Biblical Inerrancy

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Can someone with a good knowledge of Catholic biblical studies help me out here? I am not even sure if this is the best thread for my question.I have recently downloaded “Biblia Clerus” which apparently comes from the Vatican. The main commentary claims that St Peter did not write the second epistle, St John did not write Revelations, and (which I find most worrying ) the author of the fourth Gospel put words into the mouth of Our Lord because of the contemporary rivalry between the synagogue and the Church. Apparently negative statements about the Jews were not made atall by Christ, but were made up by the author for his own purposes, and dishonestly attributed to Christ. I am not a fundamentalist, and I am aware that the question of authorship may be more complicated than was once thought; I am also aware that the Gospel writers adapted certain details and speeches for perfectly good reasons, but my own belief ( for what it’s worth) is that if the Gospels say Our Lord said or did something , then he said or did it ( not necessarily in those precise words or in that precise way). If we are to believe that the Gospels do not give us an accurate account of Jesus’ life and teaching then are we not at the mercy of exegetes who will interpret the bIble any way they wish?
Is this really the teaching of the Catholic Church?And if not, why was it allowed into this document?Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
 
I have taken some time to compile quotes from the Early Church Fathers so that those viewing this thread could have all their doubts suppressed – if not completely vanquished – by the grace of God, and their faith encouraged and invigorated by that same grace through “such a great cloud of witnesses” regarding the truth of the concomitant dogmas of inspiration and inerrancy, solemnly declared by Popes Leo XIII and Pius XII to be – and now shown to be – the “ancient and unchanging” faith of the Church.

Because the Catholic Church understands the dogma of inerrancy to flow from inspiration – that, in fact, the two cannot be separated – I have also included a few witnesses focused on the belief that the God Who causes His children to desire that false ways be put far from them (cf. Psalm 119:29), and Who brings His children to “hate every false way” (Psalm 119:104, 128), and to “hate and abhor falsehood” (Psalm 119:163); the God “Who never lies” (Titus 1:2), and for Whom it is impossible to lie (cf. Heb 6:18); that this God is the primary Author of the complete books of the Old and New Testaments with all their parts, which are thus sacred and error-free revelation, having been written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit at the dictation of the Head, having been, “God-breathed” (2 Tim. 3:16). May you be blessed!

Clement of Rome (A.D. 96): “Look carefully into the Scriptures, which are the true utterances of the Holy Spirit. Observe that nothing of an unjust or counterfeit character is written in them” (, Ch. 45Letter to the Corinthians).

Justin Martyr (A.D. 150-160): “I shall not venture to suppose or to say …] the Scriptures contradicted each other …]; and if a Scripture which appears to be of such a kind be brought forward, and if there be a pretext [for saying] that it is contrary [to some other], since I am entirely convinced that no Scripture contradicts another, I shall admit rather that I do not understand what is recorded, and shall strive to persuade those who imagine that the Scriptures are contradictory, to be rather of the same opinion as myself” (, Ch. 65Dialogue with Trypho).

Irenaeus (A.D. 175-185): “If, however, we cannot discover explanations of all those things in Scripture which are made the subject of investigation, yet let us not on that account seek after any other God besides Him who really exists. For this is the very greatest impiety. We should leave things of that nature to God who created us, being most properly assured that the Scriptures are indeed perfect, since they were spoken by the Word of God and His Spirit” (, Bk. 2, Ch. 28, 2Against Heresies).

Athenagoras (A.D. 176-177) : “I think that you also, with your great zeal for knowledge, and your great attainments in learning, cannot be ignorant of the writings either of Moses or of Isaiah and Jeremiah, and the other prophets, who, lifted in ecstasy above the natural operations of their minds by the impulses of the Divine Spirit, uttered the things with which they were inspired, the Spirit making use of them as a flute-player breathes into a flute” (, Ch. 9A Plea for the Christians).

Theophilus of Antioch (A.D. 180-185): “And Moses, who lived many years before Solomon, or, rather, the Word of God by him as by an instrument, says, ‘In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth’” (, Bk. 2, Ch. 10Theophilus to Autolycus).

Theophilus of Antioch (A.D. 180-185): “How much more, then, shall we know the truth who are instructed by the holy prophets, who were possessed by the Holy Spirit of God! On this account all the prophets spoke harmoniously and in agreement with one another, and foretold the things that would come to pass in all the world. For the very accomplishment of predicted and already consummated events should demonstrate to those who are fond of information, yea rather, who are lovers of truth, that those things are really true which they declared concerning the epochs and eras before the deluge: to wit, how the years have run on since the world was created until now” (, Bk. 3, Ch. 17Theophilus to Autolycus).

Hippolytus of Rome (A.D. 200): “For these fathers were furnished with the Spirit, and largely honoured by the Word Himself; and just as it is with instruments of music, so had they the Word always, like the plectrum, in union with them, and when moved by Him the prophets announced what God willed. For they spoke not of their own power (let there be no mistake as to that), neither did they declare what pleased themselves” (, 2On Antichrist).
 
Hippolytus of Rome (?) (A.D. 230): “Therefore they have laid their hands boldly upon the Divine Scriptures, alleging that they have corrected them. …] But how daring this offense is, it is not likely that they themselves are ignorant. For either they do not believe that the Divine Scriptures were spoken by the Holy Spirit, and thus are unbelievers, or else they think themselves wiser than the Holy Spirit, and in that case what else are they than demoniacs?” (qtd. in Eusebius, , Bk. 5, Ch. 28, 15 & 18Church History).

