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ClemtheCatholic
Guest
Other than the guy cured by Elisha’s bones - are there scripture quotes or passages that back-up the Church on this subject?
Thanks,
ClemtheCatholic
Thanks,
ClemtheCatholic
- Status
J
JerryZ
Guest
He wasn’t curedOther than the guy cured by Elisha’s bones - are there scripture quotes or passages that back-up the Church on this subject?
Thanks,
ClemtheCatholic
HE Resucitated 
II Kings 13:21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.
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R_C
Guest
Check this official document:
Directory on popular piety and the liturgy: VENERATION OF THE SAINTS AND BEATI
Directory on popular piety and the liturgy: VENERATION OF THE SAINTS AND BEATI
T
thistle
Guest
D-R BibleHe wasn’t cured
II Kings 13:21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.
21 *And some that were burying a man, saw the rovers, and cast the body into the sepulchre of Eliseus. And when it had touched the bones of Eliseus, the man came to life, and stood upon his feet.
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pablope
Guest
And its jewish roots…calledtocommunion.com/2012/08/relics-saints-and-the-assumption-of-mary/Other than the guy cured by Elisha’s bones - are there scripture quotes or passages that back-up the Church on this subject?
Thanks,
ClemtheCatholic
C
ClemtheCatholic
Guest
Thanks everybody!
F
Fr_of_Jazz
Guest
Here’s what I have:Other than the guy cured by Elisha’s bones - are there scripture quotes or passages that back-up the Church on this subject?
Thanks,
ClemtheCatholic
2 K 13:20-21 – Elijah’s bones bring a dead man back to life
2 K 2:11-14 – Elijah’s mantle parts the Jordan River when used by Elisha
Mt 9:20-22 – Woman cured of hemmorhage touching Jesus garment.
AA 19:11-12 – So extraordinary were the mighty deeds God accomplished at the hands of Paul that when face cloths or aprons that touched his skin were applied to the sick, their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them.
Mt 14:35-36 – People brought to him all those who were sick and begged him that they might touch only the tassel on his cloak, and as many as touched it were healed.
Mk 6:56 – Whatever villages or towns or countryside he entered, they laid the sick in the marketplaces and begged him that they might touch only the tassel on his cloak; and as many as touched it were healed.
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panevino
Guest
Not a relic but relevant
Acts 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon’s porch…
15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid [them] on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
Acts 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon’s porch…
15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid [them] on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
C
ClemtheCatholic
Guest
These scripture passages are very useful
The reason I made this thread is because there’s a women I know who left the Catholic Church because of a frightening childhood experience involving a rather graphic relic… now being Protestant, she only accepts strictly Biblical stuff (i.e. not tradition or examples of brilliant people through the ages). Though I can always tackle her on the other side by saying that if the Catholic Church is the one, true Church - whatever it says is true
The reason I made this thread is because there’s a women I know who left the Catholic Church because of a frightening childhood experience involving a rather graphic relic… now being Protestant, she only accepts strictly Biblical stuff (i.e. not tradition or examples of brilliant people through the ages). Though I can always tackle her on the other side by saying that if the Catholic Church is the one, true Church - whatever it says is true
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Fr_of_Jazz
Guest
Thanks. I appreciate it.
P
PoorKnight
Guest
Peace be with you!
I wrote the following for a protestant radio show host who was curious why Catholics would send a vial of blood to a Mexican shrine. Some paragraphs don’t have as much to do with relics but it will give you what my research shows… enjoy!
As for relics. The Catholic position is that honoring relics (not ‘worshiping’ but giving honor to - aka ‘venerating’) and asking God to use them in His ministry, is rooted in both the Bible and our Jewish roots.
First off, I’ll explain what Catholic Church says a relic is NOT. A relic is not ancestor worship, worship of the dead or ‘Magic’. God cannot be controlled by taking some object saying some words and doing an action, no matter where the object came from (even if it was a relic of Christ). Doing any of the above is considered ‘Superstition’ which is against the 1st Commandment; it is ‘grave matter’: matter that can instantly cut off your relationship with God (I.E. a ‘sin that leads to death’ of 1 Jn 5:16-17).
The Catholic Church does NOT require anyone to believe in any relics.
So, what is a relic. A relic is either a piece of the body or a piece of the clothing of a Saint that is honored, in order that we may focus on God (Father, Son and Spirit) more fully. (An aside: Saints (capitol ‘S’) are those souls that are alive in Heaven with God. Titled, or canonized, Saints (i.e. St. Francis, St. John of the Cross etc) are those Saints whose presence in Heaven is revealed to us by God - there are many Saints in Heaven that are not recognized (i.e. not ‘canonized’) but it is believed that there are many others besides the canonized Saints in Heaven too - All in Heaven are capitol ‘S’ Saints as well - there are also the saints (lower ‘s’) which refer to we the believers here on Earth).
