Biblical Proof Text of the Trinity: All Christian Apologists welcome to join.

[Daniel_Marsh]

Steve go back a page and look at Bowman’s outline study on the trinity.

John 5:18 (New International Version)

For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Revelation 1:8 (New International Version)

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Steve if you did not figure it out Rev 1:8 is about Jesus.

Revelation 11:17
saying:We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign.

Also, if you are not aware, the phrase “who is and who was” in the aramaic targums is the divine name of God. That makes Rev 1:8 even more interresting since it is speaking of Jesus.

 

[BibleSteve]

John 5:18 (New International Version)

For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Daniel,

This sentence says Jesus was breaking the Sabbath… was he? or what this just the Jews opinion? It was their opinion that he was breaking the Sabbath, because Jesus fulfilled the Law without sin… breaking the sabbath was a sin.

Likewise the comment about his making himself equal with God is also their opinion… not truth…

If you want to hold the statement “making himself equal with God” was truth, you have to also hold “he was breaking the Sabbath” as truth…

In both cases, this was the incorrect opinion of the Jews, and the reason they were seeking to harm him…

Jesus himself pointed to his Father as the “only true God” (John 17:3) and specifically said the “Father was greater than I”

Who will you listen to, Jesus as the Son of God, or the hysterical Jews?

My vote is to listen to Jesus when he specifically talks about topic…

 

[BrewMax]

Jesus as God

Many verses in John, the epistles, and Revelation imply support for the doctrine that Jesus Christ is God and the closely related concept of the Trinity. The Gospel of John in particular supports Jesus’ divinity. This is a partial list of supporting Bible verses:

John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” together with John 1:14 “The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.” and John 1:18 “No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.”[16]The Bible says “God the One and Only” in NIV.

John 5:21 “For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.”

John 8:23–24: “But he continued,‘You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins.’”

John 8:58 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”[17]

John 10:30: “I and the Father are one.”

John 10:38: “But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

John 12:41: “Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.”—As the context shows, this implied the Tetragrammaton in Isaiah 6:10 refers to Jesus.

John 20:28: “Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’”

Philippians 2:5–8: “Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross!”

Colossians 2:9: “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form”

Titus 2:13: “while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.”

1 Timothy 3:16: “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”

Hebrews 1:8: "But about the Son he [God] says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.”

1 John 5:20: “We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.”

Revelation 1:17–18: "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.” This is seen as significant when viewed with Isaiah 44:6: “This is what the LORD says—Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.”

The Bible also refers to Jesus as a man, which is in line with the Trinitarian concept that Jesus was fully human as well as fully divine which is expressed through the theological concept of kenosis.

On this premise brother, you and I agree solidly and without waver.

 

[BrewMax]

We did use the Bible. I quoted as well as others did. Though I don’t think the Jehovah Witness has the correct translation of the Bible… It’s been altered. They lowercase the Word “God” in the first Chapter of the Gospel of John.

again, we agree solidly.

 

[BrewMax]

Steve,

I don’t believe in JW’s theology of God. This is not what is taught in Scripture. Your belief is base on the self-interpretation of Charles Taze Russell of the Bible concerning God.

and we do agree again, I do believe 3 in a row is a record for you and me.

 

[1st_Exploration]

Bible Steve and any other JWs,

I read some of the site:
watchtower.org/e/ti/index.htm
And the author of that article must be a liar or has been lied to.
They try to say that the doctrine of the trinity was not around in the early church and that the Ante-Nicene Fathers did not teach the trinity.

The article say this:

Irenaeus, who died about 200 C.E., said that the prehuman Jesus had a separate existence from God and was inferior to him. He showed that Jesus is not equal to the “One true and only God,” who is “supreme over all, and besides whom there is no other.”