Origen (A.D. 244): “To the man who is a peacemaker …] there is in the Divine oracles nothing crooked or perverse, for they are all plain to those who understand. And because to such an one there is nothing crooked or perverse, he sees therefore abundance of peace in all the Scriptures, even in those which seem to be at conflict, and in contradiction with one another. And likewise he becomes a third peacemaker as he demonstrates that that which appears to others to be a conflict in the Scriptures is no conflict, and exhibits their concord and peace …] [A]ll the Scriptures are words of the wise like goads …] and there is nothing superfluous in them. …] [H]e who comes instructed in the music of God, …] knows that all the Scripture is the one perfect and harmonized instrument of God, which from different sounds gives forth one saving voice to those willing to learn…]” (, Bk. 2Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew).

Athanasius (A.D. 347?): “By Moses then, God gave commandment respecting sacrifices, and all the book called Leviticus is entirely taken up with the arrangement of these matters, so that He might accept the offerer. So through the Prophets, He blames him who despised these things, as disobedient to the commandment saying, ‘I have not required these at your hands. Neither did I speak to your fathers respecting sacrifices, nor command them concerning whole burnt-offerings .’ Now it is the opinion of some, that the Scriptures do not agree together, or that God, Who gave the commandment, is false. But there is no disagreement whatever, far from it, neither can the Father, Who is truth, lie; ‘for it is impossible that God should lie’ (Hebrews 6:18), as Paul affirms. But all these things are plain to those who rightly consider them, and to those who receive with faith the writings of the law” (, 3Letter 19).

Gregory of Nazianzus (A.D. 362?): [L]et us not suppose these events to have been recorded without a purpose, nor that they are a mere assemblage of words and deeds gathered together for the pastime of those who listen to them, as a kind of bait for the ears, for the sole purpose of giving pleasure. Let us leave such jesting to the legends and the Greeks, who think but little of the truth, and enchant ear and mind by the charm of their fictions and the daintiness of their style. We however, who extend the accuracy of the Spirit to the merest stroke and tittle, will never admit the impious assertion that even the smallest matters were dealt with haphazard by those who have recorded them, and have thus been borne in mind down to the present day” (, 104-105Oration 2).

Epiphanius (A.D. 377): “And nothing of discrepancy will be found in Sacred Scripture, nor will there be found any statement in opposition to any other statement” (qtd. in Jurgens, , Vol. 2, pg. 75, 1106Faith of the Early Fathers).

Jerome (A.D. 385): “[A] report suddenly reached me that certain contemptible creatures were deliberately assailing me with the charge that I had endeavored to correct passages in the gospels, against the authority of the ancients and the opinion of the whole world. …] [L]et them take my answer as follows: I am not so dull-witted nor so coarsely ignorant …] I am not, I repeat, so ignorant as to suppose that any of the Lord’s words is either in need of correction or is not divinely inspired; but the Latin manuscripts of the Scriptures are proved to be faulty by the variations which all of them exhibit, and my object has been to restore them to the form of the Greek original” (, 1Letter 27).

Jerome (A.D. 386): “Holy Scripture, I reply first of all, cannot contradict itself. One book cannot invalidate the drift of the whole. A single verse cannot annul the meaning of a book” (, 6Letter 46).

Augustine (A.D. 392-418): “[Y]ou understand not, you fail to understand, canst not attain: honour God’s Scripture, honour God’s Word, though it be not plain: in reverence wait for understanding. Be not wanton to accuse either the obscurity or seeming contradiction of Scripture. There is nothing in it contradictory: somewhat there is which is obscure, not in order that it may be denied you, but that it may exercise him that shall afterward receive it. When then it is obscure, that is the Physician’s doing, that you may knock. He willed that you should be exercised in knocking; He willed it, that He might open to you when you knock” (, 10Exposition on Psalm 147).
 
Augustine (A.D. 395): “For it seems to me that most disastrous consequences must follow upon our believing that anything false is found in the sacred books: that is to say, that the men by whom the Scripture has been given to us, and committed to writing, did put down in these books anything false. It is one question whether it may be at any time the duty of a good man to deceive; but it is another question whether it can have been the duty of a writer of Holy Scripture to deceive: nay, it is not another question – it is no question at all. For if you once admit into such a high sanctuary of authority one false statement as made in the way of duty, there will not be left a single sentence of those books which, if appearing to any one difficult in practice or hard to believe, may not by the same fatal rule be explained away, as a statement in which, intentionally, and under a sense of duty, the author declared what was not true” (, 3, 3Letter 28).

Jerome (A.D. 398): “[T]here are many things in Scripture which sound incredible and yet are true” (, 2Letter 72 [The full text is not available, but this quote is excerpted by the commentary provided.]).

Jerome (A.D. 399): I know that a difference must be made between ***the apostles ***and all other preachers. The former always speak the truth; but the latter being men sometimes go astray” (, 7Letter 82).

Augustine (A.D. 400): “[T]here is a distinct boundary line separating all productions subsequent to apostolic times from the authoritative canonical books of the Old and New Testaments. The authority of these books …] claims the submission of every faithful and pious mind. If we are perplexed by an apparent contradiction in Scripture, it is not allowable to say, The author of this book is mistaken; but either the manuscript is faulty, or the translation is wrong, or you have not understood. …] Scripture has a sacredness peculiar to itself. …] In consequence of the distinctive peculiarity of the sacred writings, we are bound to receive as true whatever the canon shows to have been said by even one prophet, or apostle, or evangelist. Otherwise, not a single page will be left for the guidance of human fallibility, if contempt for the wholesome authority of the canonical books either puts an end to that authority altogether, or involves it in hopeless confusion” (, Bk. 11, 5Against Faustus).

