Bible verses evidence of sinless Mary?

[Choppy19]

My Evangelical friend said that Mary said to Jesus something like “You are insane!” or something like that. In other words, my Eveangelical freind said that Mary had sinned. Also he said he read the bible and said he found nowhere in the bible that said Mary was sinless. He said that the bible says Jesus was the only one who was sinless.

Is there any biblical evidence saying directly or I indirectly that Mary was sinless?

 

[ericc]

My Evangelical friend said that Mary said to Jesus something like “You are insane!” or something like that. In other words, my Eveangelical freind said that Mary had sinned. Also he said he read the bible and said he found nowhere in the bible that said Mary was sinless. He said that the bible says Jesus was the only one who was sinless.

Is there any biblical evidence saying directly or I indirectly that Mary was sinless?

Luke 1:28. She is full of grace i.e. no room for sin.

Greek word kecharitōmĕnē the perfect passive participle of charitŏō. It denotes one who has been and still is the object of divine benevolence, one who has been favored and continues to be favored by God, one who has been granted supernatural grace and remains in this state.

No evidence to say she lost this fullness of grace.

 

[dmar198]

My Evangelical friend said that Mary said to Jesus something like “You are insane!” or something like that. In other words, my Eveangelical freind said that Mary had sinned. Also he said he read the bible and said he found nowhere in the bible that said Mary was sinless. He said that the bible says Jesus was the only one who was sinless.

Is there any biblical evidence saying directly or I indirectly that Mary was sinless?

Here are a few of the basic passages that support Mary’s sinlessness:

1. Luke 1:28 “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you.” – If Mary is full of grace, then there’s no room for sin.
2. Luke 1:42 “Blessed are you among women!” – You are tall among men or strong among men is the Hebrew way of saying you are the tallest or the strongest. So “blessed are you among women” means Mary is the most blessed of all women and therefore the holiest woman ever.
3. Genesis 3:15 “And God said to the serpent, I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed. He shall strike at your head, and you shall strike at his heel.” – This is a prophecy of the redemption. The woman is Mary, her seed is Jesus, the serpent is the devil, “he shall strike at your head” means the devil and sin will be defeated, and “you shall strike at his heel” means Christ’s foot will be wounded (think of the nail). The key is that it comes right after the Original Sin was committed. God is promising the removal of sin in the enmity with Satan (and his defeat) that is shared by Jesus and Mary. So Mary and Jesus had no sin because they were part of the redemption and removal of sin planned by God.
4. “The New Eve” The early Christians compared Jesus to Adam and Mary to Eve because Adam and Eve were part of our fall while Jesus and Mary were part of our redemption. They didn’t share in sin because they were prepared by God to undo the sins of Adam and Eve and the rest of us. The parallels between Adam and Eve versus Jesus and Mary are intricately woven into the New Testament and don’t come out without some serious Scripture study, but a very important part of it is in Revelation 12, where the devil is enraged at Mary for defeating his plans and he makes war against her children (us) because they are obedient to Christ. This fulfills the prophecy of Genesis 3 where the devil would be enemies of the woman and her seed – not just Jesus but all of us.
5. “The New Ark” The early Christians also compared Mary to the Ark of the Covenant because the Ark of the Covenant carried the presence of God for the Israelites in the Old Testament, and Mary carried Jesus in the New Testament. In Exodus 25 God detailed to Moses the way the Ark was to be made, and it had to be perfect. The early Christians considered this an extended prophecy of Mary and that God would prepare her to be a perfect vessel for the incarnate presence of God in Christ Jesus.

 

[littlestsouls2]

“Many daughters have gathered together riches; thou hast surpassed them all.” (Proverbs 31:29)

“If Mary has surpassed all in the riches of grace, she then possessed original justice, as Adam and the angels had it…” (St. Alphonsus)

“A garden enclosed, a fountain sealed up.” (Song of Solomon 4:12)

“The Holy Spirit signifies the same thing, when he called this his spouse: Mary, says St. Jerome, was properly this enclosed garden and sealed fountain; for the enemies never entered to harm her, but she was always uninjured, remaining holy in soul and body. And in like manner St. Bernard said, addressing the blessed Virgin: Thou art an enclosed garden, where the sinner’s hand never entered to rob it of its flowers.” (St. Alphonsus)

 

[frangiuliano115]

My Evangelical friend said that Mary said to Jesus something like “You are insane!” or something like that. In other words, my Eveangelical freind said that Mary had sinned. Also he said he read the bible and said he found nowhere in the bible that said Mary was sinless. He said that the bible says Jesus was the only one who was sinless.