I just so happen to be studying St. Irenaeus’s Proof of the Apostolic Preaching and in it he talks about the trinity and even uses the word “trinity”
In the Proof of the Apostolic Preaching translated by Joseph P. Smith, S.J. printed by Newman Press (ISBN: 0-8091-02641) on page 78, St. Irenaeus says:

The Trinity and Creatures

**Therefore the Father is Lord, and the Son is Lord, and the Father is God and the Son is God; for He who is born of God is God. **And thus God is shown to be one according to the essence of His being and power; but at the same time, as the administrator of the economy of our redemption, He is both Father and Son: since the Father of all is invisible and inaccessible to creatures, it is through the Son that those who are to approach God must have access to the Father.

And on page 109, the last page where he concludes his writing he says:

BEWARE OF HERETICS!

So error with respect to the three articles of our seal has brought about much wandering away from the truth. For either they despise the Father, or they do not accept that Son, they speak against the dispensation of His incarnation, or they do not accept the Spirit, that is, they reject prophecy. And we must beware of all such men, and flee their ways, if we really desire to be well-pleasing to God and receive from Him salvation.

Irenaeus’s “Proof of the Apostolic Preaching”

Glory to the all-holy Trinity, one God, Father and Son and all-provident Holy Spirit, for ever, amen.

St. Irenaeus talks of the trinity elsewhere in his writings. Keep in mind that St. Irenaeus is a third generation Christian who was taught by St. Polycarp, and St. Polycarp was taught by St. John, the author of a Gospel.

In conclusion Jesus is God and is a member of the trinity according to St. Irenaeus. The JW site is full of hogwash, does not know anything about the ancient Christian writers (other than their names and what they did not teach), and is a propaganda machine.

To my fellow Catholics: BEWARE OF HERETICS!
To JWs: You are being lied to!

 

[BibleSteve]

It would seem that very few here give any credence to what Jesus himself says, or what the inspired writers of the Bible say on the topic.

Instead, they want to argue about church tradition or what some uninspired person 100+ years after the death of Jesus says.

Why ignore the plain statements of Jesus at John 17:3 and the inspired Bible writers at Psa 110:1-5 and Acts 3:13…

How many times does Jesus have to say he is the “Son of God”, the “Son of the Most High”, before you’ll believe him? No matter what he says, you want to turn him into “God the Son” which is not mentioned in the Bible.

(1 Corinthians 15:24-28) Next, the end, when he [Jesus] hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 27*For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

 

[Hellisreal]

Why are you not Jesus witnesses?

Jehovah’s Witnesses originated with the religious movement known as Bible Students, which was founded in the late 1870s by Charles Taze Russell. A schism erupted in 1917 at the beginning of the presidency of Russell’s successor, Joseph Franklin Rutherford. Those who remained supportive of the Watchtower Society adopted the name Jehovah’s Witnesses in 1931 under Rutherford’s leadership. Those who did not support Rutherford formed various Bible Student groups which have retained Russell’s teachings. Jehovah’s Witnesses no longer use “Bible Students” as a formal name for their religion.

This man-religion have no Apostolic lineage and is therefore false.

 

[Hellisreal]

Daniel,

This sentence says Jesus was breaking the Sabbath… was he? or what this just the Jews opinion? It was their opinion that he was breaking the Sabbath, because Jesus fulfilled the Law without sin… breaking the sabbath was a sin.

Likewise the comment about his making himself equal with God is also their opinion… not truth…

If you want to hold the statement “making himself equal with God” was truth, you have to also hold “he was breaking the Sabbath” as truth…

In both cases, this was the incorrect opinion of the Jews, and the reason they were seeking to harm him…

Jesus himself pointed to his Father as the “only true God” (John 17:3) and specifically said the “Father was greater than I”

Who will you listen to, Jesus as the Son of God, or the hysterical Jews?

My vote is to listen to Jesus when he specifically talks about topic…

Hysterical Jews?

 

[BibleSteve]

Let’s see… Jesus Christ, the promised Messiah, and Son of God is speaking the truth to the Jews, and yet they are actively seeking to kill him, and saying he’s demonized and Satanic. AND, they are saying he is the product of fornication.

