Biblical Evidence for Great Apostasy and Restoration? (Mormons)

[catholic-rcia]

As to hiring only those that are more like you:

In all honesty most do this to a point, does not matter what faith, color…etc… Some don’t do this at all, they just look for the most qualified period. Prejudice is in all walks of like in one way or another. I have my own to deal with, to take to Confession. It’s never black and white as we all know. I moved to Utah 12 years ago and have had no problem working among the LDS. When I am at a disadvantage I chalk it up to it’s their area, that they would rather work with one of their faith. I am sure this happens in Boston as well. It is just part of life. Part of our fallen nature and fallen world. You get over it, forgivenss takes place and move on or try to change it. But we are all in it together as we are all sinners right?

My son was on a school bus here in Logan Utah when some of the LDS kids started laughing and making crud jokes because they were passing by our Priests home. When my son came home and told me I pretty much told him that kids will be kids and it is possible that if he was in a more Catholic area driving by an LDS’S Bishop home this could occur as well. I told him the most importanmt thing he could do is forgive and to try not to do the same thing when he gets tempted. And that the LDS kids are just as special in Gods eyes as he is.

So probably should get back to the original post here about the Apostasy which does have its roots in this discussion as well. We are all fallen! Again, one thing I love about the Catholic faith, is that the Church was built by Jesus not because another Church failed but rather because we are all fallen. Just makes sense to me.

 

[dianaiad]

No, I am talking about not wanting to work in a hostile environment.

As for the second point, time will tell, m’dear, time will tell.

I believe that a 150 years is a sufficient time. If Mormons–having had total control of their public education for close to 50 years, and voluntarily going along with government standards in public education for the last hundred years–haven’t lived down to your conspiracy theories about how much we want to take over the school system in Utah YET, I think that we can say that 'time has told."

…and time has said something you don’t want to hear.

 

[dianaiad]

As to hiring only those that are more like you:

In all honesty most do this to a point, does not matter what faith, color…etc… Some don’t do this at all, they just look for the most qualified period. Prejudice is in all walks of like in one way or another. I have my own to deal with, to take to Confession. It’s never black and white as we all know. I moved to Utah 12 years ago and have had no problem working among the LDS. When I am at a disadvantage I chalk it up to it’s their area, that they would rather work with one of their faith. I am sure this happens in Boston as well. It is just part of life. Part of our fallen nature and fallen world. You get over it, forgivenss takes place and move on or try to change it. But we are all in it together as we are all sinners right?

My son was on a school bus here in Logan Utah when some of the LDS kids started laughing and making crud jokes because they were passing by our Priests home. When my son came home and told me I pretty much told him that kids will be kids and it is possible that if he was in a more Catholic area driving by an LDS’S Bishop home this could occur as well. I told him the most importanmt thing he could do is forgive and to try not to do the same thing when he gets tempted. And that the LDS kids are just as special in Gods eyes as he is.

So probably should get back to the original post here about the Apostasy which does have its roots in this discussion as well. We are all fallen! Again, one thing I love about the Catholic faith, is that the Church was built by Jesus not because another Church failed but rather because we are all fallen. Just makes sense to me.

I wish you weren’t right…on all counts (regarding the kids making fun of the priest AND the fact that the reverse happens all the time, too) but you are. That’s a function of culture and of kids.

They gang up on the different.

When I was their age, I WAS the ‘different,’ and I was in your son’s place, listening to all the jokes, the mockery and the assininity from non-Mormons TO Mormons. Good grief, just look at the sort of…stuff…that goes on HERE, on this forum; adults can’t seem to stop doing it; how can you expect better behavior from children?

My daughters live in Logan, and I can tell you that the would not participate in such a thing, nor would they put up with any one doing so in their presence.

 

[datamonkey]

LJ, that doesn’t make any sense.

IF the practice is as he described, that ALL Mormon owned businesses in Utah are biased toward Mormons and against non-Mormons, then it’s like the guy who only hires former “Alpha-Beta-whatevers.” It’s a good idea to wear the pin and know the handshake. You cannot blame a Mormon interviewee for bringing his bona fides to the interview. In fact, doing so means that the kid did his or her homework about the company and the culture. Thus, refusing to hire him BECAUSE of that is exactly the sort of discrimination he is claiming to be against. He is discriminating against them because he doesn’t like Mormons.