Is there any biblical evidence saying directly or I indirectly that Mary was sinless?

Your friend is referring to Romans 3:23
“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”

Another verse referred to will be Luke 1:47
“and my spirit rejoices in God, my savior.”

Romans, they’ll say, includes everyone - even Mary.
Luke means that even Mary needed a savior, since she refers to God as her savior.

I’ve stopped debating these two passages. Instead try to tell your friend that the reason catholics believe Mary was sinless is for the following reasons:

First of all, she had to be born without original sin. It makes perfect sense. Being full of grace, as others have stated, means she did not have the sin of concupiscence. Which is transmitted by original sin. Why does this make sense? She was going to have Jesus, God’s Son, in her body. Can Jesus be so intimately close to sin? If saints could be so close to God, imagine how close His mother was! And please don’t refer to our saints but to any person who is very close to God. They don’t believe in our saints. Not having O.S. would have given her protection from sins.

Re her needing a savior. This is true. She needed a redeemer. The redeemer opened up the gates of heaven for all. No one was going to heaven before Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. Being a member of the human race, she also needed a redeemer, but in that sense, not like the rest do. You might want to read up on this a bit more - I can’t remember more on this redemption idea, but it’s the basic.

You won’t find anything in scripture that’ll satisfy your friend. I’d try to hold to those two ideas.

Fran
P.S. Could you please ask your evangelical friend the bible verse where Mary said “Jesus was insane”. Please report back. It would be interesting, I can’t think of any such verse.

 

[hiramross]

If NO sin could ever enter into heaven; then in the same logic how could God come to earth in anything with sin?

God would need a clean sinless channel/vessel to take on flesh aka sinless flesh from a sinless being.

 

[CatholicKnight3]

My Evangelical friend said that Mary said to Jesus something like “You are insane!” or something like that. In other words, my Eveangelical freind said that Mary had sinned. Also he said he read the bible and said he found nowhere in the bible that said Mary was sinless. He said that the bible says Jesus was the only one who was sinless.

Is there any biblical evidence saying directly or I indirectly that Mary was sinless?

The question is IF the Lord was born in the flesh and IF He was truly human, and NO PART of Christ was imperfect, then how could He be incubated within the stain of original sin? From everything we know, if He had a belly button, then He would have indeed been the flesh of her flesh.

What exactly does mother and child share? Watch this and find out what mother and child share within the womb.

youtube.com/watch?v=lRHNHe95eMQ

lauragraceweldon.com/2012/06/12/mother-child-are-linked-at-the-cellular-level/

Watch how the cells of the child protect the mother. These are scientific facts.

Jesus, said from the cross behold YOUR MOTHER. Not…MY mother. YOUR MOTHER. These are one of the last words uttered FROM THE CROSS.

Are we really going to believe that those were temporal words? Well, considering the Revelation 12:17 it says the devil went off to wage war with the REST OF HER OFFSPRING, all those who bear witness to Christ and keep His commandments and combine that with what John is doing at the foot of the cross and Christ proclaiming to BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER, you can see how those words are indeed ETERNAL too.

So, considering what we know for a fact, what is shared between child and mother within the womb, then how can the vessel that carried THE LORD be stained in any way?

By claiming Mary is sinless, it is directing our worship to Christ, since Christ is no way was imperfect. So, essentially, Christ is indeed OUR MOTHER’S savior too.

 

[Della]

I have to wonder how this passage, which your Protestant friend misquotes, morphed into “Mary called Jesus insane”:

Mark 3[19b]Then he[Jesus] went home;
[20] and the crowd came together again, so that they could not even eat.
[21] And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for people were saying, “He is beside himself.”

It was the crowd that thought Jesus “beside himself” at which his family–his cousins–tried to intervene. I’d like to see where it says anything about Mary having called Jesus “insane.”