Is that the behavior of calm, rational, reasonable, and spiritually mature individuals in tune with God’s will?

(John 8:31-41) And so Jesus went on to say to the Jews that had believed him: “If YOU remain in my word, YOU are really my disciples, 32and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free.” 33They replied to him: “We are Abraham’s offspring and never have we been slaves to anybody. How is it you say, ‘YOU will become free’?” 34Jesus answered them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Every doer of sin is a slave of sin. 35Moreover, the slave does not remain in the household forever; the son remains forever. 36Therefore if the Son sets YOU free, YOU will be actually free. 37I know that YOU are Abraham’s offspring; but YOU are seeking to kill me, because my word makes no progress among YOU. 38What things I have seen with my Father I speak; and YOU, therefore, do the things YOU have heard from [YOUR] father.” 39In answer they said to him: “Our father is Abraham.” Jesus said to them: “If YOU are Abraham’s children, do the works of Abraham. 40But now YOU are seeking to kill me, a man that has told YOU the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41YOU do the works of YOUR father.” They said to him: “We were not born from fornication; we have one Father, God.”

 

[robert_ambrose]

in the book of genesis.“let us make man in our own image.” us means the trinity.

 

[MH84]

Bible Steve and any other JWs,

I read some of the site:
watchtower.org/e/ti/index.htm
And the author of that article must be a liar or has been lied to.
They try to say that the doctrine of the trinity was not around in the early church and that the Ante-Nicene Fathers did not teach the trinity.

The article say this:

I just so happen to be studying St. Irenaeus’s Proof of the Apostolic Preaching and in it he talks about the trinity and even uses the word “trinity”
In the Proof of the Apostolic Preaching translated by Joseph P. Smith, S.J. printed by Newman Press (ISBN: 0-8091-02641) on page 78, St. Irenaeus says:

And on page 109, the last page where he concludes his writing he says:

St. Irenaeus talks of the trinity elsewhere in his writings. Keep in mind that St. Irenaeus is a third generation Christian who was taught by St. Polycarp, and St. Polycarp was taught by St. John, the author of a Gospel.

In conclusion Jesus is God and is a member of the trinity according to St. Irenaeus. The JW site is full of hogwash, does not know anything about the ancient Christian writers (other than their names and what they did not teach), and is a propaganda machine.

To my fellow Catholics: BEWARE OF HERETICS!
To JWs: You are being lied to!

Thanks for this info. I am interested in this book. I have a couple of questions though.

1. When did St. Irenaeus write this?
2. I was looking at the book on the amazon website and one poster (who gave the book a 5star rating), said that they do not have the original copy of St. Irenaenus’ work, and that the book is a translation of the 9th Century Armenian manuscript. Is this true? How do we know this is a legitimate copy of St Irenaeus’ work?

Please answer if you can, thanks.

 

[mozart-250]

Before I even engage in verse slinging here…it seems to me that
there are some issues here to flush out. It seems to me that what the JW want me to believe is…

…that when the Church settled the Arian controversy the Church got it wrong (this is not even exploring the issue on when the doctrine of the Trinity was first developed). And the Church has been dead wrong since for what…1700 years or so.

Even as the church divided upon itself, none of the divisions got it right either (the Orthodox, Protestants, anabaptists etc). Finally God got a hold of Charles Taze Russell and his Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to correct where the church has been wrong for 1700 years or so.

So we have a time period of 1700 years where Christ has been divorced from an apostate church. Finally within the last 100 years or so, one sect has emerged as the true representatives of Christ on earth.

So immediately I have a choice on whom I am inclined to believe:
A. The witness of the church (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant) for 1700 years or so.
B. The witness of one sect that arose around the turn of the century.

I dunno about y’all, but I’m inclined to go with ‘A’ here.

