Biblical Refutation Of the Trinity

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Biblical Refutation Of the Trinity

here some verses refute the trinity and refute divinity of Jesus (pbuh)
its worthy to read

Mark 12:28-29 - God is one.
Exodus 33:20, John 1:18, 1 Timothy 6:16 - No one saw God.
Isaiah 42:8 - Do not praise and worship images.
Isaiah 45:1 - “Anointed” does not mean “God”.
Matthew 14:23, 19:13, 26:39, 27:46, 26:42-44 - Jesus prayed.
Matthew 24:36 - Jesus was not all-knowing.
Matthew 26:39 - Jesus and God had different wills.
Matthew 28:18 - All power was given to Jesus.
Mark 1:35, 6:46, 14:35-36 - Jesus prayed.
Mark 10:17-18 and Luke 18:18-19 - Jesus denied divinity.
Mark 13:32 - Jesus was not all-knowing.
Mark 16:19 and Luke 22:69 - Jesus at the right hand of God.
Luke 3:21, 5:16, 6:12, 9:18, 9:28, 11:1-4, 22:41 - Jesus prayed.
Luke 4:18, 9:48, 10:16 - Jesus was from God.
Luke 7:16, 13:33, 24:18-19 - Jesus was a prophet.
Luke 10:21 - Jesus gave thanks.
Luke 23:46 - The spirit of Jesus was commended to God.
John 4:19 - Jesus was a prophet.
John 4:23-24 - Worship in spirit and truth.
John 14:28 - One was greater than the other.
John 5:19, 5:30, 7:28, 8:28 - Jesus was helpless.
John 5:20 - The Father showed the son.
John 5:30 and 6:38 - Jesus and God had different wills.
John 5:31-32 - Jesus’ witness was not true.
John 6:11 and 11:41-42 - Jesus gave thanks.
John 6:32 - The Father was the provider, not the son.
John 7:29, 16:5, 16:28 - Jesus was from God.
John 7:16, 12:49, 14:24, 17:14 - Jesus’ words were not his.
John 8:42 - Jesus did not come of himself.
John 10:29 - “My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all.”
John 14:1 - Jesus said, “…believe also in me.”
John 14:16, 17:1, 17:9, 17:11, 17:15 - Jesus prayed.
John 14:31 and 15:10 - Jesus followed commands.
John 17:6-8 - “I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me.”
John 20:17 - Jesus had a god.
Acts 2:22 - Jesus was “a man approved of God.”
Romans 8:34 - Jesus was an intercessor.
1 Timothy 2:5 - Jesus was the mediator between God and humans
 
Are you trying to prove that Jesus is a human being?
Of course he is. He has a human nature: a human body, a human soul, a human intelligence and will.

But this is who he is: one divine Person, who possesses the one divine nature of God: eternal, omnipotent, timeless, pure spirit, immaterial.

Person answers the question: Who?
Nature answers the question: What?

Jesus is one who. One divine person.
With the one divine nature of God.
Who chose to assume a human nature.

One person.
Two natures.

One who.
Two whats.
 
I am wondering you insist to believe in the divinity of Jesus despite clearly Jesus Said he is a prophet and he neither God nor son of God
Please read again

Mark 10:17-18 and Luke 18:18-19 - Jesus denied divinity.
Mark 13:32 - Jesus was not all-knowing.
Mark 16:19 and Luke 22:69 - Jesus at the right hand of God.
John 4:19 - Jesus was a prophet.
Luke 7:16, 13:33, 24:18-19 - Jesus was a prophet.
John 14:28 - One was greater than the other.
John 5:19, 5:30, 7:28, 8:28 - Jesus was helpless.

John 7:16, 12:49, 14:24, 17:14 - Jesus’ words were not his.
John 14:31 and 15:10 - Jesus followed commands.
John 5:30 and 6:38 - Jesus and God had different wills.
Mark 12:28-29 - God is one.
and the rest
 
While I do believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ(as he is God, second member of the Godhead), I do, as a Latter Day Saint, believe that he is separate from the Father and Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit and Son are subordinate to the Father. Many of those verses cited show the CoJCoLDS teaching.
 
CoJCoLDS=The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
We basically believe in one Godhead, three separate personages, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Different from the mainstream notion of God being Triune in nature, ie. three persons of one essence or substance(consubstantial).
 