Augustine (A.D. 400): “As to Enoch and Elias and Moses, our belief is determined …] by the declarations of Scripture, resting as they do on foundations of the strongest and surest evidence. …] [W]e can have no reason for doubting what on the high authority of Scripture is related of [Elias], unless we limit the power of God to things which we are familiar with. …] To give you in a word, without argument, the true reason of our faith, as regards Elias having been caught up to heaven from the earth, though only a man, and as regards Christ being truly born of a virgin, and truly dying on the cross, our belief in both cases is grounded on the declaration of Holy Scripture, which it is piety to believe, and impiety to disbelieve. …] The reason of our believing Him to have been born of the Virgin Mary, is not that He could not otherwise have appeared among men in a true body, but because it is so written in the Scripture, which we must believe in order to be Christians, or to be saved. We believe, then, that Christ was born of the Virgin Mary, because it is so written in the Gospel; we believe that He died on the cross, because it is so written in the Gospel; we believe that both His birth and death were real, because the Gospel is no fiction. …] But this may be confidently affirmed, that what took place was exactly as we are told in the Gospel narrative …]. We place the authority of the Gospel above all heretical discussions; and we admire the counsel of divine wisdom more than any counsel of any creature. …] The things are true; and the accurate narrative of them is intended to instruct whoever believes in Christ’s gospel in the truth, not to delude him with falsehoods” (, Bk. 26, 3, 5, 7-8Against Faustus).

Augustine (A.D. 405): “For I confess to your Charity that I have learned to yield this respect and honour only to the canonical books of Scripture: of these alone do I most firmly believe that the authors were completely free from error. And if in these writings I am perplexed by anything which appears to me opposed to truth, I do not hesitate to suppose that either the manuscript is faulty, or the translator has not caught the meaning of what was said, or I myself have failed to understand it …] I believe, my brother, that this is your own opinion as well as mine. I do not need to say that I do not suppose you to wish your books to be read like those of prophets or of apostles, concerning which it would be wrong to doubt that they are free from error” (, 1, 3Letter 82).

Every word of God proves true” (Proverbs 30:5).
 
Hey verum!

I’ve already shared some of this to you, but I wanted to repeat it here on the thread for anyone else who might be interested. To begin with, I should mention that the Clerus website is only “magisterial” in so far as it provides actual documents from the Magisterium; everything else should be weighed in light of that teaching. For example, it provides John Chrysostom’s 21st Homily on the Gospel of John. But in this homily he charges Mary with sinful desires of self-praise, saying that “she took confidence, and called Him, and said, when they wanted wine, ‘They have no wine.’ For she desired both to do them a favor, and through her Son to render herself more conspicuous; perhaps too she had some human feelings, like His brethren, when they said, ‘Show yourself to the world’, ***desiring to gain credit from His miracles. ***. Therefore He answered somewhat vehemently …]. The request ought to have come from those who needed, not from His mother. …] [T]his was a reason why He rebuked her on that occasion …].” It goes without saying that this is not in line with the current teaching of the Magisterium.

The English introductions found on that website are simply extended quotations of the introductions prepared for the NAB translation found on the USCCB website. So at least they’re not introductions prepared by the Congregation for the Clergy, which I think is a good thing in some respects. Why they chose the NAB introductions for English readers, I don’t know. 🤷 For John’s Gospel, I think the introduction for the Italian translation found there is much better (I don’t know Italian so please forgive me if the translation is bad. I used Google Translate):

Ancient church tradition says that the fourth Gospel was written by the Apostle John, the beloved of Christ, when he was very old (see John 21:23) in the Christian community of Ephesus, metropolis of Asia Minor. The Gospel was written in the late 90s and the oldest extant manuscript dates to about 150 (200 at the latest). John intends to write, like his predecessors, a gospel, despite the characteristics that clearly distance this gospel from the first three: a distancing made plain not by obscure historical information, but even by the general framework and basic facts – geographic and various other kinds – sometimes even essential information. Only John tells of an extended ministry of Jesus to Jerusalem. The Palestinian roots of the gospel are revealed in the language, which in several places is clearly Aramaic. John writes at a distance of about seventy years after the death of Jesus (A.D. 30), and prefers to choose a few facts from Christ’s life, that, because of their symbolic content, allow a deep understanding of the mystery of Christ, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit (see 14:26; 15:26, 16:13) and the supernatural light of the Church. John faithfully preserves the substance of the teachings of Jesus, while at the same time he composes them in his own literary style. One can speak of a Johannine tradition – surfacing also in Luke – partly parallel and partly complementary to the tradition reflected in the first three Gospels. The sublime prologue (1:1-18) sets forth the themes developed in the gospel. In chapters 1:19 – 4:54, the Gospel starts with a manifestation of the divine nature and divine powers of Christ; in chapters 5 – 12, the controversy with the Jews deepens essential themes of the mystery of people (?) and the mission of the Children of God; chapters 13 – 21 contain the story of the passion, the death, and the resurrection of Christ, beginning with the broadcasting of His final words confided to the disciples (chapters 13 – 17).

Perhaps one day the website will offer standard introductions so that they’re the same in every language. I’ll interact with the English introduction a little in my next post.
 