But wait a minute. This one sect has made some incredible prophecies through the ages. Maybe God just is speaking to this one sect. So what have they said that I can check out. So what have they said:

battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev 16:14 which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced (The Time is at Hand, 1988)

No one can properly understand the work of God at this present time who does not realize that since 1874, the time of the Lord’s return in power, there has been a complete change in God’s operation (The Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1922

We see no reason for changing the figures–nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God’s dates not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble, (The Watchtower, July 15, 1894)

The present great war in Europe is the beginning of the Armageddon of the Scriptures (Pastor Russell’s Sermons 1917)

The year 1925 is a date definitely and closely marked in the Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914 (The Watchtower July 15, 1924)

What about all this talk concerning the year 1975? Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent months among serious students of the Bible. Their interest has been kindled by the belief that 1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history since Adam’s creation (The Watchtower, August 15, 1968)

Meantime, the German people are awakening to their horrible predicament. They no longer laugh as decent men and women were made to laugh, but their faces are white, pinched and filled with foreboding of what the near future will bring and is already hastening to bring to them–Armageddon, the battle of the grad day of God Almighty (Consolation Oct. 29)

I stated that the Nazis and Fascists were bent upon destroying the British Empire and that that would be accomplished (Judge Rutherford Uncovers Fifth Column, 1940)

Umm…these are…umm…umm…false.

So now the choices are:
A. The witness of the church (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant) for 1700 years or so.
B. The witness of one sect that arose around the turn of the century that has made unquestionably false prophecies concerning Jesus Christ and the date of His return.

I think I’ll stick with option A thank you and not even engage in trinity verse slinging.

 

[BibleSteve]

Dear Mozart,

Actually, ever since the Catholic church declared itself as the winner of the Trinity/non-Trinity discussion(1700 years ago), there have been millions of (non-JW) people who’ve disagreed with this Trinity concept.

You shouldn’t fool yourself into thinking this is some modern idea in just the last 100 years.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-trinitarian

 

[BibleSteve]

in the book of genesis.“let us make man in our own image.” us means the trinity.

Dear Robert,

If I say: “Let us make…” does that mean I am a Trinity with someone? Or, can it simple mean I’m talking to someone else?

In this case, YHWH is simply talking to someone else… that would be His Son Jesus…

You are reading something into this Scripture that isn’t there.

Remember, the Bible never says Trinity, never calls Jesus “God The Son”, and repeated explains that his Father is the “only true God”… Jesus continually calls his father “my God”…

Don’t overlook the obvious. List to what Jesus says himself.

 

[mozart-250]

Dear Mozart,

Actually, ever since the Catholic church declared itself as the winner of the Trinity/non-Trinity discussion(1700 years ago), there have been millions of (non-JW) people who’ve disagreed with this Trinity concept.

You shouldn’t fool yourself into thinking this is some modern idea in just the last 100 years.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-trinitarian

You’re right.

We also have had the Arians, Cathars, and Unitarians.

As I said, why should I believe in some version of Christian Restoration (the Church has been in apostatsy only to be put on the right track some 1700 years after the fact or so) versus Jesus has been with His church all along. It would seem to me that Matthew 16:18 supports the latter view of Christ and His Church.

Particularly when the church claiming to be the restored church has made prophetic statements that are just …umm… false.

 

[1st_Exploration]

Thanks for this info. I am interested in this book. I have a couple of questions though.

1. When did St. Irenaeus write this?

According to the introduction, it was written most likely after 177-8 when he became bishop of Lyons . It was written in the last two decades of the second century or the early years of the third.

1. I was looking at the book on the amazon website and one poster (who gave the book a 5star rating), said that they do not have the original copy of St. Irenaenus’ work, and that the book is a translation of the 9th Century Armenian manuscript. Is this true? How do we know this is a legitimate copy of St Irenaeus’ work?

Please answer if you can, thanks.

There was an Armenian translation made directly from the Greek probably between 570 and 590. Or it could have been translated from a Syrian version, but that is not very likely :nope: .