Actually this does not make any sense 3=1 and how they believe that Jesus was stripped of his Godly powers and in same time he is omnipotent, this is really reflect the confusion in this doctrine, I am not blaming you because even the Christians scholars don’t introduce nor explain the trinity.

Those verses above are agreed with Islam. That Jesus was not God nor son of God and he was no more than Prophet.

Peace
 
gurrato alaien:
Biblical Refutation Of the Trinity

here some verses refute the trinity and refute divinity of Jesus (pbuh)
its worthy to read

…

.
Click to expand...
Peace to you brother gurrato alaien,

The biblical verses you quoted do not refute the trinity - and yes, only proving that Jesus is human. In his human form, Jesus’ actions on earth have become for us perfect examples to follow on how to live as one.

Seem you do not fully understand the concept of the trinity. Put it very simply, trinity is one God. The second person of the trinity, the Son, is both true man and true God in his nature. It is all very logical if you try to understand the concept with an open mind. In other word, you need to shift your paradigm from a predetermined theology to understand this. Doesn’t matter whether you agree or not with it, but just for the sake of understanding at this stage.

I posted this in another thread before (Catechism explained). Hope this will help toward understanding the trinity especially the person of Jesus as the second person of the Holy Trinity.

Jesus is truly God and truly man, composed of body and rational soul; that he is the same substance with the Father in his divinity, of the same substance with us in his humanity, like us in every respect except for sin. (ref. Council of Chalcedon, A.D. 451).

Jesus possesses two distinct but inseparable natures, the divine and the human, united in one person. How are these 2 natures perfectly joined into one person? This remains a mystery. (Mystery is something greater than human mind can grasp). In essence God is a mystery except for the facts we know about him as been revealed to us.

Chalcedon could declare only that they ARE joined, not how. Creeds and theological definition about God or Jesus can distinguish what is true and what is false, but they can never exhaust the mystery of the reality of God and his plan.

When we speak of Jesus’ two natures, it would be easy to think of Jesus behaving like a split personality – at one moment doing something human, the next moment doing something only God could do. Those who followed Jesus did not perceive him this way because these 2 natures in Jesus worked together in perfect harmony. Jesus human nature and human will were so conformed to his divine nature and divine will that the two were joined into an inseparable harmony so that we can truly say that Jesus was one person, not two, but composed of a divine and a human nature.

The divine nature of Jesus Christ is perceived by us only as it is reflected through the fullness and perfection of his human nature. As a man, Jesus came to do the will of his Father, God. As the Son of God, he alone was capable of doing this perfectly, being the only – begotten divine person, the Son of God incarnate.

The eternal son also assumed a rational, human soul (CCC 471). Jesus possesses two wills, divine and human, which cooperate so perfectly that Jesus in perfect obedience to the Father and his plan of salvation, always will humanly whatever his divine will dictates.

Rational human soul also means he had a human mind and knowledge as the Son of God. How these 2 “minds” work together do puzzled Christians. What did Jesus, as one person, really know when he was on earth? How could his human knowledge, naturally limited, be reconciled with his omniscience as the Son of God?

In becoming man, the eternal Word of God truly did empty himself – just as he accepted the limitation of a human body, he also accepted the limitation of a human mind. In his human nature, Jesus had to grow in knowledge and learn many things from experience, since he was like us in all things except sin.

Yet, the Bible testifies that Jesus spoke of things that only God would know, such as his intimate knowledge of his Father in heaven (see Mt 11:27, Mk 14:36, Jn 1:18, 8:55). How do we reconcile these?

Simply.
“By its union to the divine wisdom, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal. What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal” (CCC 474).​


A clear example of the latter is found in Mk 13:22. In this text, Jesus was asked directly when the fulfillment of God’s Kingdom would come about. He answered that not even the Son knows this, but only the Father.​

God bless.
 
Reuben J:
Peace to you brother gurrato alaien,

The biblical verses you quoted do not refute the trinity - and yes, only proving that Jesus is human. In his human form, Jesus’ actions on earth have become for us perfect examples to follow on how to live as one.

Seem you do not fully understand the concept of the trinity. Put it very simply, trinity is one God. The second person of the trinity, the Son, is both true man and true God in his nature. It is all very logical if you try to understand the concept with an open mind. In other word, you need to shift your paradigm from a predetermined theology to understand this. Doesn’t matter whether you agree or not with it, but just for the sake of understanding at this stage.

