Bid to protect right of religious schools not to teach about same-sex marriage rejected

[Santi2]

But it’s not written in the bill that religious organisations will have to start teaching that ssm is equivalent to traditional marriage right?

The Marriage Same Sex Couples Bill states under clause referring to “Effect of extension of marriage”:

(1) In the law of England and Wales, marriage has the same effect in relation to same sex couples as it has in relation to opposite sex couples.

(2) The law of England and Wales (including all England and Wales legislation whenever
passed or made) has effect in accordance with subsection (1)

Subsection (2) means all other laws, decrees, orders, issuances, rules and regulations which are inconsistent with the provisions of the Marriage Same Sex Couples Bill will be repealed, amended or modified accordingly.

BTW, they talk about the Church of England and Wales in the bill. Those are Anglican churches right?

Yes. The reference to CofE is because it is the Established Church and we do not have a separation of Church and State like you do in America. The Church in Wales was disestablished a long time ago albeit there still exists some CoE’s episcopal governance in some of their dioceses.

What about the Catholic Church?

We are referred to as belonging to “other” religious institutions/organisations.

 

[JRKH]

From the post above…the Law states… In the law of England and Wales, marriage has the same effect in relation to same sex couples as it has in relation to opposite sex couples.Then this is precisely the way in which a school - even a Christian School should teach it.
"In the law of England and Wales, marriage has the same effect in relation to ss couples as to opposite sex couples.

This can then be followed by

"In the Law of God, same sex marriage does NOT have the same effect as opposite sex marriage.

From there discussion can delve int the reasons and also into the manner in which Christians can be both good Christians and good citizens.

Peace
James

 

[buffalo]

So called same sex marriage and religious freedom cannot coexist. One will have to give. Guess which one?

 

[Santi2]

From the post above…the Law states… In the law of England and Wales, marriage has the same effect in relation to same sex couples as it has in relation to opposite sex couples.Then this is precisely the way in which a school - even a Christian School should teach it.
"In the law of England and Wales, marriage has the same effect in relation to ss couples as to opposite sex couples.

This can then be followed by

"In the Law of God, same sex marriage does NOT have the same effect as opposite sex marriage.

From there discussion can delve int the reasons and also into the manner in which Christians can be both good Christians and good citizens.

Peace
James

James, I wish it were as simple as you propose i.e. Catholic teachers can defer to the doctrine of the Catholic Church and say same sex unions is wrong where the general position of same sex advocates view is as below:

Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab): In relation to teachers, surely we must also think about the children of same-sex couples who could be made to feel in the classroom that the love of their parents is in some way less worthwhile and valued.

Also, in the case of teachers in non-faith schools, where the Book of Common Prayer can be amended by Parliament to accommodate same sex unions, how is one to teach deference to God’s law?

This is not also just a matter of protection for teachers who uphold traditional marriage. In non-faith schools, local authorities already undermine the exercise of parents authority over what their children are taught or exposed to. We already have cases where Muslim and Christian parents were threatened with prosecution over withdrawal of children from school.

telegraph.co.uk/education/4948825/Parents-face-prosecution-over-school-gay-week-protest.html

christian.org.uk/news/parents-face-prosecution-over-gay-lessons-protest/

 

[Santi2]

So called same sex marriage and religious freedom cannot coexist. One will have to give. Guess which one?

The Bill has now been referred to the House of Lords where we have Ecclesial/Spiritual Law Lords. Where the Bill “assures” protection for religious institutions and clergy, it is hoped that is extended to others.

 

[jacfalle20]

With the upcoming Supreme Court decision on same-sex marriage, I guarantee this will be an issue REAL SOON… the government has already started encroaching on our beliefs with the HHS mandate… Next up is our Catholic schools… in about 10 years or so, when they’ve brainwashed our children against our base beliefs, the attack will shift to the Church itself… Dark days are indeed ahead for the Catholic Church in the US… May God guide & protect His church in the dark days to come…

 

[JRKH]

So called same sex marriage and religious freedom cannot coexist. One will have to give. Guess which one?