The introduction on page 5-6 says this:

Authenticity. That the work here presented to us is really, as the manuscript describes it, the “Proof of the Apostolic Preaching” of Irenaeus, is certain on internal grounds. The title and the name (chapter 1) of the addressee agree with the information given us by Eusebius; the work reflects the conditions of the end of the second century, and its matter and manner and many of its turns of expression agree with Irenaeus’s known writings, and with his views and preoccupations; the parallels with Adversus haereses are many and striking; in chapter 74, to mention a particular example, we have the erroneous statement that Pontius Pilate was procurator under Claudius, a peculiar error which agrees with what we know to have been Irenaeus’s opinion; and in chapter 99 the author refers to his work against heretics, using the longer title which is given by Eusebius as that of Adversus haereses.

Let me know if you have any other questions .

 

[1st_Exploration]

It would seem that very few here give any credence to what Jesus himself says, or what the inspired writers of the Bible say on the topic.

Instead, they want to argue about church tradition or what some uninspired person 100+ years after the death of Jesus says.

BibleSteve,

Then why does the JW site that YOU posted try to make an argument from the fathers? It does matter what the ancient Christian writers said, it is through their knowledge of what the apostles taught that we can interpret the Bible correctly. If you ignore the fathers and say that true Christianity disappeared right after the apostles, then you can make up whatever baloney you want about the bible. Look at the Mormons for example, or your cousins, the SDA, or deniers of the Holy Eucharist.

Dear Mozart,

Actually, ever since the Catholic church declared itself as the winner of the Trinity/non-Trinity discussion(1700 years ago), there have been millions of (non-JW) people who’ve disagreed with this Trinity concept.

You shouldn’t fool yourself into thinking this is some modern idea in just the last 100 years.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-trinitarian

The disagreement with the Catholic Church does not make it true. I would not even mention the people who disagree if I were you, because they would disagree with you too.

What is true is that the JW religion is some modern idea in just the last 100 years. It has no basis in the ancient church.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Daniel,

This sentence says Jesus was breaking the Sabbath… was he? or what this just the Jews opinion? It was their opinion that he was breaking the Sabbath, because Jesus fulfilled the Law without sin… breaking the sabbath was a sin.

Likewise the comment about his making himself equal with God is also their opinion… not truth…

If you want to hold the statement “making himself equal with God” was truth, you have to also hold “he was breaking the Sabbath” as truth…

In both cases, this was the incorrect opinion of the Jews, and the reason they were seeking to harm him…

Jesus himself pointed to his Father as the “only true God” (John 17:3) and specifically said the “Father was greater than I”

Who will you listen to, Jesus as the Son of God, or the hysterical Jews?

My vote is to listen to Jesus when he specifically talks about topic…

Frankly, I am listening to John’s commentary on it. It was John’s commentary given in the text too.

In his ministry, Jesus was talking to the Jews. As a Jew himself he would know that “Son of God” and calling God his Father would make him equal with God in their thinking. Only the worse communicator would make such a mistake in communication.

Steve, for you to make your case, you would have to argue that Jesus was the worse communicator in history. But, the fact is much of what Jesus taught was not new to judaism of his day. In fact, he got his “golden rule” as it is called from one of the rabbi’s of his time.

Even at his trail, he was found guilty of blasphemy by the Jews by claiming to be the Son of the most high.

Unless Jesus was the biggest dummy ever, he had to know that the Jews understood that he was claiming to be God.

One of the signs of the messiah was that he would be a master communicator which is required of any military leader.

Dead Sea Scroll Fragment (4Q521)

“[the hea]vens and the earth will listen to His Messiah, and none therein will stray from the commandments of the holy ones.”

“Father was greater than I” ah, the president of the US is greater than you are, that does not mean you are less than he is in nature. Are you a worm because Bush is greater than you are? A general is greater than a private in the army. What you are missing is that there is an rank of authority in the godhead. Why even call it a godhead if there is not more than one person in the trinity? God the Father has authority over when Jesus will return ( rev 1:1, Mark 13:32, Matthew 24 ), the Son has authority of being our Judge ( matthew 25 ).

