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c659smith
Guest
but it does not say no infant Baptism as a matter of fact it says those (who are able) does it not?
What is your definition of fast?
An infant definitely is any others who are able
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What is your definition of fast?
An infant definitely is any others who are able
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Syele
Guest
It clearly says, the one being baptized, the one doing the baptizing AND others who are able. Not the one being baptized, the one doing the baptizing IF they are able.
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c659smith
Guest
So we’ll hold back one feeding . Is that not fasting?
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justinthemartyr
Guest
This interpretation of the didache is like that of “all have sinned”
has a baby sinned? no
a mentally reterded person? no
evidently this interpretation is not covering all bases, and neither is the didache.
If it were so, then the entire church would not have been baptizing infants in every age of the church until the deformation period in the 16th century.
Also, scripture states, repent and be baptized, all of you, for the forgiveness of you sins… this promise is for you and for your children.
whole households were baptized again and again in scripture.
what? they did not have small children?
There is nothing in scripture against infant baptism.
has a baby sinned? no
a mentally reterded person? no
evidently this interpretation is not covering all bases, and neither is the didache.
If it were so, then the entire church would not have been baptizing infants in every age of the church until the deformation period in the 16th century.
Also, scripture states, repent and be baptized, all of you, for the forgiveness of you sins… this promise is for you and for your children.
whole households were baptized again and again in scripture.
what? they did not have small children?
There is nothing in scripture against infant baptism.
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LutheranDK
Guest
The contents of the New Covenant is what is written there - not the outward sign of the covenant.
The way I see it - even the most simple of coherent contextual Bible-reading settles the issue. Baptism is the circumsition of the New Covenant. Now, since no one can enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless he is born again, and as Scripture tells us that this rebirth takes place in baptism, the conclusion should be obvious…
The contrary opinion seems to have its roots in the unbiblical idea that infants/small children are saved automatically. This is quite simply not true, just as you and I are not saved automatically.
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justinthemartyr
Guest
This is SO TRUE! Scripture speaks NOTHING of a baby or infants salvation. AND if they are claimed to be saved already, and did not receive Christ as their Lord and Saviour, then that would mean that as they grow older, they are still automatically saved. But of course if they are not automatically saved as an adult, after growing up, then that means God took their salvation away from them at some point. So according to many protestant understanding concerning this matter, when do they lose their salvation and have to accept christ again?
wow, that’s confusing. I think I will stick with the wisdom of the church in that they initially ebter into the kingdom of God on this earth through baptism, normatively. This is the norm for all Christians entering into the household of God.
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holy_wood
Guest
There is no prohibitin from baptizing babies just as there is no prohibition for using contraception in the confines of marriage.
The Church however has stated that the former is necessary while the latter is a grave sin.
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holy_wood
Guest
Heres a question.
DOES EVERYONE WHO DENIES INFANT BAPTISM ALSO DENY ORIGINAL SIN?
DOES EVERYONE WHO DENIES INFANT BAPTISM ALSO DENY ORIGINAL SIN?
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peary
Guest
Children and infants can be baptized on the Faith of their parents. And THAT is biblical.
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Syele
Guest
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Fisher
Guest
Acts2:021 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
002:041 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
003:020 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
003:021 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us **(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) **by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Peter 001:017 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
001:018 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
001:019 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Ye must be born again.
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LutheranDK
Guest
Erm - I see nothing inhere against infant baptism?
Indeed, one must be born again. That is what happens in baptism.
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peary
Guest
They can be baptized on the Faith of their parents…and THAT is scriptural.
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peary
Guest
**For one thing, Paul says that Baptism takes the place of Circumcision. Babies had to be circumcized no later than eight days after birth. Those in the early church baptized their babies in lieu of circumcision.
Second, Peter wrote: “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38). But he did not restrict this teaching to adults. He added, “For the promise is *to you and to your children *and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him” (2:39). We also read: “Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16). These commands are universal, not restricted to adults. Further, these commands make clear the necessary connection between baptism and salvation, a
connection explicitly stated in 1 Peter 3:21: “Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
the historic Christian Church has always held that Christ’s law applies to infants as well as adults, for Jesus said that no one can enter heaven unless he has been born again of water and the Holy Spirit (John 3:5). His words can be taken to apply to anyone capable of belonging to his kingdom. He asserted such even for children: “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 19:14).
the text in Luke 18:15 says, “Now they were bringing even infants to him” (Greek, Prosepheron de auto kai ta brepha). The Greek word brepha means “infants”—children who are quite unable to approach Christ on their own and who could not possibly make a conscious decision to “accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior.”