 

[SJacob7]

The argument that Mary had to be without sin because Jesus was in her womb makes no sense to me. Tell me then how Mary was born sinless when in fact she was born from a woman with sin? If He could make Mary born without sin, even though she came from a woman with sin, how much more could he make is one and only son born without sin from a woman with sin? Jesus, didn’t need someone (Mary) to be sinless in order to be born sinless… He is God. Also, I have the Holy Spirit living within me and I am a sinner.

The bigger problem for me is that I don’t see any real reason that Mary had to be sinless. If you say that the term ‘full of grace’ makes her sinless, then the term ‘highly favored’ also makes her sinless, because that is the new wording in most Bibles. Ok, but for the sake of argument, if God did make Mary without sin, then He could make anyone without sin. We would have no need for Jesus. Because Jesus took our sin and nailed it to the cross. Why would He do such a thing if He could just make us all sinless? By making the one exception with Mary makes Him not a ‘just’ God, but one that made an exception. I can’t buy that. Please don’t get angry, this is just my 2 cents worth.

 

[friardchips]

I have to wonder how this passage, which your Protestant friend misquotes, morphed into “Mary called Jesus insane”:

Mark 3[19b]Then he[Jesus] went home;
[20] and the crowd came together again, so that they could not even eat.
[21] And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for people were saying, “He is beside himself.”

It was the crowd that thought Jesus “beside himself” at which his family–his cousins–tried to intervene. I’d like to see where it says anything about Mary having called Jesus “insane.”

Mary is not mentioned as one of those who tried to stop Him in His tracks in the first of the triple account, but is mentioned at the end of the triplet, when she goes to find Him. There are various (weak) interpretations of this account in which explanations are put forward that Mary was one of those who tried to stop Him, but these are simply erroneous for the very simple fact that had she been one of the crowd, or ‘relatives’, who did initially try and hinder His movements, then she, His ‘Mother’, would have been recorded, as having tried to do so.

 

[Della]

The argument that Mary had to be without sin because Jesus was in her womb makes no sense to me. Tell me then how Mary was born sinless when in fact she was born from a woman with sin? If He could make Mary born without sin, even though she came from a woman with sin, how much more could he make is one and only son born without sin from a woman with sin?

God chooses whom he pleases to do his will and gives them what they need to do it. Anne didn’t need to be sinless in order for Mary to be conceived without sin in her womb. It was a special grace God granted Mary since she was to be the Mother of God (Theotokos/Godbearer). The graces God gave Mary were in and through the redemption Christ wrought on the Cross, for the redemption he gained for us is eternal not limited by time and space.

Jesus, didn’t need someone (Mary) to be sinless in order to be born sinless…

So, the Mother of the Messiah shouldn’t have been sinless since that’s nothing special. Is that what you are saying? The very reason that Jesus is God is the reason Mary was preserved from from sin–to make her more fitting to be his Mother.

He is God. Also, I have the Holy Spirit living within me and I am a sinner.

Are you envious? God doesn’t have to give everyone the same graces. He gives them as he sees fit, not as we do.

The bigger problem for me is that I don’t see any real reason that Mary had to be sinless. If you say that the term ‘full of grace’ makes her sinless, then the term ‘highly favored’ also makes her sinless, because that is the new wording in most Bibles. Ok, but for the sake of argument, if God did make Mary without sin, then He could make anyone without sin. We would have no need for Jesus. Because Jesus took our sin and nailed it to the cross. Why would He do such a thing if He could just make us all sinless? By making the one exception with Mary makes Him not a ‘just’ God, but one that made an exception. I can’t buy that. Please don’t get angry, this is just my 2 cents worth.

Again, this is envy not theology. God can make any exceptions he pleases. In his effort to save mankind he went so far as to letting himself be crucified. Now, that’s extreme. Why did he have to do that? Why couldn’t he have simply told Adam and Eve, “Okay, you sinned, I forgive you, let’s start all over again?” God chose to do something even greater than that, he planned our salvation through his Incarnation from before the foundations of the world, he didn’t make it up as he went along. He knew Mary would be a part of his salvific plan before he create Adam and Eve. If you want to know why God does or doesn’t do this or that, you’d have to ask him.