The Biblical examples of relics and venerating relics begin in the Old Testament. In the book of Second Kings (2 Kgs 2:13-14), Elisha takes the cloak of Elijah and uses it to part the Jordan River: “He picked up the cloak that had fallen from Elijah and went back and stood on the bank of the Jordan. Then he took the cloak that had fallen from him and struck the water with it. “Where now is the LORD, the God of Elijah?” he asked. When he struck the water, it divided to the right and to the left, and he crossed over.”
Another example also from the Book of Second Kings (2 Kgs 13:20-21) where the bones of Elisha were used, by God, to revive a man: “So Elisha died, and they buried him. Now bands of Moabites used to invade the land in the spring of the year. And as a man was being buried, lo, a marauding band was seen and the man was cast into the grave of Elisha; and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood on his feet”.
Honoring the dead bodies of God’s servants is also seen in Exodus 13:19 where the Israelites take Joseph’s body out of Egypt: “And Moses took Joseph’s bones with him: because he had adjured the children of Israel, saying: God shall visit you, carry out my bones from hence with you.” and Joshua 24:32 “And the bones of Joseph which the children of Israel had taken out of Egypt, they buried in Sichem, in that part of the field which Jacob had bought of the sons of Hemor the father of Sichem, for a hundred young ewes, and it was in the possession of the sons of Joseph.”
In the New Testament, there are numerous examples of relics. There are the cases where merely St. Peter’s shadow falling across the sick cured them (Acts 5:14-16).
Another good example is in Acts (Acts 19:11-12) where pieces of cloth that had touched St. Paul were later used to heal the sick and cast out demons: “And God did extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them”.
My personal favorite is when merely the cloak of Christ heals a woman in Matthew 9:20-22. This is my favorite because it fulfills another Old Testament Prophesy about the Messiah: Malachi 4:2 “… the Sun of righteousness will rise with healing in his wings…” From a Jewish Rabbi I learned that the nickname, if you will, of the traditional Jewish prayer shawl is ‘wings’. When the woman with the bleeding disorder touched the ‘hem of his cloak’ it is referring to Christ’s prayer shawl… His ‘wings’! But I digress…
But the best example is Christ and what is done with His Body: instead of being discarded into an open pit or left on the Cross for wild animals to feed on (which was the norm of the day), Joseph of Arimathea bravely went to Pilot to ask for Christ’s Body (Mark 15:43, John 19:38). Joseph donated his own tomb for the burial of Jesus (Matt. 27:60). Nicodemus used over 100 lbs of spices to adorn Christ’s Body (Jn 19:39) a HUGE honor (and expensive) in those days. After burial, the women returned to visit the tomb, continue to honor and adorn His Body with more spices (Mt 28:1, Mk 16:1, Lk 24:1). This all was above and beyond what a typical burial would be. This was honor shown to the Holiest ‘relic’ of them all: Christ’s earthly Body.
Catholics seek to imitate this practice seen in the Bible and as shown by Christ’s ministry, life, death and resurrection. Unfortunately, most Catholics could not articulate this - a problem yes, but one the Catholic Church is hoping to fix starting with the Year of Faith just begun on Oct 11th.
This practice of venerating the relics of holy men and women continued after Acts with the Early Church. (‘Holy’ in this case means ‘set apart for God’s purpose’; not ‘impeccable’. This is the meaning of ‘holy’ when Moses was standing on “holy ground”. I can go into more detail on the different meanings of ‘Holy’ if you ask).
TBC…
I wrote the following for a protestant radio show host who was curious why Catholics would send a vial of blood to a Mexican shrine. Some paragraphs don’t have as much to do with relics but it will give you what my research shows… enjoy!
As for relics. The Catholic position is that honoring relics (not ‘worshiping’ but giving honor to - aka ‘venerating’) and asking God to use them in His ministry, is rooted in both the Bible and our Jewish roots.
First off, I’ll explain what Catholic Church says a relic is NOT. A relic is not ancestor worship, worship of the dead or ‘Magic’. God cannot be controlled by taking some object saying some words and doing an action, no matter where the object came from (even if it was a relic of Christ). Doing any of the above is considered ‘Superstition’ which is against the 1st Commandment; it is ‘grave matter’: matter that can instantly cut off your relationship with God (I.E. a ‘sin that leads to death’ of 1 Jn 5:16-17).
The Catholic Church does NOT require anyone to believe in any relics.