The Bible nowhere says baptism is to be restricted to adults. Lydia was converted by Paul’s preaching and that “She was baptized, with her household” (Acts 16:15). The Philippian jailer whom Paul and Silas had converted to the faith was baptized that night along with his household. We are told that “the same hour of the night . . . he was baptized, with all his family” (Acts 16:33). And in his greetings to the Corinthians, Paul recalled that, “I did baptize also the household of Stephanas” (1 Cor. 1:16).
The Bible never says, “Faith in Christ is necessary for salvation except for infants”; it simply says, “Faith in Christ is necessary for salvation.” **
Second, Peter wrote: “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38). But he did not restrict this teaching to adults. He added, “For the promise is *to you and to your children *and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him” (2:39). We also read: “Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16). These commands are universal, not restricted to adults. Further, these commands make clear the necessary connection between baptism and salvation, a
connection explicitly stated in 1 Peter 3:21: “Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
the historic Christian Church has always held that Christ’s law applies to infants as well as adults, for Jesus said that no one can enter heaven unless he has been born again of water and the Holy Spirit (John 3:5). His words can be taken to apply to anyone capable of belonging to his kingdom. He asserted such even for children: “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 19:14).
the text in Luke 18:15 says, “Now they were bringing even infants to him” (Greek, Prosepheron de auto kai ta brepha). The Greek word brepha means “infants”—children who are quite unable to approach Christ on their own and who could not possibly make a conscious decision to “accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior.”
The Bible nowhere says baptism is to be restricted to adults. Lydia was converted by Paul’s preaching and that “She was baptized, with her household” (Acts 16:15). The Philippian jailer whom Paul and Silas had converted to the faith was baptized that night along with his household. We are told that “the same hour of the night . . . he was baptized, with all his family” (Acts 16:33). And in his greetings to the Corinthians, Paul recalled that, “I did baptize also the household of Stephanas” (1 Cor. 1:16).
The Bible never says, “Faith in Christ is necessary for salvation except for infants”; it simply says, “Faith in Christ is necessary for salvation.” **
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Syele
Guest
Yep Peter said repent first too. And notice there is a thing between infant and Adult called a “Child.” no one here seems to be advocating keeping children from baptism, only infants.
So whom do YOU say is “capable” ? How does one be not capable of belonging to Gods KD?
This was not about Baptism. I took my infant to Church to worship God from her being only a few days old. I myself was taken to church starting from 2 weeks old. The idea is not to keep them from Jesus. If Children are not taught about Him from a tiny child, they cant just suddenly make a decision later.
Useless argument, It nowhere says the opposite either.
I already answered these. Stephanas and The Philippian jailer we are told that they all converted as well as were baptized, just as people against infant Baptism say you should be. NONE of them have any evidence that there were even any infants IN their households at the time. We dont even know if Lydia was Married!
Tell me of your memories as an infant, How much faith did you have at that time?
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LaMar
Guest
P
peary
Guest
**If you ever involve yourself in geneaology, most Christians in the West, particularly Catholics, had their babies baptized immediately after the child’s birth up until the 20th century. And that was a two-thousand year-old tradition which is still practiced in many parts of the world.
Yep Peter said repent first too. And notice there is a thing between infant and Adult called a “Child.” no one here seems to be advocating keeping children from baptism, only infants.
Read the Greek. It’s translated ‘infant’, not child.
So whom do YOU say is “capable” ? How does one be not capable of belonging to Gods KD?
**Jesus said “Let the little children come to me, for their’s is the kingdom.” **
This was not about Baptism. I took my infant to Church to worship God from her being only a few days old. I myself was taken to church starting from 2 weeks old. The idea is not to keep them from Jesus. If Children are not taught about Him from a tiny child, they cant just suddenly make a decision later.
Useless argument, It nowhere says the opposite either.
I already answered these. Stephanas and The Philippian jailer we are told that they all converted as well as were baptized, just as people against infant Baptism say you should be. NONE of them have any evidence that there were even any infants IN their households at the time. We dont even know if Lydia was Married!
There is no biblical evidence to say that there wasn’t. For you to surmise that there is is bias on your part. “Whole households” means exactly that…everyone IN the house, including infants, if they were present. The Church’s tradition of baptizing infants dates back to the early days of the Church. For you to all of a sudden say ‘no’ is just bad history or, even worse, ‘revisionist’ historyon your part.
Tell me of your memories as an infant, How much faith did you have at that time?
My faith is based on the faith of my parents. They presented me to the Church in Baptism promising the Lord and the Church that they would raise me in the Faith. You also seem to forget that Baptism clears the soul of the stain of original sin (unless you reject that too) as well as begins us on the journey of salvation. My memories as an infant are irrelevant. What IS relevant is that my parents, upon their own Faith, made a covenant with God and with the Church to raise me in the Faith and spoke for me to the Christian community.For that I shall always be grateful.
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c659smith
Guest
Jesus was presented as an Infant to God, are we to be different.
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peary
Guest
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