 

[friardchips]

The argument that Mary had to be without sin because Jesus was in her womb makes no sense to me. Tell me then how Mary was born sinless when in fact she was born from a woman with sin? If He could make Mary born without sin, even though she came from a woman with sin, how much more could he make is one and only son born without sin from a woman with sin? Jesus, didn’t need someone (Mary) to be sinless in order to be born sinless… He is God. Also, I have the Holy Spirit living within me and I am a sinner.

The bigger problem for me is that I don’t see any real reason that Mary had to be sinless. If you say that the term ‘full of grace’ makes her sinless, then the term ‘highly favored’ also makes her sinless, because that is the new wording in most Bibles. Ok, but for the sake of argument, if God did make Mary without sin, then He could make anyone without sin. We would have no need for Jesus. Because Jesus took our sin and nailed it to the cross. Why would He do such a thing if He could just make us all sinless? By making the one exception with Mary makes Him not a ‘just’ God, but one that made an exception. I can’t buy that. Please don’t get angry, this is just my 2 cents worth.

There can only be one Holy Mother of our Creator. He couldn’t be born of two human mothers. To be the Mother of our Creator was a very special undertaking, a unique role, given only to her. So no, not everyone could just be made sinless. To be the Mother of the New Creation, she had to say “yes” to this New Creation, in a completely unselfish and untainted fashion - the opposite to the sinfulness of Eve.

Mary was sinless for many a good reason, including having to suffer the Seven Sorrows, which involved not just witnessing her Son dying, but witnessing her Everything dying. The sword that pierced her heart brought with it as a consequence of losing both Son and Saviour a pain in which only a sinless mother could accept despite such a trial - the torments ravaged upon her heart of losing both Son and Saviour were not given to all, though we can and do suffer deeply, at times.

Another reason is that our Creator did make Himself utterly vulnerable by placing Himself into the hands of a woman, so it is fitting that this woman was to be the Blessed Virgin, whom he created for this special purpose, and by any other means, would not have provided the most perfect means for granting us our Salvation - no other way was the right way, the best way, the surest way, the most perfect way.

There are many, many other reasons too, as to why Mary was conceived without sin, and all of them good and too many to mention here. If you wish to learn and understand then just ask for a book title which I am sure many people on this forum will be happy to share with you!

 

[CatholicKnight3]

I wonder how much of the traditions of Mary that we are taught were derived from the Protoevangelium of James.

It is obviously not included, but one of the main themes of that book was the relationship of Anna and Joachim, Mary’s parents. According to that book, Anna (much like Elizabeth) was not able to conceive. Joachim made a “perfect sin offering” and Anna had pleaded with God. The angel Gabriel (I believe it was Gabriel) approached Anna and informed that she was able to conceive.

Anyway, I wonder if the traditions that have been passed down has anything to with that book.

 

[Michael68]

The argument that Mary had to be without sin because Jesus was in her womb makes no sense to me. Tell me then how Mary was born sinless when in fact she was born from a woman with sin? If He could make Mary born without sin, even though she came from a woman with sin, how much more could he make is one and only son born without sin from a woman with sin? Jesus, didn’t need someone (Mary) to be sinless in order to be born sinless… He is God. Also, I have the Holy Spirit living within me and I am a sinner.

The bigger problem for me is that I don’t see any real reason that Mary had to be sinless. If you say that the term ‘full of grace’ makes her sinless, then the term ‘highly favored’ also makes her sinless, because that is the new wording in most Bibles. Ok, but for the sake of argument, if God did make Mary without sin, then He could make anyone without sin. We would have no need for Jesus. Because Jesus took our sin and nailed it to the cross. Why would He do such a thing if He could just make us all sinless? By making the one exception with Mary makes Him not a ‘just’ God, but one that made an exception. I can’t buy that. Please don’t get angry, this is just my 2 cents worth.

I believe the “new wording” is on purpose to be deceptive about the Blessed Mary’s. state

 

[frangiuliano115]

The argument that Mary had to be without sin because Jesus was in her womb makes no sense to me. Tell me then how Mary was born sinless when in fact she was born from a woman with sin? If He could make Mary born without sin, even though she came from a woman with sin, how much more could he make is one and only son born without sin from a woman with sin? Jesus, didn’t need someone (Mary) to be sinless in order to be born sinless… He is God. Also, I have the Holy Spirit living within me and I am a sinner.