As for his knowledge, Phil 2 plainly teaches that God the Son set aside the practice of such, in the words he “empited himself”. How can not empty something that is not there?

BTW, have you studied the art of communication? A master speaker takes into account how their words will be understood by his listeners.

Jesus “broke the sabbath” as they understood such by healing on it. And, the sabbath if you did not know predates the 613 Laws of Torah. What you are missing is that not every “breaking” of the sabbath is sin. For example did you drive a car on any saturaday? Did you drive to kingdom hall? Technically, you are breaking the sabbath because you are not to “kindle fire” on the sabbath. And, I am betting you drive a combustiable engine in your car. Does your house have a furance? Do you cook food on the weekend? Do you inhabit your car when you drive it?

Exodus 35:3 (King James Version)

Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.

Ps 61 O God, listen to me [Messiah]! Hear my prayer! 2 For wherever I am, though far away at the ends of the earth, I will cry to you for help.

Steve, do JW’s believe that they are indwelt by the holy spirit?

Steve read II Thess 2:1-2, there is the phrase “day of jehovah”. What is the greek word for jehovah there? Now, there is also the phrase “Lord, Jesus Christ”, since both “Lord” and “Jehovah” in that text has the same greek word, in the same exact greek grammar, would it not read in the greek, “jehovah, Jesus Christ”?
Look it up in your kingdom interlinear.

And, you keep missing the Rev 1:8 question, who is to come? Jesus!!!

Isaiah 40:3
A voice of one calling: "In the desert prepare the way for the LORD ; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God.

Matthew 3:3
This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah: "A voice of one calling in the desert, 'Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.’ "

This, in fact, is the one spoken of through Isaiah the prophet in these words: “Listen! Someone is crying out in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way of Jehovah, YOU people! Make his roads straight.’” NWT

Steve, why does Matthew apply Isaiah 40:3 to Jesus in Matthew 3:3?

 

[BibleSteve]

Let’s consider what the Bible reports about the incorrect opinions of the Jews:

They thought John the Baptist was demonized (Matt 11:18)
They thought Jesus was a glutton and a drunk (Matt 11:19)
They thought Jesus was born of fornication (John 8:41)
They thought Jesus was demonized (John 8:52)
They thought Jesus was from Satan (Matt 10:24)

That’s an awful lot of incorrect opinions being reported by the Bible.

The Jews certainly had an agenda… they were looking for a reason to kill Jesus (John 8:37), not because of any VALID crime, but because, as Jesus said:

(John 8:37-40) I know that YOU are Abraham’s offspring; but YOU are seeking to kill me, because my word makes no progress among YOU. 38 What things I have seen with my Father I speak; and YOU, therefore, do the things YOU have heard from [YOUR] father.” 39 In answer they said to him: “Our father is Abraham.” Jesus said to them: “If YOU are Abraham’s children, do the works of Abraham. 40 But now YOU are seeking to kill me, a man that has told YOU the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.

Here’s the point: Jesus spoke the truth to the Jews and they didn’t want to listen and obey. They were intent on finding INVALID fault in everything he did… Claiming he was a drunk, glutton, demonized, child of fornication, a Satanic, Sabbath breaker, who was claiming to be equal to God. Even though, NONE of this was true.

You want to base your beliefs on what the false interpretation the Jews held about Jesus, and ignore what Jesus himself said about his relationship with God? Why believe these false allegations the Jews held about what they THOUGHT Jesus was saying when you can just listen to Jesus himself?

Was Jesus breaking the Sabbath? NO.
Was Jesus claiming equality with God? NO.

Listen to Jesus himself:

(John 14:28) YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.

(John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

What would Jesus have to say to make you realize he viewed his Father as the only true God? That his Father was greater than he? It doesn’t get much more clear than that.