Bible test verses: literal vs. dynamic

[Barnabas]

What are good test verses for evaluating the philosophy underlying a particular translation?

I’ve done a little digging and I have:

Isaiah 7:14> young woman vs. virgin

Luke 1:28> highly-favored vs. full of grace

Matthew 16:18> stone vs. rock; community vs. church

Are there others?

 

[Joe_5859]

What are good test verses for evaluating the philosophy underlying a particular translation?

I’ve done a little digging and I have:

Isaiah 7:14> young woman vs. virgin

Luke 1:28> highly-favored vs. full of grace

Matthew 16:18> stone vs. rock; community vs. church

Are there others?

I think the idea of “test verses”, while appealing for its’ speed in ascertaining a translation, isn’t helpful in practicality. The RSV uses “young woman” in Isaiah 7:14, but uses “full of grace” in Luke 1:28. On the other hand, the NAB uses “virgin” in Isaiah 7:14, but uses “highly favored one” in Luke 1:28. So what do we do with that?

I admit, I always flip to Luke 1:28 when looking at a new translation o), but we really can’t judge a whole translation on a few verses. Better to let our guiding stick be whether or not the translation is an approved Catholic translation. That’s my two cents on the matter, anyway.

 

[Josh128]

I think the idea of “test verses”, while appealing for its’ speed in ascertaining a translation, isn’t helpful in practicality. The RSV uses “young woman” in Isaiah 7:14, but uses “full of grace” in Luke 1:28. On the other hand, the NAB uses “virgin” in Isaiah 7:14, but uses “highly favored one” in Luke 1:28. So what do we do with that?

Use the DR-Challoner or Confraternity revisions, they are based on the Clementine Vulgate. While theyre not perfect either, I prefer their translations to the NAB and RSV.

 

[patrick457]

One “test rendering” I usually keep watch is whether the translation render the Greek paradosis (that which is handed down) consistently throughout the NT, be it either tradition or teaching. Now, if the translation only uses tradition for negative instances (but render the other instances with another word), that kind of sends some warning signals to me…

 

[COPLAND_3]

One that really turns me off is when πνεῦμα θεοῦ-(ורוח אלהים) is translated into mighty wind or wind of God instead of Spirit of God (Gen 1:2), which is nothing more than textual higher critics, as they usually do, choosing the opposite alternative than what has always been understood traditionally by the Church.

 

[Zenas]

The verses mentioned are good tests of a translation. Another one I always check is James 5:20. “save his soul from death” (literal) vs. “save his life from death” (wishful thinking by the translator).

 

[patrick457]

The verses mentioned are good tests of a translation. Another one I always check is James 5:20. “save his soul from death” (literal) vs. “save his life from death” (wishful thinking by the translator).

That is actually one of the dilemmas encountered by a translator: words which have meanings and nuances that could not be adequately translated by using just one word. The term often rendered intechangeably as “soul” or “life” is the Greek psychē (literally ‘breath’).

Psychē (like the Hebrew nephesh or the Aramaic naphsha) could mean both “breath”, “soul”, and “life”: one of the senses of these words is that of “personhood,” “being,” “identity,” “personality,” or “self,” that is, the full personal existence of humans, the inner core of one’s existence (i.e. the soul). So, you’re correct that in the context the term is more fittingly rendered to as ‘soul’: using ‘life’ for this passage is rather misleading.

 

[bpbasilphx]

\Isaiah 7:14> young woman vs. virgin

Luke 1:28> highly-favored vs. full of grace\

---

**The Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 is the word ALMA in the Masoretic text, which means young woman–married or virgin. However, the Hebrew text that underlies the Septuagint (LXX) obviously used the word that meant “virgin,” because PARTHENOS is the word used. If it were merely a young girl, it would have been KORI (which can mean either young married woman or virgin).

The key word here is KECHARITOMENOI, which is from the root word CHARIS, which everywhere else in the Bible, esepcially the KJV, is translated “grace.” KECHARITOMENOI would literally mean “all graced up”, or in more elegant English, “full of grace.”

BTW, a different phrase is used in John 1:14 for “full of grace”: πληρης χαριτος (pliris charitos).**

 

[patrick457]

One that really turns me off is when πνεῦμα θεοῦ-(ורוח אלהים) is translated into mighty wind or wind of God instead of Spirit of God (Gen 1:2), which is nothing more than textual higher critics, as they usually do, choosing the opposite alternative than what has always been understood traditionally by the Church.

It turns me off too: elsewhere in the OT the phrase ruach Elohim refers consistently to the Spirit that empowers and energizes individuals (Genesis 41:38; Exodus 31:3; 35:31; Numbers 24:2; 1 Samuel 10:10; 11:6; 19:20, 23; Ezekiel 11:24; 2 Chronicles 15:1; 24:20). Rendering it as the rather limp “mighty wind” (taking the word elohim to represent the superlative) makes the whole thing lose all meaning and breaks all the connections.

For example, the NAB version of these passages:

Genesis 1:2: “A mighty wind” sweeps over the waters.
Genesis 41:38: Joseph is spoken of as being endowed with “the spirit of God”.
Exodus 31:3; 35:31: Bezalel is described as being endowed with “a divine spirit of skill and understanding and knowledge in every craft”.
Numbers 24:2: “the spirit of God” comes to Balaam.
1 Samuel 10:10; 11:6: In both instances, “the spirit of God” rushes upon Saul.
1 Samuel 19:20: “When [Saul’s men] saw the band of prophets, presided over by Samuel, in a prophetic frenzy, they too fell into the prophetic state.”
Compare with: “And when they saw the group of prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as leader over them, the Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.” (NKJV)
1 Samuel 19:23: “The spirit of God” comes to Saul, making him fall into a prophetic condition.
Ezekiel 11:24: “Spirit lifted me up and brought me back to the exiles in Chaldea (in a vision, by God’s spirit).”
2 Chronicles 15:1: “Upon Azariah, son of Oded, came the spirit of God”, making him go and prophesy before King Asa.
2 Chronicles 24:20: “Then the spirit of God possessed Zechariah, son of Jehoiada the priest.”

Notice that it is only in Genesis where “mighty wind” is used (with 1 Samuel 19:20 just dropping the “spirit of God” altogether).