Bible passages/what are they saying?

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Justin_A

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This thread is for anyone ho would like to discous, or has questions about bible passages.

I for one, can’t answere all the questions personaly because I dont have all the answeres, but maybe others on this thread can.

I have a question of my own. How to prove that genesis 3:15-17 is in fact talking about the sinlessness of Mary, the mother of God.
 
I believe mostly in your second answer choice, but also a bit in your first. I believe the Bible does speak to us as individuals, in the context of our being Catholic. It’s a quiet voice within the Church, speaking softly to the individual in need of guidance and inspiration from that particular source. Again, it’s part of the composite of our faith. That doesn’t mean the indvidual should read the Bible and then strike out on his own, theologically speaking, or make decisions that violate Catholic precepts. Everything is part of the great, yet expansive, unity called CATHOLICISM.👍
 
Some have called the Bible a mirror. Reflecting to us our strenths and shortcomings as they relate to our relationship to God.
 
in the NT we read one is to be dead to sin yet if we say we have no sin the truth is not in us…to be dead to sin means one sins no more??yet if we sin no more then we have not sin??
 
I agree that the bible can have personal meanings, but I was talking more about how protostants view scripture reading. My question was how many catholics think the same thing.
 
Justin_A said:
This thread is for anyone ho would like to discous, or has questions about bible passages.

I for one, can’t answere all the questions personaly because I dont have all the answeres, but maybe others on this thread can.

I have a question of my own. How to prove that genesis 3:15-17 is in fact talking about the sinlessness of Mary, the mother of God.
Click to expand...

As to Gen. 3.15-17 - it’s not talking about that at all. Mary is not in view in those verses - still less are any of her privileges. She seems to be, only if one goes by the defective reading in the Vulgate that mistranslates the Hebrew. And one can prefer the Vulgate to the Hebrew only if the Hebrew is wrong & the Vulgate is correct; or if the Vulgate is, at least in those verses, inspired & inerrant. Which there is no reason to believe.​

Seeing the BVM in every other verse of the OT is making it refer to her for no better reason than that she is important to the people reading the texts - regardless of what the composers or editors of the text may have intended to say to their readers. That makes the Bible into a message not for those for whom it was immediately intended, but for Christians centuries later. This makes Divine Scripture into a species of automatic writing, totally irrelevant to its intended audience.

If waffles became important to Bible readers, they would see waffles prophesied instead. The Bible is thus put at the mercy of whatever interests those reading it may have, & the result is that the Bible becomes no more than a jumble of texts for us to use for own purposes.

The way to avoid seeing waffles where they are not, or the BVM where she is not, or anything else where it is not, is to start by asking what the text is likely to have meant when first interpreted. Otherwise the words become expressions of our own fancies, & not of what God intends by them.
 
I had just seen those verses in a opalogetic atempt to defend and explain the sinlessness of Mary. And was wondering how to axplain it to someone if it were in fact usable in that way.
I love apologetics.
 
There was a kind of profacy there however when it says:“He shal strike at your heel and you shall crush his head, and i will put emnity between your offspring and hers.” It could go deeper than that. It could (and I dont know church teaching on eny of this) that when Christ died and defeated death, he also reduced and "crushed Satans power and control. My poist is that even thow it is in genesis were Adam and Eve are found, much of the bible are not an actual time line, many thoelogians and opologists have stated this. So cuold it even be possible that it’s talking about Mary and not Eve?
 
Justin_A said:
I agree that the bible can have personal meanings, but I was talking more about how protostants view scripture reading. My question was how many catholics think the same thing.
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A lot might believe in something very similar because they don’t know how the Bible fits into Catholicism. In general, we don’t spend enough time as a church talking about the Bible. Meanwhile, Protestants obsess over it, such that their adherents don’t know anything else.:knight1:
 
I think that as catholics, if we spent more time as a family or as a comunity, learnig about thede things, that we would’nt have as many issues as we do. However, we are ( in my opinion) kind of handycaped here because many people ho teach the faith, dont teach it dogmaticly. They mix in their beliefs and just confeuse and mislead otherwise good knowlagable catholics as to what the actual teaching is.
 
you do what you all want then beliefes are aload to be theifed away as i have stolen from the deapths of hell to fill my pockets with pearls of rust beliefes as it is written dont give your pears to swine they will chew it up and spit it out. i say this if any so called religion cares to intergrate share or allow me to steal a beliefe i will take many and all and have the biggest hold of beliefe structure used within a religion that nota stand in my way.

this is my walk of life i fear nothing that stands in my way for my path has lead me side by side with god out of the reach of fear tears or danger a path i purpose only saints might follow only those that are warriors of the faith have a chance at such a path
 
Justin_A said:
There was a kind of profacy there however when it says:“He shal strike at your heel and you shall crush his head, and i will put emnity between your offspring and hers.” It could go deeper than that. It could (and I dont know church teaching on eny of this) that when Christ died and defeated death, he also reduced and "crushed Satans power and control. My poist is that even thow it is in genesis were Adam and Eve are found, much of the bible are not an actual time line, many thoelogians and opologists have stated this. So cuold it even be possible that it’s talking about Mary and not Eve?
Click to expand...
to fully understand the OT we must read it in terms of types. Typology shows many NT doctrines, including Mary’s privlidges clearly revealed in the OT. A type is a prophetic foreshadowing of its NT counterpart. The CCC has a brief but excellent section on OT types in numbers 128-130.
consider this:
In Mathew 12:40 Jesus teaches that Jonah’s three days in the belly of the great fish foreshadowed Jesus’ three days in the tomb.
John 3:14 Jesus says the bronze serpent of numbers 21:9 symbolized His crucifixion.
St. Peter points out that the flood in the time of noah prefigured Christian baptism (1 Peter 3:19-21)
In Romans 5:14, St. Paul specifically calls Adam a type of Christ.

These examples show how the NT teaches that in the OT persons and events, we are to see doctrines that are made more explicit in the Gospels.

There are three major OT types of Mary: Eve, the Ark of the Covenant, and the Queen Mother.
Gen 3: 15-17 After Adam and Eve have sinned, this passage prophesies a woman and her son who will be at total enmity (complete and total opposition!! keep that in mind) with the serpent (satan) and his descendents:
“I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers: He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel” NAB.
The woman’s son will crush the head of the serpent. Since the man who crushes the serpent’s head is obviously Jesus, who would the woman be? The woman must be Mary.
Genesis 3:15-17 describes two teams: The fall team-Adam and Eve
and the redemption team- Jesus and Mary. the early church fathers such as St. Irenaeus, and St. Justin were quick to realize this. Although the human race fell through Adam, Eve played a crucial role. Jesus redeemed the human race, but Mary’s role was likewise crucial. Sacred scripture continuously shows Jesus and Mary togethar in the pivotal events in our salvation. I can point you to those also if you need. God Bless.
 
I accept the doctrine of the Church when it comes to interpreting Bible passages and such. 🙂
 
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