I posted this in another thread before (Catechism explained). Hope this will help toward understanding the trinity especially the person of Jesus as the second person of the Holy Trinity.

Jesus is truly God and truly man, composed of body and rational soul; that he is the same substance with the Father in his divinity, of the same substance with us in his humanity, like us in every respect except for sin. (ref. Council of Chalcedon, A.D. 451).

Jesus possesses two distinct but inseparable natures, the divine and the human, united in one person. How are these 2 natures perfectly joined into one person? This remains a mystery. (Mystery is something greater than human mind can grasp). In essence God is a mystery except for the facts we know about him as been revealed to us.

Chalcedon could declare only that they ARE joined, not how. Creeds and theological definition about God or Jesus can distinguish what is true and what is false, but they can never exhaust the mystery of the reality of God and his plan.

When we speak of Jesus’ two natures, it would be easy to think of Jesus behaving like a split personality – at one moment doing something human, the next moment doing something only God could do. Those who followed Jesus did not perceive him this way because these 2 natures in Jesus worked together in perfect harmony. Jesus human nature and human will were so conformed to his divine nature and divine will that the two were joined into an inseparable harmony so that we can truly say that Jesus was one person, not two, but composed of a divine and a human nature.

The divine nature of Jesus Christ is perceived by us only as it is reflected through the fullness and perfection of his human nature. As a man, Jesus came to do the will of his Father, God. As the Son of God, he alone was capable of doing this perfectly, being the only – begotten divine person, the Son of God incarnate.

The eternal son also assumed a rational, human soul (CCC 471). Jesus possesses two wills, divine and human, which cooperate so perfectly that Jesus in perfect obedience to the Father and his plan of salvation, always will humanly whatever his divine will dictates.

Rational human soul also means he had a human mind and knowledge as the Son of God. How these 2 “minds” work together do puzzled Christians. What did Jesus, as one person, really know when he was on earth? How could his human knowledge, naturally limited, be reconciled with his omniscience as the Son of God?

In becoming man, the eternal Word of God truly did empty himself – just as he accepted the limitation of a human body, he also accepted the limitation of a human mind. In his human nature, Jesus had to grow in knowledge and learn many things from experience, since he was like us in all things except sin.

Yet, the Bible testifies that Jesus spoke of things that only God would know, such as his intimate knowledge of his Father in heaven (see Mt 11:27, Mk 14:36, Jn 1:18, 8:55). How do we reconcile these?

Simply.
“By its union to the divine wisdom, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal. What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal” (CCC 474).​


A clear example of the latter is found in Mk 13:22. In this text, Jesus was asked directly when the fulfillment of God’s Kingdom would come about. He answered that not even the Son knows this, but only the Father.​

God bless.
Click to expand...
Thank u brother, but this is not true, those verses above refute the divinity of Jesus, as we can see here clearly,
Mark 10:17-18 and Luke 18:18-19 - Jesus denied divinity.
So if he fully man and fully God he would not deny his divinity

Peace.
 
gurrato alaien:
Biblical Refutation Of the Trinity

here some verses refute the trinity and refute divinity of Jesus (pbuh)
its worthy to read

Mark 12:28-29 - God is one.

Yes, there is one God. God is one. But 3 persons. cf Jj10:30 “The Father and I are one”

Exodus 33:20, John 1:18, 1 Timothy 6:16 - No one saw God.

Jn1:18 NAB - “No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.”

Please don’t refer to only half a verse, taken out of context. After all, in this passage Jesus is called the Logos (Word) through whom all things came to be. He sounds like rather more than just a man or a prophet doesn’t he?

Ex33:20 - well, who has seen God in all his glory. We couldn’t live if we did, being sinful as we are. But even so, he has revealed himself in and through Jesus, incarnate God the son who “emptied himself, taking the form of a slave” (Phi2:7)

1Tim6:16 - have I ever been caught up to God in the unapproachable light, have I seen Him there in al his glory? No. And yet, as Jn1:18 says (see above) Jesus, the only Son, God, has revealed him to us since he is fully God.

Isaiah 42:8 - Do not praise and worship images.

Ok then. I won’t. I don’t anyway and don’t know anyone who does. As all good Catholics, I prefer to give glory to God just as the verse says.

Isaiah 45:1 - “Anointed” does not mean “God”.