So, what is a relic. A relic is either a piece of the body or a piece of the clothing of a Saint that is honored, in order that we may focus on God (Father, Son and Spirit) more fully. (An aside: Saints (capitol ‘S’) are those souls that are alive in Heaven with God. Titled, or canonized, Saints (i.e. St. Francis, St. John of the Cross etc) are those Saints whose presence in Heaven is revealed to us by God - there are many Saints in Heaven that are not recognized (i.e. not ‘canonized’) but it is believed that there are many others besides the canonized Saints in Heaven too - All in Heaven are capitol ‘S’ Saints as well - there are also the saints (lower ‘s’) which refer to we the believers here on Earth).
The Biblical examples of relics and venerating relics begin in the Old Testament. In the book of Second Kings (2 Kgs 2:13-14), Elisha takes the cloak of Elijah and uses it to part the Jordan River: “He picked up the cloak that had fallen from Elijah and went back and stood on the bank of the Jordan. Then he took the cloak that had fallen from him and struck the water with it. “Where now is the LORD, the God of Elijah?” he asked. When he struck the water, it divided to the right and to the left, and he crossed over.”
Another example also from the Book of Second Kings (2 Kgs 13:20-21) where the bones of Elisha were used, by God, to revive a man: “So Elisha died, and they buried him. Now bands of Moabites used to invade the land in the spring of the year. And as a man was being buried, lo, a marauding band was seen and the man was cast into the grave of Elisha; and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood on his feet”.
Honoring the dead bodies of God’s servants is also seen in Exodus 13:19 where the Israelites take Joseph’s body out of Egypt: “And Moses took Joseph’s bones with him: because he had adjured the children of Israel, saying: God shall visit you, carry out my bones from hence with you.” and Joshua 24:32 “And the bones of Joseph which the children of Israel had taken out of Egypt, they buried in Sichem, in that part of the field which Jacob had bought of the sons of Hemor the father of Sichem, for a hundred young ewes, and it was in the possession of the sons of Joseph.”
In the New Testament, there are numerous examples of relics. There are the cases where merely St. Peter’s shadow falling across the sick cured them (Acts 5:14-16).
Another good example is in Acts (Acts 19:11-12) where pieces of cloth that had touched St. Paul were later used to heal the sick and cast out demons: “And God did extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them”.
My personal favorite is when merely the cloak of Christ heals a woman in Matthew 9:20-22. This is my favorite because it fulfills another Old Testament Prophesy about the Messiah: Malachi 4:2 “… the Sun of righteousness will rise with healing in his wings…” From a Jewish Rabbi I learned that the nickname, if you will, of the traditional Jewish prayer shawl is ‘wings’. When the woman with the bleeding disorder touched the ‘hem of his cloak’ it is referring to Christ’s prayer shawl… His ‘wings’! But I digress…
But the best example is Christ and what is done with His Body: instead of being discarded into an open pit or left on the Cross for wild animals to feed on (which was the norm of the day), Joseph of Arimathea bravely went to Pilot to ask for Christ’s Body (Mark 15:43, John 19:38). Joseph donated his own tomb for the burial of Jesus (Matt. 27:60). Nicodemus used over 100 lbs of spices to adorn Christ’s Body (Jn 19:39) a HUGE honor (and expensive) in those days. After burial, the women returned to visit the tomb, continue to honor and adorn His Body with more spices (Mt 28:1, Mk 16:1, Lk 24:1). This all was above and beyond what a typical burial would be. This was honor shown to the Holiest ‘relic’ of them all: Christ’s earthly Body.
Catholics seek to imitate this practice seen in the Bible and as shown by Christ’s ministry, life, death and resurrection. Unfortunately, most Catholics could not articulate this - a problem yes, but one the Catholic Church is hoping to fix starting with the Year of Faith just begun on Oct 11th.
This practice of venerating the relics of holy men and women continued after Acts with the Early Church. (‘Holy’ in this case means ‘set apart for God’s purpose’; not ‘impeccable’. This is the meaning of ‘holy’ when Moses was standing on “holy ground”. I can go into more detail on the different meanings of ‘Holy’ if you ask).
TBC…
P
PoorKnight
Guest
Part 2…
The body of St. Peter was obtained - again contrary to Roman custom - reverently laid to rest in an expensive (at the time) tomb and was venerated almost immediately afterward, this per the Catholic Encyclopedia. Same with the body of St. Paul.
The first explicit reference to relics, after the writings of Sacred Scripture, is found in the early writings of the Church. In the account of the martyrdom of St. Polycarp of Smyrna, (martyred in 156 A.D.) written by the Smyrneans, we read: “We took up his bones, which are more valuable than precious stones and finer than refined gold, and laid them in a suitable place, where the Lord will permit us to gather ourselves together, as we are able, in gladness and joy and to celebrate the birthday of his martyrdom.”
