakim the son of josiah king of judah, that this word came unto jeremiah from the lord, saying,

**2take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that i have spoken unto thee **against israel, and against judah, and against all the nations, from the day i spake unto thee, from the days of josiah, even unto this day.

4then jeremiah called baruch the son of neriah: And baruch wrote from the mouth of jeremiah all the words of the lord, which he had spoken unto him, upon a roll of a book.

This is our example, to teach us how the bible was penned. The scribes, such as paul, such as john such as daniel, such as moses, all recieved revelation from god, from the mouth of god.

Read the bible verse that is from the bible that teaches how the bible was written, and trust in it dear readers.

I don’t understand the two posters after my initial post, what point are you provin, in all charity my friends, how can you counter a bible teaching with your own understanding as you see it.

Your understanding is flawed, it is human,

my understanding, that which i copied and pasted for you dear readers, is perfect and from the mouth of god. These are not my words, this is not interpreted strangely. This is clear teaching, given for example showing us exactly how the bible was made. And that is from the mouth of god, to the man who scribed the words spoken to him.

God spoke to jeremiah,

jeremiah spoke to baruch,

baruch scribed the word that was spoken to him.

That is the example the bible gives, from generation to generation, it is the same, all revelation comes from god,

[2 peter 1:20] knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] for the prophecy came not in the old time by the will of man: But holy men of god spake as they were moved by the holy ghost.

Again, for you dear readers who can look at this, and then never give it a second thought, instead trusting in what you already know as truth, well then that is not trusting in the word of god and that is not a child of god.

2peter 1:20;;;from cover to cover, nothing is from the mind of a man. No man out of the recesses of his brain, wrote the word of god. From cover to cover, all revelation, is given by god, to man, who is moved by the holy spirit to write.

That is plain as day, yet the two posters responding to me deemed it unneccesary to consider these verses that teach biblical truth.

Read jeremiah 36 all the way through. It is the same then as it was in 95ad on the island of patmos for the john, the revelation is given from the mouth of god, and the scribe copied what was given to him.

Rest assured, this teaches that all scripture is the word of god, from cover to cover.

God is the alpha and omega, he knows the beginning from the end, the revelation as we have it, meaning the word of god, ie the bible, is one continuous book.

Look at the original hebrew and greek. It is one continuous teaching, no page breaks, no paragrahs, no spaces, no punctuation, no verse numberes, no chapter headings, it is one continuous book.

Ie “take thee a roll of a book”

which book is in question here, it is called the bible, the word of god.

Here is the same language:

Exodus 17:14
and the lord said unto moses, write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of joshua: For i will utterly put out the remembrance of amalek from under heaven.

Exodus 24:7
and he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: And they said, all that the lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.

Deuteronomy 17:18
and it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the levites:

Isaiah 29:11
and the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, read this, i pray thee: And he saith, i cannot; for it is sealed:

Daniel 12:4
but thou, o daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Revelation 5:1
and i saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book[the very same book that daniel sealed] written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

Revelation 5:2
and i saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

Revelation 5:5
and one of the elders saith unto me, weep not: Behold, the lion of the tribe of judah, the root of david, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the

revelation 5:9
and they sung a new song, saying, thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: For thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to god by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

revelation 22:10
and he saith unto me, seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: For the time is at hand.
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Hi everyone!

It’s been such a long time since I was here at CAF! To answer the OP, there is a Catholic book by Frances Hogan entitled “CAN YOU TRUST THE BIBLE?”

The book is downloadable for free at: franceshogan.com/en/books/Can%20you%20trust%20the%20bible.pdf

There’s also a good presentation from Josh McDowell in his book “The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict.”

God bless you all!
 
Just speaking with a young man and he’s like I know my church broke off from the Catholic Church but so what?

So entercanaan knows that the Bible is written by men…and maybe he thinks so what? It sounds like his focus is just on that it was written by God and that’s all that matters?

But maybe if he learns that men, inspired by God, decided which books & letters would help make up the book that he loves so much around 392 a.d. was later changed by another man after 1517 a.d. And now the book he carries is alittle bit lighter? Say 7 books lighter. Do you think then that maybe he would care about the origins?

entercanaan~

Yes very important God spoke. The other posts are talking about the part where men wrote.