You won’t get any argument from me. Then again, the doctrine of the Trinity or of the 2 natures of Christ does not rest in any way on the translation of anointed.

Matthew 14:23, 19:13, 26:39, 27:46, 26:42-44 - Jesus prayed.

Your point is? To pray is to ask. I find no probem in seeing Jesus, fully God and fully man, who had laid aside so much when he walked on earth, communicating with the Father.

Matthew 24:36 - Jesus was not all-knowing.

It’s always interesting how Jesus did not know the hour when he will return. Perhaps he knows now that he is glorified. Philippians chapter 2 is crucial to understanding the 2 natures of Christ as he walked on Earth. Without knowing about the kenosis (Christ’s self emptying) and the pleroma (Christ’s exaltation and thus fullness) it is hard to understand how he can be fully God and fully man.

Matthew 26:39 - Jesus and God had different wills.

Remember, Jesus is not believed to be just God, but fully human. What human would not want to avoid such horrible suffering. In his humanity he would much preferred like anyone else not to have to do this. But there was no other way. It was the will of the Father. And so it was also the will of the Son, who remained sinless and followed the will of the Godhead in the midst of the depths of human temptation. In the end the will of Jesus is the will of God no matter how painful carrying out that will is.

Matthew 28:18 - All power was given to Jesus.

Since you say that Jesus is not God, then logically God must not have any power now. So why don’t you follow Jesus? That logic is silly isn’t it.

Maybe he is Lord, he is God the Son. Actually there are several meanings of exousia, which do you think is right? The fact that he was given all power relates, again, to the kenosis and exaltation I’ve already mentioned.

btw - it’s not essential to know words like kenosis. Most Christians don’t. It’s only a theology degree that makes me know odd words like that! But here’s a useful article for you to read on what the Catholic Church teaches:

newadvent.org/cathen/08617a.htm

Mark 1:35, 6:46, 14:35-36 - Jesus prayed.

See above

Mark 10:17-18 and Luke 18:18-19 - Jesus denied divinity.

Mk10:17 - Gill’s commentary puts it clearly: "This is said, not as denying that he was good, or as being angry with him for calling him so, but in order to lead this young man to a true knowledge of him, and his goodness, and even of his proper deity: "

Lk18:18-19 - the same passage from Luke.

Mark 13:32 - Jesus was not all-knowing.

See Mt24:36

continued…
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…continuation
gurrato alaien:
Biblical Refutation Of the Trinity

Mark 16:19 and Luke 22:69 - Jesus at the right hand of God.

You can take it literally if you like. Trouble is you then have “God” being the size of a human which isn’t Catholic or Islamic teaching.

Bear in mind that being seated in this way is an image of rest - Jesus had finished his work. It is a position of rulership - taking possession of his Kingdom. Bear in mind that “right hand” denotes sovereign dignity and universal power. Now Jesus is glorified (Phi2 again) with the glory he had before the foundation of the world (eg Phi2, Jn1, Col2 etc)

Luke 3:21, 5:16, 6:12, 9:18, 9:28, 11:1-4, 22:41 - Jesus prayed.

See above

Luke 4:18, 9:48, 10:16 - Jesus was from God.

Yes, we know the Father sent the Son. I would suggest that you read up about “procession”, a doctrine we speak of every week when we recite the creed. I’d suggest I read up on it too as I don’t know enough about it. Here’s something by Thomas Aquinas to give us both a start:

newadvent.org/summa/102700.htm

Luke 7:16, 13:33, 24:18-19 - Jesus was a prophet.

Yes, good Catholic doctrine. He was, and is, a prophet. He is also a priest and a king - even the eternal high-priest and the King of Kings.

Luke 10:21 - Jesus gave thanks.

It wouldn’t have been good NOT to give his Father thanks would it?

Luke 23:46 - The spirit of Jesus was commended to God.

Where else would he commend, or commit, his spirit; one person, divine and human, but to the Father? The one who would exalt him and give him the name above every names that everyone would confess that he is LORD. (Phi2 again)

John 4:19 - Jesus was a prophet.

See above

John 4:23-24 - Worship in spirit and truth.

Right, I’m out of time. I might find time to finish this later, but probably not given the amount I’m meant to be doing today. Please gurrato alaien take note of what I’ve written. It’s been very brief and basic exegesis - sorry I haven’t had time for anything more.