I believe your logic is seriously at odds with the current teachings of the Church. The phrase “…for the sake of salvation” is a necessary and essential part of the Church’s teachings on the bible. You may disagree with an eminent scholar of the Church such as Father Witherup but he has more magisterial approval than you or I and, writing under the imprimatur and nihil obstat, he states:

*We should note that despite some tendencies toward fundamentalism in its history, the Catholic Church has resisted using the terminology of “inerrancy” applied to the Bible. To the best of my knowledge, the word has never been used in official Church doctrine at the level of an ecumenical council. The word comes loaded with considerable baggage - a world view, we might say - that tilts toward an overly literal interpretation of the Bible. Vatican II uses the expression “without error” rather than the word “inerrancy” to avoid the innuendo of historical and scientific accuracy of the Bible (see Dei Verbum, the Constitution on Divine Revelation, 41’11; also quoted in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, §1O7). *

Although I will say more about this distinction below, we should note that the Catholic Church’s position on lack of error in the Bible embraces only doctrinal and moral teaching, not scientific or historical. Furthermore, it allows for growth in the moral perspective in the Bible, recognizing that moral insight deepened over time. Not every moral teaching in the Bible carries the same weight.
##** I’m very curious to know what sense Father W. makes of the thumping that restricted position gets in Providentissimus, & what he makes of the Papal teaching that repeated the position of Providentissimus. **

**When Newman put it forward in 1884, the limited position was condemned in Providentissimus; so there is a problem of consistency here, if Father W. is right. And how does a such position operate ? Which particular parts of the Bible are without error, & which not ? **

**Maybe such questions are reasons to read the book 🙂 **

**OTOH, any position that does not allow for increase in understanding - that denies revelation was a long drawn out process, & treats 1 Sam 15 as being as final as Matthew 5.44, say - is in trouble; it’s unsustainable. **
 
Can someone with a good knowledge of Catholic biblical studies help me out here? I am not even sure if this is the best thread for my question.I have recently downloaded “Biblia Clerus” which apparently comes from the Vatican. The main commentary claims that St Peter did not write the second epistle, St John did not write Revelations, and (which I find most worrying ) the author of the fourth Gospel put words into the mouth of Our Lord because of the contemporary rivalry between the synagogue and the Church. Apparently negative statements about the Jews were not made atall by Christ, but were made up by the author for his own purposes, and dishonestly attributed to Christ.

Other authors composed speeches which they put into the mounths of the men of whom they wrote, so why can John & Luke & the rest of the NT writers not do so 🙂 ? The line “They make a desert and they call it peace” is from the Agricola of Tacitus; the book is a biography of the author’s father-in-law. The words are part of a speech attributed to a Highland chieftain named Calgacus in AD 84; Calgacus is nerving his men to fight against the Roman invader, just before the battle of Mons Graupius (which the Romans, led by Agricola, won :(). It is improbable in the extreme that Tacitus is giving a report of Calgacus’ words verbatim, & there is no reason to think he was trying to do so. If Tacitus can be allowed to reveal character through speech in that way, why can’t St. John ?​

Livy does the same - even the most ardent admirer of Livy is unlikely to think that the speeches Livy put in the mouths of Romulus, Tarquinius Superbus, Cincinnatus, Verginius, Hannibal, & a host of others were passed down through the ages, rather than composed by the historian. Herodotus, writing about 450 BC, did the same: why should he not ? The Evangelists were not writing for people divided from them by centuries, as we are, so they make no allowance for the ignorance of such people - why should they ? They were writing for their contemporaries; so why is it so unacceptable to suggest that they relied on some of the same conventions used in composing books as men of their time used ? To complain of the NT authors for writing much as their contemporaries did is like complaining of the NT for not including haikus or sonnets. It’s completely unfair to them, to expect them to have the same literary ideas & expectations as men of a different time or culture. 😦
I am not a fundamentalist, and I am aware that the question of authorship may be more complicated than was once thought; I am also aware that the Gospel writers adapted certain details and speeches for perfectly good reasons, but my own belief ( for what it’s worth) is that if the Gospels say Our Lord said or did something , then he said or did it ( not necessarily in those precise words or in that precise way). If we are to believe that the Gospels do not give us an accurate account of Jesus’ life and teaching then are we not at the mercy of exegetes who will interpret the bIble any way they wish?

If that is the only response the scholars get for all the trouble they take to investigate the Bible, they ought really to give up trying to benefit such ungrateful people as other Catholics. Fundacatholics ought to stop maligning those whose work they show they are uncapable of understanding. :mad:

Is this really the teaching of the Catholic Church? And if not, why was it allowed into this document?Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

It’s in that document because it is perfectly orthodox to adopt such positions, & because there are sufficient reasons to justify such positions. Scholarship cannot be in hock to orthodoxy or dogma, but must go where the truth seems to lead. Even so, there is nothing unorthodox in adopting those positions.​

 
Thank you for replying to my post. Whilst I am well-informed about liturgy and have a little knowledge of theology I am pig ignorant regarding biblical studies. I am in correspondence with another poster ( Pete Holter ) who is helping me along.

As my knowledge is so poor, I am reluctant to engage with you on this topic, but, if you will have the patience to listen to someone who is determined to understand what it’s all about, I would be grateful.

May I just point out some problems with one or two of your statements, from my point of view?

If Tacitus can be allowed to reveal character through speech in that way, why can’t St. John ?

My answer to this question would be “Because Tacitus is not an inspired author.”

so why is it so unacceptable to suggest that they relied on some of the same conventions used in composing books as men of their time used

Is it really that obvious that the Evangelists “made up” whole swathes of material, and that their contemporaries understood this? Why then do the Church Fathers not say this; they seem convinced on the whole that the speeches are authentic.