The question is about the bounded book you hold in your hands. Does it contain all that God intended for you to have? Or is it 7 books lighter?

*During the Reformation, primarily for doctrinal reasons, Protestants removed seven books from the Old Testament: 1 and 2 Maccabees, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, Tobit, and Judith, and parts of two others, Daniel and Esther. They did so even though these books had been regarded as canonical since the beginning of Church history.

From Catholic Answers
catholic.com/library/Old_Testament_Canon.asp*
 
Your understanding is flawed, it is human,

my understanding, that which i copied and pasted for you dear readers, is perfect and from the mouth of God. these are not my words, this is not interpreted strangely. this is clear teaching, given for example showing us exactly how the bible was made. And that is from the mouth of God, to the man who scribed the words spoken to Him.
Please prayerfully reconsider your statement. If your understanding is “perfect” as you claim, then every human being in the world should elevate you to the “perfect interpreter of scripture.”

It is your “personal interpretation” of scripture that is flawed. Nobody is disputing the verses you have copied word for word. Please provide the exact “chapter and verse” to answer the following questions:
  1. Where in the Bible does it give an inspired list of the books of the Bible?
  2. Where in the Bible does it tell you which Bible to use? Eg. Jehovah Witness Bible, Mormon Bible, NIV Bible?
  3. Where in the Bible does it use the word “Bible?”
  4. Where in the Bible does it say the humans who made copies of the original text would never make a mistake?
  5. Where in the Bible does it say the “you” are the perfect interpreter of scripture?
Read Jeremiah 36 all the way through. It is the same then as it was in 95ad on the island of Patmos for the John, the revelation is given from the mouth of God, and the scribe copied what was given to him.

Rest assured, this teaches that all scripture is the word of God, from cover to cover.
Where in the Bible does it give a list of “ALL” text that is to be considered scripture?
Where in the Bible does it say “from cover to cover?” The statement is your personal interpretation.

God bless.
 
to answer your question, No, I don’t know what that is.
The Didache is a book that is also know as the Teaching of the Apostles. Is a very early Christan book that was consider canonical by some early Christian, but not by others. There are other books that have the same history. The pro-evangelium of James and the Epistles of Clement share the same story.

Why are those books not in the bible?

The reason they are not in the bible is because at the Synods of Hippo, 393 A.D., and Carthage, 397 A.D.,and later, Carthage 419 A.D, the bishops did not find that they were indeed the authentic Word of God.

So, why does all this matter?

It matters because the bible you hold in your hand today is there because of the authority of the Catholic church. If you fail to accept that athority, then you must fail to accept that the bible in you hands is complete. What if the Didache really is scripture and we Catholics blew it?. You will need to go back and find every piece of writing that was considered scripture and decide if it is the Word of God.

Do you think God would allow His people to led astray for over 1,500 years? These are some practical points to consider.

So how do you know that your bible isn’t missing any books that God wanted in there?
 
Follow-up question: Since Orthodox say Catholics split from them and not the reverse, they say they are the ones who gave us the Bible. I’m not sure how to answer that. Suggestions?
 
Follow-up question: Since Orthodox say Catholics split from them and not the reverse, they say they are the ones who gave us the Bible. I’m not sure how to answer that. Suggestions?
The critical point, at least in the thread, is that the bible was compiled by group of men, guided by the Holy Spirit. To add in the Orthodox schisms really changes the question to which group of men, guided by the Holy Spirit, compiled the bible with the fact that it happened that way to be assumed.

I think that angle should be considered a separate thread. I having enough trouble as it is! 😃
 
Yes, the bible came from the catholic church. It is well known fact that Peter was a catholic and went to church and it is him that is the head of the church, so from the beginning they built churches and told people about the pope (Peter was the first pope).

Luke and John and all the other apostles were catholics and they wrote the rest of the bible and they met together (although they hadn’t moved to Rome yet). So the bible was written by our holy mother the church and although Jesus started out a Jew he finished his life as a catholic and all his apostles were catholic.

The people that say otherwise just don’t know their history.
Cashue: The Lord Jesus Christ is Head of the Church. Ephesians 1:22, 23.

Hope this helps.

QC
 
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