Biblical Account of the Isrealites

  • Thread starter Thread starter aj830
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

aj830

Guest
So, I have more problems from my Western Civ Class. The lecture notes from the section on the Hebrews just seem to blast Biblical History. I don’t know how to respond to his notes really. Read them or glance over them. I don’t have any background so I have really no response to the things he says in the notes:eek:
 
Moved thread from Sacred Scriptures sub-forum.

Mane Nobiscum Domine,
Ferdinand Mary
 
So, I have more problems from my Western Civ Class. The lecture notes from the section on the Hebrews just seem to blast Biblical History. I don’t know how to respond to his notes really. Read them or glance over them. I don’t have any background so I have really no response to the things he says in the notes:eek:
There’s a lot of info and reading there. Do you have a couple of problematic statements therein that you would like to pick out and have addressed?
 
So, I have more problems from my Western Civ Class. The lecture notes from the section on the Hebrews just seem to blast Biblical History. I don’t know how to respond to his notes really. Read them or glance over them. I don’t have any background so I have really no response to the things he says in the notes:eek:
His perspective is pretty common these days. He’s fairly far over toward the skeptical end of OT scholarship, but not quite at the far end (after all, he admits that David existed, which many don’t).

The weakest part of his argument is the repeated use of the argument from silence. IMHO the argument that archaeologists could trace the encampments of the Hebrews in the Exodus if they had really existed is just nonsense. Does he (or rather do Finkelstein and Silberman) really think that every movement of a group of people in the ancient world has left an archeological trace? People were moving back and forth between Palestine and Egypt all the time.

I think it is true that the numbers given for the Hebrews in Exodus are simply impossible (unless we are to believe that God worked several miracles in terms of population growth, number of people crammed into one spot, etc., and then that all record of this vast migration was wiped from the earth except what is written in Exodus). Probably the number of Hebrew warriors who left Egypt was closer to six hundred than to six hundred thousand. But I see no basis for denying the historicity of the event altogether. It fits what we know of the era.

There is one huge mistake–the claim that there is no record of the Israelites from Egypt in the 13th century. The Stele of Merneptah from the late 13th century claims that the Egyptians had wiped out “Israel.” I’m not sure what your professor and his sources are doing here. Perhaps there has been new evidence discrediting the Stele, but I haven’t heard that there is. Certainly the Stele is hard to fit into the Biblical narrative, but it is certainly evidence that the Egyptians knew of an “Israel” in the 13th century.

Egyptian control over Palestine began to falter after the 13th century. An Israelite settlement in Palestine would fit, IMHO, and that would make Merneptah’s Stele some kind of reference to the Egyptian oppression of the Hebrews recorded in Exodus. There’s also the possibility that the Exodus occurred much earlier, in the 15th century, in which case the Stele may refer to an event not recorded in Scripture.

These guys are simply unwilling to give the Bible the benefit of the doubt. If they can’t find positive archaeological evidence for something, they assume it didn’t happen. I’m quite willing to believe that in many cases it didn’t happen exactly as one would suppose from a straightforward reading of Scripture. But in many cases Scripture can actually be read so as to harmonize with the archaeological record. For instance, your professor says that the Bible portrays Israel as united before the death of Solomon, as if the division between north and south arose only then. That is not what the Bible says at all. There are abundant references to north-south tensions and divisions from Judges on. Furthermore, if you read Samuel and Kings it makes sense that Judah was the smaller and less prosperous area. Throughout the narratives of the divided kingdom, Judah usually seems to be a “little brother” of Israel, and when the two kingdoms conflicted the north generally seems to have had the upper hand.

There’s a lot more that could be said, but I’ll leave it there for now. . . .

Edwin
 
Thanks Edwin. That helped me quite a bit. I’ll do that research on The Stele of Merneptah. And BTW you said you taught Western Civ. before, how long have you been a professor and what do you teach now? Just wondering and thanks again for the help.
 
Thanks Edwin. That helped me quite a bit. I’ll do that research on The Stele of Merneptah. And BTW you said you taught Western Civ. before, how long have you been a professor and what do you teach now? Just wondering and thanks again for the help.
I taught Western Civ as an adjunct at a state university for two and a half years. Then this past fall I got a full-time job teaching Bible and religion (mostly Bible so far!) at Huntington University in Indiana. My field is actually church history (focusing on the Protestant Reformation), and I finally finished my Ph.D. in the fall of 2005.

In Christ,

Edwin
 
Sometimes the Discovery and History Channels are really off kilter with their presentations, but the History Channel recently had a two hour program on the Exodus which found quite a bit of evidence that would be in contradiction to the authors of the book your prof is citing. I have that book and Edwin is correct. They are way over on the “it can’t have happened that way” side. The History Channel documentary placed the Exodus in the fifteenth century BC and not the 13th. It was said not the Red Sea which was crossed, but the Reed Sea(remember in Hebrew the vowels are left out). Following the directions from the OT they located a mountain which had a spring on the top at one time and which had a natural aphitheater. It fit the discription given for Mount Sinai which has previously and maybe still not been identified with any certainty. The explorers/archeologists said that previous parties had looked for evidence in the wrong places and of course found none(duh!). They found evidence on an island in Greece for the Exodus and therorized that some of the Hebrews left Egypt by water and not on foot. The tape is probably available for about forty bucks. It was quite good and sounded very reasonable for a History Channel program having to do with religion. Since the Hebrew Bible was totally re-edited about 600 BC it should be no surprise that some of it is fabrication and reinterpretation and some of it is fairly accurate historically. After all they were not writing History for the 20th century but a Holy Book about their faith.
Having been a College/University student at one time, I would say if you need the course, regurgitate the prof’s ideas and someday when you have time do your own research, study the matter to gain a more balanced picture.
 
Sometimes rthe Discovery and History Channels are really off kilter with their presentations, but the History Channel had a two hour program on the Exodus
That theory does seem a bit out there, but I admit I haven’t seen the program.
Having been a College/University student at one time, I would say if you need the course, regurgitate the prof’s ideas and someday when you have time do your own research and study of the matter to gain a more balanced picture.
I would disagree–if the professor is worth his salt he won’t want you to regurgitate. I know that I respect students who have the gumption to disagree with me and generally reward them (grade-wise) for doing so (assuming that they do so thoughtfully of course and not just in a knee-jerk manner). However, you need to be careful not to give the impression that you’re simply spouting what you have learned from your religious upbringing or from some website (ha!). As a Christian, I tend to be fairly gentle on students who do this, while challenging them to engage the material more deeply. A secular professor may not respond that way, and the tone of the notes you posted were not encouraging. So be careful. For all I know he may want regurgitation–too bad for him if he does!

In a class like this, though, a professor so rarely comes across anything but mindless regurgitation that I’d think he’d be happy to see that you are thinking about the material. . . . but I don’t know him and he may be a secularist bigot. Such people certainly do exist–more abundantly in academia than most other places, unfortunately.

In Christ,

Edwin
 
I taught Western Civ as an adjunct at a state university for two and a half years. Then this past fall I got a full-time job teaching Bible and religion (mostly Bible so far!) at Huntington University in Indiana. My field is actually church history (focusing on the Protestant Reformation), and I finally finished my Ph.D. in the fall of 2005.

In Christ,

Edwin
Edwin,
I’ve recently recieved the church history in plain english, from Dr. Shelley can you give a quick review of this, i realize he is an evangelical. Sorry I know this is a lil off topic.
Simon
 
There was also Hittite (?) texts which mention the Hebiru in connection to Egypt, IIRC.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top