Biblical Proof for Mary as Mediatrix of All Graces?

[Genesis315]

What you described is not Biblical proof but a connectitude of logical constructions to establish the proposition, ala the Assumption.

I accept the Assumption without any reservations at all, but the proclamation made speaking to Protestants and Orthodox exceedingly more difficult.

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If declaring the truth makes speaking with people who deny the truth more difficult, the problem is theirs. You can’t hide the truth so that it’s easier to talk to people who deny it. This is the false irenicism we are told to avoid by Vatican II’s decree on ecumenism. Christ declaring the necessity of eating His flesh made it more difficult to talk to those who rejected that and they departed Him post haste. In fact, Christ declaring the truth made it so difficult to talk to some that they crucified Him.

Sometimes you just have to tell the truth and, if its rejected, dust off your sandals and move one.

So, regarding the doctrine at issue in this thread, if true it should be declared. If false, it should be proscribed.

 

[Rob_Arnzen]

If declaring the truth makes speaking with people who deny the truth more difficult, the problem is theirs.

There are many things that are true that we don’t speak. For example “God works in mysterious ways his wonders to perform” is much more acceptable than saying to a woman holding a newborn “My God, what an ugly baby!”

The question is not whether - properly defined and carefully fashioned a declaration of the proposition is true - but whether it is apt.

Christ declaring the necessity of eating His flesh made it more difficult to talk to those who rejected that and they departed Him post haste.

In discussion with Evangelicals, once we get past the difficulties of sacraments being effective ex opere operato, the Eucharist is relatively simple to explain since the Scriptural supports are relatively plentiful and clear.

Such is not the case with the Assumption, the Immaculate Conception, or this proposed definition.

So, regarding the doctrine at issue in this thread, if true it should be declared. If false, it should be proscribed.

Or it should be left alone. There are issues of faith and morals more pressing today than this one ripe for definition: ordination of women, immorality of artificial birth control, immorality of abortion, than yet another Marian dogma, especially one which requires a background in scholastic philosophy and Mary’s role in Christ’s redemptive act.

I fail to see the need it fills.

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[Prayer_Warrior]

The biblical evidence is so simple that we overlook it for Mary being the Mediatrix of all graces. God gives grace. Jesus is God. Jesus came to us through Mary his mother. Therefore, Mary can be thus the Mediatrix of all grace as there is no Jesus in the human form without the Virgin Mary. She is not equal to her son but rather works “With” him in God’s plan for salvation of us all. Everything Mary does is becuase God gives it to her. This includes her Immaculate Conception (she did nothing to deserve this but God saw it fit to do it for her so he did), her perpetual virginity (She could not remain a virgin before, during, and after Jesus’ birth but God saw it fit to give this to her so He did), her Assumption (she couldn’t do it but God saw it fit to do this for her so he did), her role as Queen of Heaven and Earth, Mother all of believers, Co-redemptrix (co meaning “with” not “equal” to her son) and Mediatrix of all Graces (again Mary could not do this but God saw it fit to do it for her so He did).

Why do we deny truth just because the truth is not spelled out using the words we want to see or read in scripture. God’s ways are high above our ways so I suggest we stop rejecting truths just because the scriptures don’t say what we want them to say in the way we expect to see. God doesn’t always work they way we want Him to. We are to submit to Him not the other way around people.

Perhaps you will be able then to answer the question that no one else has been able to answer so far. How did Mary mediate “all grace” prior to her existence? How did Mary mediate, say, the grace imparted to Moses and the 70 elders (Num 11:17).

PS. When you call Mary a co Redemptrix, do you realize you are calling Jesus a co Redeemer? People love to define what the word “co” means when they should be concentrating on what the word redeemer means. The Scriptures say “for as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one shall the many be made righteous.” Rom 5:19 Further, the Church has spoken on the matter; the Council of Trent declared “the saints, who reign with Christ, offer up their prayers to God for men; and that it is good and useful to invoke them suppliantly and, in order to obtain favors from God through His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who **alone **is our Redeemer and Savior…” Pope Pius IV Session 25.

 

[schaeffer]

Perhaps you will be able then to answer the question that no one else has been able to answer so far. How did Mary mediate “all grace” prior to her existence? How did Mary mediate, say, the grace imparted to Moses and the 70 elders (Num 11:17).

This is the point where I cannot see how the Church could ever declare Mary as the Mediatrix of All Graces without further needing to assert/declare that she, like Jesus, has been present with the Father from all time, or at least since the creation of mankind.