If that is the only response the scholars get for all the trouble they take to investigate the Bible, they ought really to give up trying to benefit such ungrateful people as other Catholics. Fundacatholics ought to stop maligning those whose work they show they are uncapable of understanding​

I would hate to think that you are referring to my self as an "ungrateful person ". Some people would say that more humility is required from exegetes , who, unlike the Holy Father and the bishops ( no mater how unworthy many of them may be) they have no promise of divine assistance.Also, many people would feel that insulting the opposition is the last refuge of the guy with a poor argument.

It’s in that document because it is perfectly orthodox to adopt such positions, & because there are sufficient reasons to justify such positions.

Are you sure about this? My friend Pete seems to think otherwise and his arguments appear to be backed up by the magisterium.

Scholarship cannot be in hock to orthodoxy or dogma, but must go where the truth seems to lead.

Are you saying that “scholarship” is more definitive than defined dogma? So if your studies led you to believe that the Virgin Birth is not a historico-biological event, would you deny that infallible teaching of the Church?

All these quesitons assume that you are an orthodox catholic. If you are a liberal who does not believe in revealed doctrine then obviously my comments are useless.

At any rate, thanks for listening
 
The English introduction for John says of the author that “[a]lthough tradition identified this person as John, the son of Zebedee, most modern scholars find that the evidence does not support this.” In Benedict XVI’s book, Jesus of Nazareth, he says that, “ince the time of Irenaeus of Lyon (d. ca. 202), Church tradition has unanimously regarded John, the son of Zebedee, as the beloved disciple and author of the Gospel” (pg. 224). Benedict goes on to say that he “entirely concur with the conclusion that Peter Stuhlmacher has drawn …]. He holds ‘that the contents of the Gospel go back to the disciple whom Jesus (especially) loved. The presbyter understood himself as his transmitter and mouthpiece’ (Biblische Theologie, II, p. 206)” (pg. 226). Pope Benedict believes that the Gospel of John is rooted in the eyewitness testimony of John, and that the redaction process was, for the most part, carried out by the Presbyter John (see , Book 3, Chapter 39Church History for information about this figure). On the other end of the spectrum, the authors of the Catholic Encyclopedia on New Advent concluded that John the Presbyter did not even exist! :eek: Now that he didn’t exist seems highly unlikely. 2nd and 3rd John are even attributed to him by the Roman Synod of 382 (see the Enchiridion Symbolorum – this page is not displaying properly at the time of this posting. Check back later.). But whether he had a hand in editing the Apostle John’s Gospel is a debatable question and we’re left to speculate.

At any rate, the tradition concerning the authorship of the Gospel of John is, as Benedict said, unanimous, and he includes himself in that stream. That’s enough – together with other indicators from the Gospel – to satisfy me. As Leo XIII so wisely said, “*t is clear, …] that in historical questions, such as the origin and the handing down of writings, the witness of history is of primary importance” (Providentissimus Deus).

The Pontifical Biblical Commission also issued a decree on this topic in 1907:

Does the constant, universal, and solemn tradition of the Church dating back to the second century …] prove that John the Apostle and no other is to be acknowledged as the author of the fourth Gospel, and that by an historical argument so firmly established (without reference to theological considerations) that the reasons adduced by critics to the contrary in no way weaken this tradition?

Answer: In the affirmative. – Concerning the Author and Historical Truth of the Fourth Gospel, May 29, 1907

If better arguments against Johannine authorship haven’t been presented since 1907, where does that leave the person who denies John to be the author?

Let me say something about just one verse. It will help us understand other “witness” verses as well: “This is the disciple who is bearing witness about these things, and who has written these things, and we know that his testimony is true” (John 21:24). This verse may seem puzzling and taken on its face as suggesting that there are three entities mentioned here, with one being separated from the other two: an individual who “has written these things” and who is separate from the “we”; a “we” community that believes in the truthfulness of what this individual has written; and a second individual included in the “we” who is actually the one writing this verse, who confirms the community’s confidence in the witness of the first person.

Let me offer an alternative view that holds to only one person both proclaiming and confirming his own witness, and speaking on behalf of his community. We know that John [the man] is saturated by the Jewish Scriptures. And these Scriptures are replete with these same kind of alternating first-person / third-person thoughts, all having the same referent: “I [God] have chosen him …] so that the LORD…” (Gen 18:19); “Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven” (Gen 19:24); “But the LORD said to Moses, ‘Put out your hand and catch it by the tail …] that they may believe that the LORD…’” (Ex 4:4-5); etc. Examples abound. My proposal, and I’m sure that it’s been made before, is that John is picking up on this manner of speaking and using it with regard to himself. And we actually see him writing this way throughout his Gospel. Jesus says that “God so loved the world, that He gave His Only Son [Himself]…” (3:16); “I [Jesus] say to you, the Son can do nothing of His own accord” (5:19); some of my favorite words from Jesus: “this is eternal life: that they know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ [Me] Whom You have sent” (17:3); etc.

Going back to our verse… I think that we have (1) the group of believers, (2) the person whose testimony is true, and (3) the person who confirms that this testimony is true; and that these latter two persons are (1) the same entity, that is, the Apostle John, and (2) included [by the use of “we”] in the group of believers. Read spiritually, this understanding also helps to draw out a Trinitarian dimension of the text, “that they may all be one… that they also may be in Us” (John 17:21). In light of the unanimous witness of history, I suggest that this understanding of the verse be adopted as “one that makes sense of it all.” 🙂

Edit: I had originally thought to include my conclusions concerning authorship of John’s Gospel in light of inerrancy, but I opted to leave them out and let people draw their own conclusions.