I think that if the Church could co-exist (and even grow) with the Romans during the time that it was illegal to be Christian…then I think that we can find a way to co-exist under future troubles…

I don’t mean to belittle the issue at all…I actually wish to offer some hope. It will require sacrifice…but it can be done.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

James, I wish it were as simple as you propose i.e. Catholic teachers can defer to the doctrine of the Catholic Church and say same sex unions is wrong where the general position of same sex advocates view is as below:

Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab): In relation to teachers, surely we must also think about the children of same-sex couples who could be made to feel in the classroom that the love of their parents is in some way less worthwhile and valued.

Also, in the case of teachers in non-faith schools, where the Book of Common Prayer can be amended by Parliament to accommodate same sex unions, how is one to teach deference to God’s law?

This is not also just a matter of protection for teachers who uphold traditional marriage. In non-faith schools, local authorities already undermine the exercise of parents authority over what their children are taught or exposed to. We already have cases where Muslim and Christian parents were threatened with prosecution over withdrawal of children from school.

telegraph.co.uk/education/4948825/Parents-face-prosecution-over-school-gay-week-protest.html

christian.org.uk/news/parents-face-prosecution-over-gay-lessons-protest/

You are absolutely right…Things will be more complex than I presented it.

I guess that what I was trying to offer is a base or core position from which to work. The other issues would have to be addressed working from that basic core.

Peace
James

 

[kelvinf]

The Marriage Same Sex Couples Bill states under clause referring to “Effect of extension of marriage”:

Subsection (2) means all other laws, decrees, orders, issuances, rules and regulations which are inconsistent with the provisions of the Marriage Same Sex Couples Bill will be repealed, amended or modified accordingly.

Yes. The reference to CofE is because it is the Established Church and we do not have a separation of Church and State like you do in America. The Church in Wales was disestablished a long time ago albeit there still exists some CoE’s episcopal governance in some of their dioceses.

We are referred to as belonging to “other” religious institutions/organisations.

Honestly, I still do not understand something. Ok, let me take the example of divorce. I believe divorce is legal in the UK. Are religious institutions forced not to teach that divorce is a grave matter? I mean, there are certainly children from divorced families in classrooms.

So I am still not quite clear how this bill (as bad as it is) would prevent Catholic schools from teaching what we Catholics understand as marriage.

 

[JRKH]

Honestly, I still do not understand something. Ok, let me take the example of divorce. I believe divorce is legal in the UK. Are religious institutions forced not to teach that divorce is a grave matter? I mean, there are certainly children from divorced families in classrooms.

So I am still not quite clear how this bill (as bad as it is) would prevent Catholic schools from teaching what we Catholics understand as marriage.

Good question…



Peace
James

 

[Santi2]

Honestly, I still do not understand something. Ok, let me take the example of divorce. I believe divorce is legal in the UK. Are religious institutions forced not to teach that divorce is a grave matter? I mean, there are certainly children from divorced families in classrooms.

Kevin, current legislation does not restrict or penalise Catholic teachers from teaching the seven Sacraments and sin even when the implications directly touches on the personal circumstances of some of the children who attend Catholic schools.

So I am still not quite clear how this bill (as bad as it is) would prevent Catholic schools from teaching what we Catholics understand as marriage.

It might help to understand better if you springboard from what the Bill and same-sex advocates direct towards i.e. a legal duty to teach inclusion of same sex “marriage”. Thereafter, read MPs arguments in the link I have provided earlier. Nick Herbert’s contribution is quite telling:

“My understanding is that teachers will be under a legal duty to teach the fact of the law of the land and that same-sex marriages are available to people and lawful, but they will also be able to exercise their conscience and say that the belief of the institution for which they work is that same-sex marriage is wrong. Most of us agree that there should be limits on that freedom, and that were teachers to overstep the mark and start discussing the issue in a way that was hateful or unpleasant and that was deeply upsetting to children, something should prevent that. The question is whether that is the proper realm of the criminal law or whether it amounts to good teaching, good practice in schools and the sensible intervention of head teachers. Further clarity from the Government about what is and is not to be permitted in schools would be welcome.”

There you go. Catholic teachers can teach all they want about sheep and goats but, will have to “tone down” about the immorality of the nature of same sex marriage.

Quite right, James. Good question which highlights silly walks in Parliament.