If she is necessarily the Mediatrix of all grace, then she had to be there mediating since day one, or the Church would have to declare that prior to the birth of Mary, no grace was imparted.

Declaring Mary to have existed for all time with The Father,Son and Holy Ghost would be a huge theological leap.

I have heard Mary referred to as the New Even and the Ark of the Convenant, but does it logically follow that she actually was/is Eve and the Ark of the Covenant, as in existed at the same time, or took the form of those things?

There are a LOT of loose ends that would first have to be addressed before formally assigning that title to her.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

This is the point where I cannot see how the Church could ever declare Mary as the Mediatrix of All Graces without further needing to assert/declare that she, like Jesus, has been present with the Father from all time, or at least since the creation of mankind.

If she is necessarily the Mediatrix of all grace, then she had to be there mediating since day one, or the Church would have to declare that prior to the birth of Mary, no grace was imparted.

Declaring Mary to have existed for all time with The Father,Son and Holy Ghost would be a huge theological leap.

I have heard Mary referred to as the New Even and the Ark of the Convenant, but does it logically follow that she actually was/is Eve and the Ark of the Covenant, as in existed at the same time, or took the form of those things?

There are a LOT of loose ends that would first have to be addressed before formally assigning that title to her.

I think the title is in reference to her mediating ALL GRACE won by her Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ by His Life, Death and Resurrection.

We are referring to the Sanctifying Grace won by Our Lord and Savior, rather than the Actual Grace bestowed on the OT dispensation based on the Law.

However, this is not a clearly defined area of theology.

 

[Abu]

Prayer_Warrior #42
How did Mary mediate “all grace” prior to her existence? How did Mary mediate, say, the grace imparted to Moses and the 70 elders (Num 11:17).
schaeffer #43
If she is necessarily the Mediatrix of all grace, then she had to be there mediating since day one, or the Church would have to declare that prior to the birth of Mary, no grace was imparted.

The redemption took place with Christ. Christ is the source of all grace received from His Father.
How did Jesus who was born in time, after Mary, as both Man and God, mediate grace?

As all salvation comes through the Catholic Church which was instituted by Christ, how could anyone be saved before?

The Baltimore Catechism:
Q. 67. Who were in Limbo when Our Lord descended into it?
A. There were in Limbo when Our Lord descended into it the souls of all those who died the friends of God, but could not enter heaven till the Ascension of Our Lord.

“Her status as Mediatrix of All graces exists in a double sense.
“First, she gave the world its Redeemer, the source of all graces, and in this sense she is the channel of all graces.
“Second, Mary is the Mediatrix of all graces because of her intercession for us in heaven. What this means is that no grace accrues to us without her intercession.”
Catholicism and Fundamentalism, Ignatius, 1988, p 278-279]

Answer by Fr. John Echert on 10-10-2002 (EWTN):
Already the Church regards her as Mediatrix of all grace; it would follow from this that if Mary is a channel of all grace, and since redemption is an act of grace, Mary cooperates completely in the work of Redemption—not as the principal and source, but as channel and partner.
tinyurl.com/m4eu965

Answer by Fr. John Echert on 04-11-2005 (EWTN):
“From the beginning of her existence and into eternally, Mary participates in the work of the Redemption of humanity. From the moment of her own conception she was preserved from original sin so that she would be a suitable mother to provide the humanity of the Incarnate Word, a model of perfection for all Christians thereafter, and the New Eve who would reverse the curse brought upon humanity by the sin of the first Eve and Adam. From womb to tomb she remained by her Son and beneath the Cross our Lord entrusted to her the entire Church, to be the spiritual Mother of all Christians. This is symbolized by the exchange of Mary and the Beloved Disciple as mother and son, as recorded in the Gospel of St. John. Mary continues as our spiritual Mother most especially through her work as our principal intercessor with her Son, when we turn to her in prayer. In fact, so closely is she linked with her Son in the work of Redemption that she deserves the title Co-Redemptrix, which signifies that she shares in the work of Redemption. Christ is the Source of all grace which He receives from His Father but Mary is the channel of grace by which we experience the effects of the grace of the Cross. Were we to say that there can be no mediators other than Christ we would have to eliminate the agency of all saints and angels, which have a lesser role but nevertheless can participate in the work of Redemption.”
tinyurl.com/nvtc3tr

Answer by Fr. John Echert on 05-13-2005 (EWTN):
No grace comes to man except from the Father, through Christ the Mediator, and Mary the Mediatrix of grace.

