Hi Everyone:
I was invited here by a friend and I’ve been reading a few posts on the thread, so if I say something that has already been said, please excuse me and feel free to tell me to shut up.
I see some legitimate concerns here on all sides of this dicussion. Before I comment on them. I would like to clarify a matter of dogma. There was a point mentoned about salvation outside the Church. Let me start with that.
Vatican II was very clear that the fulness of truth resides only within the Catholic Church. This was not new in any sense. The Council wanted to restate what has been part of our Tradition to ensure that it is never forgotten as we move toward unity with those of other faiths. The fullness of truth cannot be abandoned. John Paul II reiterated the same thing in his encyclical Ut Unum Sint.
The faith of the Catholic Church is that there is no salvation outside the Church.
That being said, the Church invites us to consider this truth as well.
**Indeed, the elements of sanctification and truth present in the other Christian Communities, in a degree which varies from one to the other, constitute the objective basis of the communion, albeit imperfect, which exists between them and the Catholic Church.
To the extent that these elements are found in other Christian Communities, the one Church of Christ is effectively present in them.**
Even though there is not the fulness of truth in other Christian communities, whatever truths exist there are Catholic, because all truth is Catholic. Jesus can use these truths as a means to salvation.
It is inaccurate to say that there is salvation outside the Church. There is not. However, fortunatey for Protestants and others, many have preserved some or many Catholic Truths. These Catholic truths can serve as a means of salvation to those who believe them and are faithful to them.
**The Constitution Lumen Gentium, in a fundamental affirmation echoed by the Decree Unitatis Redintegratio,[141] states that the one Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church.[142] The Decree on Ecumenism emphasizes the presence in her of the fullness (plenitudo) of the means of salvation.[143] Full unity will come about when all share in the fullness of the means of salvation entrusted by Christ to his Church. ** (Parr 86)
Pope John Paul reminds us that true Ecumenism is not about changing what we believe. That does not mean that we cannot state (formulate) doctrine in a way that is clearer for those who are not Catholic and even for the younger generation of Catholics who no longer speak the same language as that which is used in some doctrinal statements. In other words, some statements were written so long ago, that the wording no longer means the same in our time. It is legitimate to restate doctrine in language that people of other faith understand. It is never legitimate to modify the doctrine to fit the needs of time, place or audience. There is a difference. When studying scripture with Reformation Christians, Catholics must always find a means to understand what they understand and try their best to explain what we know to be the truth, even if we have to change the wording, but not chaning the meaning.
the Decree on Ecumenism mentions the way of formulating doctrine as one of the elements of a continuing reform.[32] Here it is not a question of altering the deposit of faith, changing the meaning of dogmas, eliminating essential words from them, accommodating truth to the preferences of a particular age, or suppressing certain articles of the Creed under the false pretext that they are no longer understood today. The unity willed by God can be attained only by the adherence of all to the content of revealed faith in its entirety. In matters of faith, compromise is in contradiction with God who is Truth. (Parr 18)
Saints Cyril and Methodius labored to translate the ideas of the Bible and the concepts of Greek theology in the context of very different historical experiences and ways of thinking. They wanted the one word of God to be “made accessible in each civilization’s own forms of expression”. (Parr 19)
In our common search for God, the dialogue between Catholics and Reformation Christians has to be respectful of each person’s dignity, Catholic and Protestant. Each side must be willing to listen to what they believe is to be the truth. Catholics must remain faithful to the Truth as it subsists within the Catholic Church. We certainly have an obligation to share the truth as it it was handed down by the Church through generations. However, each person is free to assent to the truth. We cannot violate the Church’s teaching on the individual’s right to religious freedom. We cannot impose assent or demand it.
** “Truth is to be sought after in a manner proper to the dignity of the human person and his social nature. The inquiry is to be free, carried on with the aid of teaching or instruction, communication, and dialogue. In the course of these, people explain to one another the truth they have discovered, or think they have discovered, in order thus to assist one another in the quest for truth. Moreover, as the truth is discovered, it is by a personal assent that individuals are to adhere to it”** (Parr 32)
The Church also requires that we refrain from using terms that are offensive to people of other faiths. Reformation Christians are not heretics, infidel, apostates or other such terms. The founders who broke away from the Church were morally guilty of these sins, but not those who were born into these communities. Therefore, we must be careful when disagreement arises to avoid insulting. At the same time, we must respectful of our own Catholic dignity and we need not allow others to offend us or the Catholic Church. The respect must be mutual. When we are disrespected, it is time to politely leave.
**With regard to the study of areas of disagreement, the Council requires that the whole body of doctrine be clearly presented. At the same time, it asks that the manner and method of expounding the Catholic faith should not be a hindrance to dialogue with our brothers and sisters.[62] Certainly it is possible to profess one’s faith and to explain its teaching in a way that is correct, fair and understandable, and which at the same time takes into account both the way of thinking and the actual historical experiences of the other party. ** (Parr 36)
In the end, the purpose of joint scripture studies, should be to explore truth and to pray for the spiritual gifts that we find through the scriptures. This is encouraged by the Catholic Church as long as the person understands that interpretations of the Scriptures that are in conflict with Truth, may never be accepted. One can respectfully disagree, without hurting the possibility for continued progress toward unity. If at least there is some trust and respect, one step toward unity has been made. We will have shown to others that Catholicism is not anti non Catholics.
Fraternally,
JR
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and we are taught from the catechism that there is means for salvation out side the Catholic Church. I think that’s been debated to death on CAF. And no, the only way the differences would over power is if someone attending had an agenda of trying to change minds.