I really recommend you read up on the kenosis, and the divine procession. It would be worth it and help you to see that none of these verses, when understood in context, are contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Blessings to you and good fortune in your studies.

John 14:28 - One was greater than the other.
John 5:19, 5:30, 7:28, 8:28 - Jesus was helpless.
John 5:20 - The Father showed the son.
John 5:30 and 6:38 - Jesus and God had different wills.
John 5:31-32 - Jesus’ witness was not true.
John 6:11 and 11:41-42 - Jesus gave thanks.
John 6:32 - The Father was the provider, not the son.
John 7:29, 16:5, 16:28 - Jesus was from God.
John 7:16, 12:49, 14:24, 17:14 - Jesus’ words were not his.
John 8:42 - Jesus did not come of himself.
John 10:29 - “My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all.”
John 14:1 - Jesus said, “…believe also in me.”
John 14:16, 17:1, 17:9, 17:11, 17:15 - Jesus prayed.
John 14:31 and 15:10 - Jesus followed commands.
John 17:6-8 - “I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me.”
John 20:17 - Jesus had a god.
Acts 2:22 - Jesus was “a man approved of God.”
Romans 8:34 - Jesus was an intercessor.
1 Timothy 2:5 - Jesus was the mediator between God and humans
Click to expand...
 
gurrato alaien:
I am wondering you insist to believe in the divinity of Jesus despite clearly Jesus Said he is a prophet and he neither God nor son of God
Please read again
Click to expand...
Your just going over old ground, we have passed this way before in 2005.

CCC 653 The truth of Jesus’ divinity is confirmed by his Resurrection. He had said: “When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he.” The Resurrection of the crucified one shows that he was truly “I AM”, the Son of God and God himself. So St. Paul could declare to the Jews: “What God promised to the fathers, this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus; as also it is written in the second psalm, ‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you.’” Christ’s Resurrection is closely linked to the Incarnation of God’s Son, and is its fulfillment in accordance with God’s eternal plan.

CCC 455 The title “Lord” indicates divine sovereignty. To confess or invoke Jesus as Lord is to believe in his divinity. “No one can say ‘Jesus is Lord’ except by the Holy Spirit’” (1 Cor 12:3). Here
 
Myself - I think this says it all:

JN 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
JN 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
JN 1:3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
JN 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
JN 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
JN 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
JN 1:7 This man came for a witness, to give testimony of the light, that all men might believe through him.
JN 1:8 He was not the light, but was to give testimony of the light.
JN 1:9 That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world.
JN 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
JN 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
JN 1:12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name.
JN 1:13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
JN 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
JN 1:15 John beareth witness of him, and crieth out, saying: This was he of whom I spoke: He that shall come after me, is preferred before me: because he was before me.
JN 1:16 And of his fulness we all have received, and grace for grace.
JN 1:17 For the law was given by Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
JN 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Along with everything everyone else has posted - if you wish to believe, then - believe.

Peace

John
 
No disrespect intended, but it seems to me that Islam carries with it an anti-philosophical mindset. It does not seem prepared to make the simple distinction between person and nature needed to discuss the Trinity.

Muslims usually don’t like to even discuss the nature of God in philosophical terms.
For example, is Allah matter or spirit? If one cannot discuss whether or not God is pure spirit in his essence, how can one discuss the Trinity, which requires making such distinctions?

Jesus is one Person with two natures. When the apostle John, speaking of Jesus, says (purposely reflecting the beginning of Genesis), “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,” he is making a profound statement about a Person he has known as a man and yet as God. Thomas the Apostle, seeing Jesus after the resurrection, exclaims, “My Lord and my God.”
 
gurrato alaien:
Thank u brother, but this is not true, those verses above refute the divinity of Jesus, as we can see here clearly,
Mark 10:17-18 and Luke 18:18-19 - Jesus denied divinity.
So if he fully man and fully God he would not deny his divinity

Peace.
Click to expand...
Look more closely. Jesus never denies His divinity in those verses.
 
gurrato alaien,

As Islam teaches the Bible is corrupt I find it odd you are using what you believe to be corrupt in an attempt to prove your agenda.

Why try to bolster your own faith by claiming the Bible is corrupt, then using the same thing you have declared altered to validate your claim? If it is truly corrupted and you cannot show exactly what has been altered you should not use it as a source.