 

[gmanlq]

Perhaps you will be able then to answer the question that no one else has been able to answer so far. How did Mary mediate “all grace” prior to her existence? How did Mary mediate, say, the grace imparted to Moses and the 70 elders (Num 11:17).

PS. When you call Mary a co Redemptrix, do you realize you are calling Jesus a co Redeemer? People love to define what the word “co” means when they should be concentrating on what the word redeemer means. The Scriptures say “for as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one shall the many be made righteous.” Rom 5:19 Further, the Church has spoken on the matter; the Council of Trent declared “the saints, who reign with Christ, offer up their prayers to God for men; and that it is good and useful to invoke them suppliantly and, in order to obtain favors from God through His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who **alone **is our Redeemer and Savior…” Pope Pius IV Session 25.

That my friend is a most excellent question. It is a mystery to us is it not. Follow me here. God’s grace sanctifies us and saves us. Without grace we are left in our sins. Jesus is God. God completed his salvation work when Jesus died and rose from the dead for us. Therefore our salvation and God’s grace comes to us via Jesus. Jesus was born of Mary after she agreed to comply with God’s plan. Well then we have no Jesus without Mary. He could have chosen another means to bring Jesus to us but he did not. In fact He always planned to give us Jesus through Mary as Genesis 3 points to this first promise God makes to mankind. In other words, God planned and desired to bring us our salvation and his grace to us through Jesus and Mary. Take away Mary and there is no Jesus given to us though he has always existed since he is God. Mystery of course. To argue against what God is and does for us through Jesus and Mary is a test of your heart and faith. This is what Simeon alludes to in Luke 2 at the “Presentation of the temple”. This Mary / Jesus relationship will reveal the hearts of men. Some things are best just accepted without our total understanding of them. God reversed the fall of man which came through the disobedience of what was until then a perfect woman, Eve, through another perfect woman, Mary, who gave birth to his only son. That son saved us all and made God’s complete and total grace available to us. God intended it this way so we are better off accepting that without Mary there is no Jesus. Hence, co-Mediatrix. Jesus did the saving as he died and rose not Mary, but there is no Jesus without Mary’s yes to God. I think it is so cool how God creates this simple, humble and perfect woman to battle Satan. This infuriates Satan as he thinks he is better than Mary as should be above her. Yet by God’s power she will strike him at his head and she remains 2nd only to her son Jesus in all of heaven and earth.
Hope this helps.

 

[Richca]

Originally Posted by Prayer_Warrior
Perhaps you will be able then to answer the question that no one else has been able to answer so far. How did Mary mediate “all grace” prior to her existence? How did Mary mediate, say, the grace imparted to Moses and the 70 elders (Num 11:17).

I think in the same way that Jesus Christ, the God-man and universal redeemer and Savior of the human race, mediated grace prior to his existence as a God-man. The graces bestowed on the human race after the fall of Adam and Eve and prior to the incarnation and redemption wrought by Jesus Christ were bestowed on mankind in view of the incarnation and redemption wrought by Jesus Christ wherein the Blessed Virgin Mary cooperated in a wholly singular way.

This is the point where I cannot see how the Church could ever declare Mary as the Mediatrix of All Graces without further needing to assert/declare that she, like Jesus, has been present with the Father from all time, or at least since the creation of mankind.

Jesus, as a man, has not been present with the Father from all eternity nor since the creation of mankind. The incarnation of the Son of God, upon which the redemption of the world was wrought, in the most pure womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary upon her free consent took place about 2000 years ago.
In my view, the Church has already declared Mary as Mediatrix of All Graces, it is the common doctrine and teaching of the Church. Other posters have already mentioned a number of popes who have given this title to Mary not to mention the many saints who have or in using other words, imply the same thing; as well as many of the faithful who believe and live this truth. As I believe another poster has already mentioned, Vatican II references papal documents or addresses where Mary, Mediatrix of All Graces is unmistakably asserted.

 

[godisgood77]

The apparitions of The Lady of All Nations to Ida Peerdman have been officially recognized by the local bishop to be of supernatural origin. On May 31, 2002, Bishop Joseph Maria Punt of Haarlem/Amsterdam released an official letter stating “I have come to the conclusion that the apparitions of the Lady of All Nations in Amsterdam consist of a supernatural origin.”

Where do you get your information that ida Peerdman is a condemned seer? Is this your own personal opinion?

Ida Peerdeman was classifed as not authentic for 40+ years… it wasn’t until 2002 that the Bishop classified her visions a worthy of belief or private revelation. Which only means that we can believe if our heart desires or not.