Was Datamonkey wrong about the culture–and thus right about dismissing anybody with a BoM in his hand, or right about the culture–and showing his own discriminatory hiring practices in response?

Either way, there’s a problem.

To clarify a couple of things;

First, I worked for a publicly owned companies that were traded on NYSE and had to adhere to Federal Law regarding discrimination.

Secondly, I never indicated it was a wide spread practice; it was just an antidotal view based on my experiences while working in Utah. Obviously, I couldn’t apply for positions at the thousands of smaller employers in the SLC area. However having said that, discrimination is never right; regardless of whether the company is a public company or not. I found it very interesting some applicants found it was useful to display the BOM when interviewing for a position.

The practice of displaying the BOM would not have survived if at some level it didn’t work. You can speculate on how wide spread the discrimination was/is in SLC (or Utah) based on the fact this practice was/is rewarded at some level. I won’t (speculate), but to deny it or to try and justify it based on a ‘company culture’ is just plain wrong.

 

[Pahoran]

To clarify a couple of things;

First, I worked for a publicly owned companies that were traded on NYSE and had to adhere to Federal Law regarding discrimination.

Secondly, I never indicated it was a wide spread practice; it was just an antidotal view based on my experiences while working in Utah. Obviously, I couldn’t apply for positions at the thousands of smaller employers in the SLC area. However having said that, discrimination is never right;

“Never right” as in “never right, and therefore I was wrong to do it,” or “never right” as in “never right except when I did it?”

regardless of whether the company is a public company or not. I found it very interesting some applicants found it was useful to display the BOM when interviewing for a position.

The practice of displaying the BOM would not have survived if at some level it didn’t work.

Which goes back to Dianaid’s point: either it was a generally successful strategy, in which case you were being unreasonable and discriminatory in your knee-jerk reaction to it, or else it was not a generally successful strategy, in which case your “antidotal” [sic] perception of pro-LDS discrimination is wrong.

You can speculate on how wide spread the discrimination was/is in SLC (or Utah) based on the fact this practice was/is rewarded at some level. I won’t (speculate), but to deny it or to try and justify it based on a ‘company culture’ is just plain wrong.

As wrong as your intentionally discriminatory reaction to it?

Regards,
Pahoran

 

[dianaiad]

To clarify a couple of things;

First, I worked for a publicly owned companies that were traded on NYSE and had to adhere to Federal Law regarding discrimination.

Secondly, I never indicated it was a wide spread practice; it was just an antidotal view based on my experiences while working in Utah. Obviously, I couldn’t apply for positions at the thousands of smaller employers in the SLC area. However having said that, discrimination is never right; regardless of whether the company is a public company or not. I found it very interesting some applicants found it was useful to display the BOM when interviewing for a position.

The practice of displaying the BOM would not have survived if at some level it didn’t work. You can speculate on how wide spread the discrimination was/is in SLC (or Utah) based on the fact this practice was/is rewarded at some level. I won’t (speculate), but to deny it or to try and justify it based on a ‘company culture’ is just plain wrong.

Datamonkey, this started because LJ claimed that it was pretty much all pervasive. When you chimed in with your examples, I rather assumed that you were backing her claim up–and her claim was indeed that such discrimination was endemic.

As for 'thi practice of displaying the BOM would not have survived if at some level it didn’t work…" sorry, but I’ve been helping young people do resume’s for quite awhile now, and they keep trying stuff that absolutely gaurantees their getting tossed on thier keesters; stupid stuff like basic misspelling, or writing cover letters that emphasize how much the company can do for them, rather than how much they can do for the company. If you were correct, nobody would do that any more since such tactics don’t work.

Well, they don’t work—and people keep trying them anyway. I would put carrying the BoM with you to a job interview as one of those. Believe me, there are other, much subtler, ways of declaring one’s religious affiliation than carrying a copy of the scriptures.

…a pair of CTR cufflinks (or ring) would do the same job much better, for instance–or a temple tie pin, or any one of a number of things that aren’t quite so ‘in your face.’ These applicants who brought the scriptures with them to a job interview were doing the equivalent of misspelling the name of the company on the cover letter.

However, you didn’t tell us that you crossed them out of the running for being ubberblatant–you claimed that the very fact that they were LDS…and brought their scriptures with them to prove that, that decided you against them.

And that, sir, is discriminatory in exactly the same manner that actively recruiting LDS workers would be, in companies that had to abide by those rules.