Biblical and Jewish Traditional Beliefs About Purgatory

[Church_Militant]

There is ample evidence that the Bible implicitly teaches a Purgatory.

Begin with Matthew 12:32, which says, “And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.” Does this not imply that some sins can be forgiven in the age to come? Now think this through…There is no sin to forgive in heaven, right? Sin is not forgiven in hell because it’s too late and permanent. So…Implicit “purgatory”

1st Corinthians 3:15 which says, “If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.” Again this cannot refer to heaven or hell for the same reasons as above. This is essentially the definition of Purgatory.

1st Peter 3:18-20 which says, “Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit, 19 In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison: 20 Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.”

and 1st Peter 4:6 which says, “For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to the dead: that they might be judged indeed according to men, in the flesh; but may live according to God, in the Spirit” Note that it was a prison for disobedient spirits and yet they were saved when Jesus preached to them.

2nd Maccabees 12:44-46 which says, "44 (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) 45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. 46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins. "
The same reasons apply here as to the first passages I gave you…

Note also that St. Paul says that the early church believed this in 1st Corinthians 15:29 which says, "Otherwise what shall they do that are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not again at all? why are they then baptized for them? " He does not condemn this practice though it seems to have fallen out of practice…
(Cont’d)

 

[Church_Militant]

The Jews also believe this and still do today (as if the passage from 2nd Maccabees doesn’t clearly show this). I offer info from my good friend Stillsmallvoice who is an Orthodox Jew who lives in Israel:

"Hi all!

Our prayer, the Mourner’s Kaddish, is for the benefit of the soul of the deceased & is believed to ease the spiritual status of the deceased’s soul as it goes through whatever trials & tribulations it may be subject to. Yes, we do believe in something akin to the Roman Catholic notion of Purgatory & thus saying the Mourner’s Kaddish would be similar to the Roman Catholic idea of praying for the souls in Purgatory.

Look at ou.org/yerushalayim/kadish.htm#Meaning

.

The text there is the (5 clause) Mourner’s Kaddish in Hebrew, transliterated English & English (you can also listen to it in RealAudio).

As I understand it, a soul that has sinned in this world has to pay for its actions/inactions in the next world. We do not automatically & necessarily divide souls into the entirely righteous who will therefore enjoy enternal bliss and the entirely evil who will therefore suffer eternal damnation. The degrees in between are infinite & we believe that God rewards/punishes each soul according to its good/not good actions. As I said, the recitation of the Kaddish prayer is believed to benefit the soul of the deceased as it goes through whatever trials and tribulations it has to endure in the next world.

In addition to the aforementioned Kaddish prayer (which is usually said by a son for a departed parent for 11 months after the day of burial, but which can also be said for 30 days for a spouse, child or sibling, particularly if none of these have children to say the Kaddish; the Kaddish is also recited on the anniversary of the burial), there are the Yizkor (literally: “He will remember”) and E-l Maleh Rahamim (literally: “God Full of Mercy”) prayers (see ou.org/yerushalayim/yizkor/) which are recited 4 times a year on Yom Kippur, the last day of Passover, Shavuot and Shemini Atzeret (see jewfaq.org/toc.htm for links to all of these holydays).

I submit the following excerpt (from jewfaq.org/death.htm):

In addition to the Kaddish. it is believed that the recitation of the Yizkor and E-l Maleh Rahamim prayers are beneficial to the soul of the departed. On the anniversary of the burial, it is common to study some chapter of the Talmud or the Tanakh (what we call what Christians call the “Old Testament”), read a selection of Psalms, give to charity, etc. in honor/memory of the departed. This is also believed to be beneficial."I had already discovered this in talking to a devout Orthodox Jewish buddy of mine and Stillsmallvoice was kind enough to help out with all this info as well.

In spite of allegations to the contrary, the concept of Purgatory is indeed quite scriptural.

 

[dumspirospero]

As always…great post Church Militant

 

[Black_Knight_MI]

Fascinating.

There is Biblical support for Purgatory and we can show that the Jews believed in something similar even before we did? (And still believe in it!)

I just don’t see how a rational person can deny this…especially someone who says they are a “Bible Christian”. It’s like the literal interpetation of the Bible teaches it and yet so many non-Catholics miss it.
Blackie

 

[Nicene]

The best known prayers for the dead is the Kaddish, which actually contains no mention of death. It is an Aramaic prayer which calls for the sanctification of God’s Name. It is traditionally said by mourners as a testimony that, despite their loss, they have not lost faith in the Almighty. It can only be said in the presence of ten or more Jewish men.

The Kel Malei Rachamim “God full of Mercy” is said yearly by the gabbai, before the anniversary of the death and requests that the soul be sheltered and be enabled to rest in Gan Eden /Heaven.

Yizkor is said on major festivals by mourners, and also requests sheltering of the soul and its rest in Gan Eden.

It is generally considered that a soul’s lot is determined not only by its conduct in life, but also by the lingering effects its life had. So, for example, a donation to charity by a descendant accrues to the merit of the deceased, because of the example it set in life.

Intercession of the dead for the living is a part of Jewish mysticism. Chasidic sects believe that prayer at the grave of a great rabbi is particularly efficacious, and people do claim dreams in which a deceased relative has conveyed important information to them.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Psalm45_9]

In spite of allegations to the contrary, the concept of Purgatory is indeed quite scriptural.

It is also historical, dating to at least the Maccabeean revolt.

 

[Psalm45_9]

Intercession of the dead for the living is a part of Jewish mysticism. Chasidic sects believe that prayer at the grave of a great rabbi is particularly efficacious, and people do claim dreams in which a deceased relative has conveyed important information to them.

I saw this on the History channel. Pious Jews burn votive lights before a picture of him in his tomb, just like Catholics burning votive lights before the image of Saints. I tried explaining to an Anti-Catholic who came on this forum two years ago that praying the Saints is part of Jewish tradition which was brought over to Catholicism. It feel on deaf ears, he said must we believe everything the Jews believe? So I brought his point up when he tried saying that the Deuterocanonicals aren’t inspired because the Jews don’t accept them (although the Ethiopian Jews do). Then the thread got ugly.

 

[mikeledes]

I have heard from several Jewish sources that the Kaddish is more for the benefit of the mourner than the souls of the dead. They say it’s not the same thing as prayer for the dead.

God Bless

 

[Pax]

Here is another passage of scripture to add to Militant’s list:

2 Sam 1:12
And they mourned, and wept, and fasted until evening, for Saul, and for Jonathan his son, and for the people of the LORD, and for the house of Israel; because they were fallen by the sword.

It would appear that the mourners thought this would somehow benefit those that fell that day. I don’t see what fasting would do for the mourners themselves and the passage says that they did it “for” those that fell.