A quick thought on Revelation. I think the better arguments support authorship by John the Apostle, and the earlier witnesses from history favor this position. That said, I’m not aware of there being any problem in thinking that another John may have written it. Someone please let me know if there is. Pope Benedict wrote that “it remains an open question” (same book, pg. 223). I don’t think this question is touched by the dogma of inerrancy.

In my next post I’ll continue interacting a little more with the introduction to John’s Gospel…

May God bless you!*
 
The introduction goes on to say that the Gospel has been adapted “to serve the evangelist’s theological purposes,” examples being “opposition to the synagogue of the day and to John the Baptist’s followers, who tried to exalt their master at Jesus’ expense…”. Theological purposes??? They sound more like conspiracy theories and supposed vendettas to me! 🙂

First, the synagogue. The commentators suggest that it is the opposition that occurred during the time leading up to the composition of the Gospel – rather than during Jesus’ own life – that “produced bitter and harsh invective.” We need to be on guard against the desire to manufacture a one-dimensional Jesus-caricature, full of pleasantries. It will indeed be the historical context in which the Gospel is written and the life of the community at that point in time that provide reasons for the selection of material, but it is the life of Jesus that provides for the material to be selected. Any other approach would certainly be a “violation of history” (alluding to Benedict’s words), which would no longer “faithfully hand on what Jesus Christ, while living among men, really did and taught” (Dei Verbum, 19). It is not that we have in the Gospels what the disciples wish He would have said; neither do we have what Jesus could have said or maybe, given different circumstances, really would have said. But rather, we have what “Jesus Christ, while living among men, really did and taught.” Without rereading the entire chapter on John’s Gospel, Benedict says at least three times that it is Jesus’ “disputes with the Jewish Temple Authorities”; “Jesus’ dispute with the Temple aristocracy”; and “Jesus’ self-attestation in the great Jerusalem disputes” that we find in this Gospel (pp. 219, 227, 229). He rhetorically asks how the Holy Spirit is “supposed to have the last word if the Evangelist has already violated the actual history?” (pp. 229-230). Pope Benedict also delivered a homily wherein he asserted the historical accuracy of John’s Gospel with regard to the chronology of his Passion account. And I have to point out, that I am not aware of a more difficult point of tension between the Synoptics and the Gospel of John. I would therefore infer that we can be assured of the solid historical foundation of the rest of John’s Gospel as well.

Benedict’s approach, in contrast with that of the commentators, is in perfect harmony with another response from that same decree of the Pontifical Biblical Commission mentioned in my previous post:

[M]ay it be said that the facts narrated in the fourth Gospel were invented wholly or in part, as allegories or doctrinal symbols and that the discourses of our Lord are not properly and truly the discourses of our Lord himself but the theological compositions of the writer though placed in the mouth of our Lord?

Answer: In the negative.
, May 29, 1907Concerning the Author and Historical Truth of the Fourth Gospel

John the Baptist’s followers. Noting this “opposition” seems to me more personality driven than data driven: the more cynical you are, the greater the opposition you will find on this point. Assuming a late date of composition, I think that if there really was any opposition continuing all the way into the 90’s – and I think this is an important point to make – it would have been more widespread and addressed in our literary sources by more than just John’s Gospel, and it would have been dealt with by John’s Gospel in clearer terms. John and his baptism receive passing references from the early Church in Acts, but nothing that suggests any opposition to my mind. For me, the Baptist’s repeated “I am not the one” type phrases and his exaltation of Jesus simply bespeak his great humility and serve to confirm what Jesus has elsewhere told us about him: “none is greater than John.”

The commentators appear to insinuate that Jesus’ teaching has been modified to include a fabricated tone of “bitter and harsh invective,” etc. For this reason, I think the NAB introduction for John is in indirect conflict with the dogma of inerrancy due to the Church’s assertions concerning the historicity of the Gospels and because of the level of integrity that the Church intends for us to expect from these historical narratives.

I hope everyone is having a nice weekend!

I’ll share my thoughts on Second Peter next…
 
so why is it so unacceptable to suggest that they relied on some of the same conventions used in composing books as men of their time used

Is it really that obvious that the Evangelists “made up” whole swathes of material, and that their contemporaries understood this? Why then do the Church Fathers not say this; they seem convinced on the whole that the speeches are authentic.
👍 I’d love to see an answer to this question too. The Church Fathers lived in that culture… surely they knew the ‘literary genres’ of the time? What is their take on it?
 
I’d love to see an answer to this question too. The Church Fathers lived in that culture… surely they knew the ‘literary genres’ of the time? What is their take on it?

You may already be aware of this but if not you can download for free ( free is good! ) an excellent program called “Biblia Clerus”). It is from the Vatican and gives you Greek, Latin, English etc versions of the Bible side by side and ( which is more important from our point of view ) Biblical commentairies from the Chuch Fathers ( and from Popes , the Magisterium, Aquinas etc) It is great apart from the background modern commentary which is from a single source and is rather liberal ( it is this commentary which I complained about in post #61 and which Pete ( who is indeed doing an excellent job ) is demolishing.
 
Before I begin with my thoughts on Second Peter…

Father Brian Harrison responded to my email about the Synod of Bishops. When I asked him whether I could post what he had written to me, his response was an emphatic, “Yes, that’s OK, you can post what I sent you anywhere you like. The more publicity this scandal gets, the better! Oremus!”

His email briefly addresses the Instrumentum Laboris’ in various translations:

It’s worth noting that the English-language version of the Synod’s working document is actually even worse than the authentic text! The English drafters have just fabricated part of this, rather than translating it! I have compared the English with the Latin, Italian, French and Spanish texts, and what they all say is NOT “the following can be said with certainty” but “the following can be said by way of synthesis” (or “by way of summary”).