As you are using the Bible as I source are you saying the Bible is not corrupt? Or are you claiming only those things in the Bible that do not fully support your agenda are corrupt?

Muslims cannot provide the world with a “non-corrupted” copy to substantiate the claim that the Bible is corrupt. In fact I have yet to read of any Muslim who has been able to offer any evidence of any corruption aside from stating that the Quran shows it to be so.

As I have read many times on this forum, if you are truthful bring your evidence.

Peace,

George
 
No one can refute the Trinity Biblically if they actaully understand what it is.

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic Faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One, the Glory Equal, the Majesty Co-Eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father Uncreate, the Son Uncreate, and the Holy Ghost Uncreate. The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Etneral and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal. As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Uncomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord. For, like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, there be Three Gods or Three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father, and of the Son neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity is Trinity, and the Trinity is Unity is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting Salvation, that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.

God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the substance of His mother, born into the world. Perfect God and Perfect Man, of a reasonable Soul and human Flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood. Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but One Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into Flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by Unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one Man, so God and Man is one Christ. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into Hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.

It would be pointless to me to post ALL the Scripture backing up the proof that Jesus is the Son of God and 2nd person of the Holy Trinity. But let’s start with this one:

Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 20:28

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Matthew 28:19

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Baptism is in one name, and God has only one name…

John 8:58

Before Abraham was, I am. < Jesus uses the name of God Almighty so the Jews go to stone Him, but He escapes.

Psalm 148:1-2 - the angels worship the Lord God - Heb. 1:6 - the angels worship Jesus. Only God is worshiped.

Rev. 2:8

And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

If you need anymore, there’s hundreds of 'em. Just let me know. P.S. I used to believe like you too as a matter of fact, one of my best friends was an SDA (although I admit most do believe in the Trinity).
 
George Waters:
gurrato alaien,

As Islam teaches the Bible is corrupt I find it odd you are using what you believe to be corrupt in an attempt to prove your agenda.

Why try to bolster your own faith by claiming the Bible is corrupt, then using the same thing you have declared altered to validate your claim? If it is truly corrupted and you cannot show exactly what has been altered you should not use it as a source.

As you are using the Bible as I source are you saying the Bible is not corrupt? Or are you claiming only those things in the Bible that do not fully support your agenda are corrupt?

Muslims cannot provide the world with a “non-corrupted” copy to substantiate the claim that the Bible is corrupt. In fact I have yet to read of any Muslim who has been able to offer any evidence of any corruption aside from stating that the Quran shows it to be so.

As I have read many times on this forum, if you are truthful bring your evidence.

Peace,

George
Click to expand...
Brother,
Actually I am wondering, when we cite from Quran to prove that Jesus was no more than prophet, you say we don’t believe in Quran, and when we cite from your book this also not acceptable from you.

Yes we believe that the bible has been corrupted through centuries and man words mixed with God words.
What Christians failed to understand is that Christians have committed a great blasphemy by trying to attribute a son to God.

Read this from (Judges 16:1) “Then went Samson to Gaza, and saw there a harlot, and went in unto her.”
Is this the word of God !!!

Read Genesis chapter 38, verses 6 to 25. (no comment).

Please read:
50000 ERRORS IN THE BIBLE

jamaat.net/bible/Bible4-6.html

Contradictions and Errors in the Biblical Text

islam4all.com/part_2__contradictions_and_errors_in_the_biblical_text.htm

I have more links if you want.

Peace.
 
Please read:
50000 ERRORS IN THE BIBLE
Click to expand...
st. augustine says there are two reasons for supposed errors: 1) false interpretation 2) false translation.

please, wasn’t it mohammed who claimed to have recieved demonic revelation which was later removed from the koran? he essentially admited he made a mistake. so how can we trust anything he said?

besides, it’s much more likely that he and joe smith recieved their revelation from a demon. both believe that Jesus is less then the Father or God, and both revelations can’t be shown to be apostolic or from the scriptures which say that this kind of stuff is from antichrist.

it is interesting how similar or how much parallel there is between mormonism and islam. both claim that there was some apostacy or tampering with scriptures to account for the non-historical or novel origins of their faith. Christianity doesn’t need some conspiracy to be proven true. the new testament fulfills the old. we believe that all the scriptures speak of the Word of God. there is no need for an alleged conspiracy.
 
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