This practice continued to be written about by the earliest Christian writers just after the writers of Scripture. I cannot find a single objection to the practice of venerating relics until the Reformers misunderstood it and objected to something it was not: pagan death worshiping. Up until then, it was an unbroken, God-Centered / Christ-centered practice and teaching for at least 3000 years.
This practice of keeping and venerating relics is also wrapped up in the veneration and intercession of Saints. I can go into the Biblical, Christ-centered and Historical foundation for this practice too, if you ask, but it’s longer than I can spend right now.
I do know it is ABSOLUTELY FORBIDDEN TO SELL RELICS. This is also considered a ‘grave matter’.
The Catholic position on venerating relics is probably best summed up by St. Jerome in the 300’s A.D. “We do not worship [relics], we do not adore [relics], for fear that we should bow down to the creature rather than to the Creator, but we venerate the relics of the martyrs in order the better to adore him whose martyrs they are” (Ad Riparium, i, P.L., XXII, 907).
St. Jerome also stated, “We do not worship the relics of the Saints, but we honor them in the worship of Him whose Saints they are. We honor the servants in order that the respect paid to them may be reflected back to the Lord” in his letter to Vigilantius. In the same letter St. Jerome also stated, “If the Apostles and martyrs, while still living on earth, could pray for other men, how much more may they do it after their victories? Have they less power now that they are with Jesus Christ?”
God has always used physical objects, flawed people and certain circumstances as mediums as vehicles for His ministry, His healing and His Grace.
I hope this helps you understand the Biblical and Historical roots for the Catholic practice of venerating relics.
May God Bless you
The body of St. Peter was obtained - again contrary to Roman custom - reverently laid to rest in an expensive (at the time) tomb and was venerated almost immediately afterward, this per the Catholic Encyclopedia. Same with the body of St. Paul.
The first explicit reference to relics, after the writings of Sacred Scripture, is found in the early writings of the Church. In the account of the martyrdom of St. Polycarp of Smyrna, (martyred in 156 A.D.) written by the Smyrneans, we read: “We took up his bones, which are more valuable than precious stones and finer than refined gold, and laid them in a suitable place, where the Lord will permit us to gather ourselves together, as we are able, in gladness and joy and to celebrate the birthday of his martyrdom.”
This practice continued to be written about by the earliest Christian writers just after the writers of Scripture. I cannot find a single objection to the practice of venerating relics until the Reformers misunderstood it and objected to something it was not: pagan death worshiping. Up until then, it was an unbroken, God-Centered / Christ-centered practice and teaching for at least 3000 years.
This practice of keeping and venerating relics is also wrapped up in the veneration and intercession of Saints. I can go into the Biblical, Christ-centered and Historical foundation for this practice too, if you ask, but it’s longer than I can spend right now.
I do know it is ABSOLUTELY FORBIDDEN TO SELL RELICS. This is also considered a ‘grave matter’.
The Catholic position on venerating relics is probably best summed up by St. Jerome in the 300’s A.D. “We do not worship [relics], we do not adore [relics], for fear that we should bow down to the creature rather than to the Creator, but we venerate the relics of the martyrs in order the better to adore him whose martyrs they are” (Ad Riparium, i, P.L., XXII, 907).
St. Jerome also stated, “We do not worship the relics of the Saints, but we honor them in the worship of Him whose Saints they are. We honor the servants in order that the respect paid to them may be reflected back to the Lord” in his letter to Vigilantius. In the same letter St. Jerome also stated, “If the Apostles and martyrs, while still living on earth, could pray for other men, how much more may they do it after their victories? Have they less power now that they are with Jesus Christ?”
God has always used physical objects, flawed people and certain circumstances as mediums as vehicles for His ministry, His healing and His Grace.
I hope this helps you understand the Biblical and Historical roots for the Catholic practice of venerating relics.
May God Bless you
C
ClemtheCatholic
Guest
Hi, thanks very much for this. Will print it off and read it Was just skimming through when I saw it said it is forbidden to sell relics. Surely not? I’ve heard of shops with relics for sale… is it just a certain class of relics?
Was just skimming through when I saw it said it is forbidden to sell relics. Surely not? I’ve heard of shops with relics for sale… is it just a certain class of relics?
P
PoorKnight
Guest
This is where I got that part from:
catholic.com/quickquestions/are-there-any-rules-governing-relics
Enjoy!
God Bless:knight1:
catholic.com/quickquestions/are-there-any-rules-governing-relics
Enjoy!
God Bless
:knight1:- Status