Also, the authentic text, expressed in all the other language versions, is not “with regards to what might be inspired in the many parts of Sacred Scripture, . . .”, but “Although inspiration extends to the whole of Scripture, inerrancy applies only to ‘that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation’ (DV 11).” Of course, this last part of the sentence, with the word “only”, is still very bad, and expressly contradicts the teaching of all the relevant magisterial pronouncements upholding the full inerrancy of Sacred Scripture.

Blessings,
Fr. Brian Harrison, O.S.

Father Harrison also made me aware that he has just written an article for The Wanderer titled, “Synod Working Document Revives Biblical Inerrancy Controversy.” To access the article, select the 07.10.08 edition from the Past Editions dropdown box located on the left-hand side of the screen.

The article provides the following biographical sketch for Father Harrison:

The article’s author, the Rev. Brian W. Harrison, OS, MA, STD, a priest of the Society of the Oblates of Wisdom, is an emeritus Professor of Theology of the Pontifical Catholic University of Puerto Rico in Ponce, P. R.

He was born in Australia and, after being raised as a Presbyterian, converted to the Catholic faith in 1972. In 1979 he began studies for the priesthood in the major seminary of Sydney. He was ordained as a priest in Saint Peter’s Basilica in 1985 by His Holiness Pope John Paul II. In 1997 he gained his doctorate in Systematic Theology, summa cum laude, from the Pontifical Athenæum of the Holy Cross in Rome.

His special interest in theological and liturgical matters, in keeping with the charism of the Oblates of Wisdom, is upholding what Benedict XVI has called a ‘hermeneutic of continuity’ between the teachings of Vatican Council II and the bimillennial heritage of Catholic Tradition.

Father Harrison also let me know that he “faxed a copy [of the article] to the undersecretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.”

Thank you Father!
 
The Introduction for 2 Peter says that the author was a later writer who attributed his work to the apostle. Let us take a closer look at the “principal reasons” for this assertion made with “wide agreement” among modern scholars.

The first reason given for this assertion is that the “author refers to the apostles and ‘our ancestors’ as belonging to a previous generation, now dead (2 Peter 3:2-4).” After working through all of this, I have to say that I am really surprised that this is given as one of the “principal reasons” for doubting Petrine authorship when only a total of four such reasons are presented to justify their case. It seems rather weak, which is what I hope to prove…

If someone accepts a later author, there are basically two ways of thinking about why this author would connect “the fathers” with the apostles so as to situate all of the apostles in “a previous generation, now dead.” The first is that he simply goofed, and, while he was trying to write as if he was Peter, he let this one slip. But it can’t be both late and an attempt made by a later author to pawn off his letter as apostolic, by an author who writes without the modicum of wherewithal needed to avoid such an extremely sloppy move! This position is, I think – and I hope that all agree – absurd. The second position would see this as a purposeful insertion, a “literary device,” to help the reader pick up on the fact that this is a pseudonymous work. But if that is what he is really trying to do, he does not seem to insert these devices with any level of consistency or with a discernable rationale; in fact, there would be no other example of a device such as this one, delivered with such conspicuous obviousness! It would be the only one of its kind in that it alone irrefragably denies that Peter could have written this letter. Critics will say, for example, that the author tactically refers to himself as Simeon Peter – and also includes other biographical information – in order to pretend like he’s Peter, even going so far as to use both of Peter’s names, so that it thus becomes a sign that he really isn’t Peter! And so we have something plausibly Petrine signaling to us that he can’t be Peter. Then this same author will turn around and make the scheme clear to us by telling us that all of the apostles are dead, again meaning to signal to us by something impossibly Petrine that he can’t be Peter. Let me say it again. If there is something in the text that suggests that Peter wrote it, then this is part of a technique used to make it appear as if it’s too Peter to be Peter. If there is something in the text that suggests that Peter didn’t or even couldn’t have written it, then this too is a device used to alert the reader once again to pseudonymous authorship. In order for anything to be a device, everything has to be a device! Such so-called literary devices or techniques, in their whimsical application, are truly names without substance because they avoid any real interaction with what the text says about its author by arrogating to themselves all of the Petrine material via universal invocation. Again, I say that we can’t have it both ways. We can’t allow for a writer signaling to the reader through the use of plausible details from a person’s life and impossibilities for that same person, both to the same effect of trying to make it appear that the author is not that person. When we do this, we leave ourselves without a coherent rationale for explaining why an anonymous author would have written this letter. What we need to do in this case is to make certain that those passages that seem to suggest that Peter could not have possibly written this letter actually carry their probative weight.

In truth, there is no necessary link between “the fathers” who are now dead and the apostles mentioned two verses earlier (taken by the NAB as meaning all of the apostles), and attempts to force the connection in this way are strained at best. It must have appeared strained as well to the Fathers and Councils that determined the canon because none of them hesitated in attributing this letter to Peter. Or perhaps, what is really the case, the connection not being found in the text, the Church Fathers showed a lack of prophetic gifting in being unable to predict the unfounded assertions of modern imaginations. 🙂 The Synod of Rome, A.D. 382, says that we have “[o]f Peter the Apostle two epistles;” likewise The Third Council of Carthage, A.D. 397: “two Epistles of the Apostle Peter;” Athanasius: “of Peter, two;” likewise Augustine (of course! see Ch. 8), Jerome (see Ch. 1), Cyril of Jerusalem, Gregory Nazianzus, etc. We would be led to believe by the NAB introduction that these Councils, Doctors, and Saints were blind to the obvious, genre-identifying tip-off to pseudonymity! The fact that the commentators have automatically subsumed all of the apostles into the category of the fathers, when a straightforward reading of the passage doesn’t call for it or, as we shall see, even sit well with it after it has been made, indicates that they’re arguing from their conclusion.