The bigger problem for me is that I don’t see any real reason that Mary had to be sinless. If you say that the term ‘full of grace’ makes her sinless, then the term ‘highly favored’ also makes her sinless, because that is the new wording in most Bibles. Ok, but for the sake of argument, if God did make Mary without sin, then He could make anyone without sin. We would have no need for Jesus. Because Jesus took our sin and nailed it to the cross. Why would He do such a thing if He could just make us all sinless? By making the one exception with Mary makes Him not a ‘just’ God, but one that made an exception. I can’t buy that. Please don’t get angry, this is just my 2 cents worth.

You got some good answers Sjacob. Just want to add the following:

The translation for Luke 1:28 in Young’s Literal Translation:
“Hail , favored one, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women.”

She’s favored by God in a special way to become mother of Jesus. Among all women she is more blessed.

Regarding God making us sinless. If He could make one person sinless, He could certainly make all of us sinless. Then, as you say, Jesus would not have had to go to the cross. So why?

For that age-old reason: God made us so He could love us. He wanted us to love Him back. For love to be worth anything it has to be given freely, as a choice.

So what’s the choice? We could choose to serve and love God OR we could choose to serve satan. If He MADE us love Him, what value would it have had?

So we have a choice now. Some choose to serve satan. And satan is the prince of the air - the prince of the world we live in. He had control over us by our sin nature. The sin nature was our death spiritually. Jesus defeated that death and sin nature.

God planned from the beginning of time to save us in case we faltered. And save us He did: Ezekiel: I myself will shepherd my sheep for others have led them astray. So Jesus, God incarnate, became our redeemer.

And how does this all work? We know we’re sinners, we know we need help. Jesus is our help, and for that we are ever grateful to Him and this causes us to love Him and this love causes us to have His Holy Spirit in us and removes the sin nature which is concupiscence or original sin.

Jesus was a part of Mary’s body which is a bit different from our having the H.S. abide in us. If we wanted to, we could reject Him and He’d leave us. Jesus couldn’t leave Mary’s body till after He was born.

Fran

 

[friardchips]

You got some good answers Sjacob. Just want to add the following:

The translation for Luke 1:28 in Young’s Literal Translation:
“Hail , favored one, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women.”

She’s favored by God in a special way to become mother of Jesus. Among all women she is more blessed.

Regarding God making us sinless. If He could make one person sinless, He could certainly make all of us sinless. Then, as you say, Jesus would not have had to go to the cross. So why?

For that age-old reason: God made us so He could love us. He wanted us to love Him back. For love to be worth anything it has to be given freely, as a choice.

So what’s the choice? We could choose to serve and love God OR we could choose to serve satan. If He MADE us love Him, what value would it have had?

So we have a choice now. Some choose to serve satan. And satan is the prince of the air - the prince of the world we live in. He had control over us by our sin nature. The sin nature was our death spiritually. Jesus defeated that death and sin nature.

God planned from the beginning of time to save us in case we faltered. And save us He did: Ezekiel: I myself will shepherd my sheep for others have led them astray. So Jesus, God incarnate, became our redeemer.

And how does this all work? We know we’re sinners, we know we need help. Jesus is our help, and for that we are ever grateful to Him and this causes us to love Him and this love causes us to have His Holy Spirit in us and removes the sin nature which is concupiscence or original sin.

Jesus was a part of Mary’s body which is a bit different from our having the H.S. abide in us. If we wanted to, we could reject Him and He’d leave us. Jesus couldn’t leave Mary’s body till after He was born.

Fran

What do you mean by “sin nature”? Do you mean Original Sin?

 

[jediliz]

The argument that Mary had to be without sin because Jesus was in her womb makes no sense to me. Tell me then how Mary was born sinless when in fact she was born from a woman with sin? If He could make Mary born without sin, even though she came from a woman with sin, how much more could he make is one and only son born without sin from a woman with sin? Jesus, didn’t need someone (Mary) to be sinless in order to be born sinless… He is God. Also, I have the Holy Spirit living within me and I am a sinner.

The bigger problem for me is that I don’t see any real reason that Mary had to be sinless. If you say that the term ‘full of grace’ makes her sinless, then the term ‘highly favored’ also makes her sinless, because that is the new wording in most Bibles. Ok, but for the sake of argument, if God did make Mary without sin, then He could make anyone without sin. We would have no need for Jesus. Because Jesus took our sin and nailed it to the cross. Why would He do such a thing if He could just make us all sinless? By making the one exception with Mary makes Him not a ‘just’ God, but one that made an exception. I can’t buy that. Please don’t get angry, this is just my 2 cents worth.

So GOD can’t preserve the woman he chose to give birth to HIS SON, from original sin? You’re saying that its not possible for nothing to be impossible with GOD. Mary had to be preserved from sin…she was chosen to be the MOTHER OF THE MESSIAH!

Calling Jesus’ mother a sinner is not a good idea.

 

[Duane1966]

The argument that Mary had to be without sin because Jesus was in her womb makes no sense to me. Tell me then how Mary was born sinless when in fact she was born from a woman with sin? If He could make Mary born without sin, even though she came from a woman with sin, how much more could he make is one and only son born without sin from a woman with sin? Jesus, didn’t need someone (Mary) to be sinless in order to be born sinless… He is God. Also, I have the Holy Spirit living within me and I am a sinner.

The bigger problem for me is that I don’t see any real reason that Mary had to be sinless. If you say that the term ‘full of grace’ makes her sinless, then the term ‘highly favored’ also makes her sinless, because that is the new wording in most Bibles. Ok, but for the sake of argument, if God did make Mary without sin, then He could make anyone without sin. We would have no need for Jesus. Because Jesus took our sin and nailed it to the cross. Why would He do such a thing if He could just make us all sinless? By making the one exception with Mary makes Him not a ‘just’ God, but one that made an exception. I can’t buy that. Please don’t get angry, this is just my 2 cents worth.

Then why was Jesus, who was fully human, also born without sin? Does that mean God was not just with me by allowing, Adam, Eve, Mary, and Jesus to be born without sin, but not I?

And yes of course He could make anyone without sin, but that is no guarantee that said person will not go onto sin, as proven with Adam and Eve.

Was it just for Jesus to raise Lazarus from the dead, but not others?

Really, when I start saying I don’t see the reason for something, I can do that with just about any bible passage. Why did Judas have to betray Jesus? Why did Jesus have to be crucified?

By the way, I know people who reject Christianity, because they view the Christian God as unjust.

 

[Randy_Carson]

The argument that Mary had to be without sin because Jesus was in her womb makes no sense to me. Tell me then how Mary was born sinless when in fact she was born from a woman with sin? If He could make Mary born without sin, even though she came from a woman with sin, how much more could he make is one and only son born without sin from a woman with sin? Jesus, didn’t need someone (Mary) to be sinless in order to be born sinless… He is God. Also, I have the Holy Spirit living within me and I am a sinner.

It was not REQUIRED that Mary be sinless in order to carry Jesus in her womb, but it was surely fitting that he dwell in a place of purity, was it not?

The bigger problem for me is that I don’t see any real reason that Mary had to be sinless. If you say that the term ‘full of grace’ makes her sinless, then the term ‘highly favored’ also makes her sinless, because that is the new wording in most Bibles. Ok, but for the sake of argument, if God did make Mary without sin, then He could make anyone without sin. We would have no need for Jesus. Because Jesus took our sin and nailed it to the cross. Why would He do such a thing if He could just make us all sinless? By making the one exception with Mary makes Him not a ‘just’ God, but one that made an exception. I can’t buy that. Please don’t get angry, this is just my 2 cents worth.

Mary was made sinless in anticipation of the Cross of Christ; the rest of us are made sinless by forgiveness we receive as a result of the cross.

God chose to save Mary by preventing her from inheriting the stain of original sin while saving the rest of us by washing the stain away.

Either way, we are all - Mary included - forgiven as a result of Christ’s death.

 

[friardchips]

It was not REQUIRED that Mary be sinless in order to carry Jesus in her womb, but it was surely fitting that he dwell in a place of purity, was it not?

Who says?!

Mary was made sinless in anticipation of the Cross of Christ; the rest of us are made sinless by forgiveness we receive as a result of the cross.

Good word (in bold)!