I’ll continue with this point in my next post…
 
I think it makes a lot more sense to think that the commentators have simply misunderstood these verses. In fact, isn’t the death of “the ancestors,” or more literally, “the fathers,” linked in thought with “the beginning of creation”? (3:4); and wouldn’t this more naturally fix the paternal appellative upon the Jews of the Old Testament period, who also go back to creation (cf. Matt 23:30, Luke 1:55, Acts 24:14, Hebrews 3:9, ad nausea :))? And, perhaps… perhaps, the author really does have the scoffers signifying an earlier generation of older Christians now dead. I think that this is possible, though very unlikely given the immediate context of verses 4-7. But considering that some 35 years have passed since Pentecost, and that Paul wrote about some eyewitnesses to Christ’s resurrection who had already “fallen asleep” at least 10 years prior (cf. 1 Cor. 15:6), even if this interpretation was conceded, it would provide no reason to doubt that Peter is the author. And yes, granting this latter interpretation would entail “the fathers” including some of the apostles who had died before the mid to late sixties. Nevertheless, I would only concede this latter view if I was exposed to a stronger case for it than I am currently aware.

Now lest someone fear that admitting this second view comes too close to acknowledging the possibility of “the fathers” including the subset of “all of the apostles, all of whom are now dead,” let me offer two objections to my own second view to show why I don’t hold to it myself… The first comes from the flow of the author’s argument in the immediate context. Let’s hear the scoffers’ objection: “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation” (2 Peter 3:4). How does author respond? He says that “they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly” (2 Peter 3:5-7). The scoffers objected that everything has continued without change since the fathers fell asleep, and the author’s response – if “the fathers” are Christians who have died since Christ’s Ascension – completely sidesteps their charge! He gives an example from the beginning of creation, from thousands of years prior, and from who knows how far into the future; but he gives nothing cataclysmic from the years that fall between the Ascension (or the death of the first Christians shortly thereafter) and the writing of this letter! The scoffers would have to thank the author for proving their point! 🙂 Now there are other ways of understanding the flow of the argument, but I think that linking the fathers to the beginning of creation provides for a more forceful and pointed apologetic in the author’s response. And a strong defense is just what we would expect from the man who told us to always be “prepared to make an apology…,” from Peter (1 Pet. 3:15). The second objection comes from another author, and I think that it basically closes the door on this question: “The fact is that ‘Nowhere else in the New Testament nor the Apostolic Fathers is [the Greek word for fathers] used of Christian “patriarchs”* and the more natural interpretation would be to take it as denoting Jewish patriarchs’” (Is 2 Peter Peter’s? quoting Donald Guthrie, New Testament Introduction, 4th ed.). In light of this, I think that my second view and the worse-off view of the NAB introduction both constitute a form of special pleading, so I think I’ll stick with the first view for now. 🙂

As we’ve seen, there is a more plausible understanding of these verses holding much better ground over the asserted-but-not-proved apostles-fathers connection. Now, going back to the NAB’s proposal… does this piece of evidence support the idea that a later author was attributing his work to Peter? I think that the answer has to be that apart from

(1) either a serious case of amnesia/total incompetence on the part of our secret penman or a theory of universally invoked literary devices lacking a coherent rationale, and

(2) a serious lack of discernment on the part of the Church Fathers involved in the canonization process, and

(3) our having a one-of-a-kind use of “the fathers,” which makes the author [post-Pentacostal Peter] a weak apologist,

this point about the apostles being dead and gone, by creating more problems than it solves, hurts the case for a late date more than it helps and is better turned against this position.

I’ll continue examining their other “principal reasons” in subsequent posts…**
 
I’ve just started reading the May 11, 2008, *Instrumentum Laboris *for the XII Synod of Bishops and it says that “the following can be said with certainty: …] with regards to what might be inspired in the many parts of Sacred Scripture, inerrancy applies only to ‘that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation’ (DV 11)” [emphasis added].

If the way this document is worded here concerns you, please let your priests and bishops know before the bishops meet in October.

Thank you and may God bless you!
Pete
I think it’s accurate and appropriate. Too many of us cling to the belief that everything in the Bible is literally true, and constitutes scientific and historical fact, right down to the last detail. It doesn’t. Hear me right…I love the Bible, but understand it for what it is.
 
future scholars and popes will no doubt build on it.
And they will all be Thomists.

When are you heretics going to just go ahead and schism?
This stuff has been infallibly declared. It cannot be contradicted.
And you cannot have both faith and a modernist mind.

People who want to separate the “historical Jesus,” and the “Jesus of faith” need to read “Jesus of Nazareth.”

Seriously? When are you guys going to realize the revolution has failed?

Now, I’m going to go read my Tridentine Mass missal.
 
I’ve just started reading the May 11, 2008, *Instrumentum Laboris *for the XII Synod of Bishops and it says that “the following can be said with certainty: …] with regards to what might be inspired in the many parts of Sacred Scripture, inerrancy applies only to ‘that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation’ (DV 11)” [emphasis added].

If the way this document is worded here concerns you, please let your priests and bishops know before the bishops meet in October.

Thank you and may God bless you!
Pete
If this goes through, I will become a sedevacantist.
 
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