Big Bang Theory

[tjm190]

It only takes one line of evidence to falsify a theory, regardless of how much evidence it has in support.

More or less, yes. However, the conclusions from the other evidence remain valid so you end up with a slightly different theory- aka, the same theory except it accounts for new evidence.

 

[Luke65]

Space-time can in fact move faster than the speed of light. This of course would present new problems- of course, this would neccesitate that all objects “orbit” the Earth in the same direction, which is of course not true. Unless space-time is orbiting in opposite directions simoltaneously.

I suggest you read that thread. The body of the universe can rotate around the Earth, while the bodies in the universe are free to rotate in their various systems.

 

[latin_rite]

I know there are certain things of science that our awesome Catholic church says that if it happened then God of course had a part to play in it. Please forgive my ignorance on the whole topic of the Big Bang but does our faith believe in the Big Bang or not? I read the tracks about Adam and Eve and the beginning and it touched on it but was not definitive. Just a simple yes or no with a little explanation would be just fine or a link that I could read more on would be great.
Thanks

As a previous poster pointed out Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître was the first to propose the notion or the idea of the bing bang. He called it the ‘hypothesis of the primeval atom’. or the cosmic egg. What i find ironic. Is that atheist seem to always put science on their side. And claim christians to be against science. Yet when lemaitre first released his hypothesis it wasn’t al lthat well recieved by those who thought they were “in the know”. Eddington found it a unpleasent notion, fred hoyle found it a joke. IN fact the term big bang came about as a sarcastic remark from hoyle. Einstien found it suspect and unjustafiable. But to einstiens credit he encourage him to look futher into the possibilities of his theroy. I think the theory of the big bang and genisis are a little to similar for the comfort of most atheist.

 

[tjm190]

I suggest you read that thread. The body of the universe can rotate around the Earth, while the bodies in the universe are free to rotate in their various systems.

I belive my retort was that this model requires that the graviational forces on Earth must line up exacly perfectly with respect to every axis- as in, when an object, say an asteroid, gets closer than an object somewhere else must get farther away, lest the universe’s center of gravity move. Furthermore, even forces on Earth, say the movement of my fingers as I type, would also have to be counter acted elsewhere in the universe. Anything shift in mass, aside those at the level of uncertainty, would cause the Earth to begin rotating at least slightly.

 

[Bbigam]

Depending on if you are a Young Earth Creationist or an Old Earth Creationist, you have your own big bang.

Young Earth Creationists are forced to make God a magic man who did everything in only a few thousand years, this is denying God any majesty and simply makes him a magic-man with no personal relationship with mankind other than as a Creator. In a way, this is a big bang.

The Old Earth Creationist accepts modern science along with the Bible (Bible first then Science) and points to the big bang as proof of a transcendent being or agent, which we all call God. It shows that we are very special and so is this universe and in fact there is a true chance that other universes exist. Evolution never happened, instead God simply kept making creatures during the six days of Creation.

I’m sorry, what? I don’t know what I think about the details of Creation, but why are Young Earth Creationists “forced to make God a magic man?” Is He not omnipotent? How does this deny His majesty? Why does this mean He has no personal relationship with mankind? How does Old Earth Creationism explain this any better?

I don’t know how old the Earth is. I believe that God did it (out of nothing originally) but I don’t know how long it took him. Of course, in line with Catholic teaching, I know that God specifically created mankind - our first parents, and each one of us - in His own image, and I don’t think it makes much of a difference how long ago that was, or how long it took him to get to that point.

 

[Filius_Prodigus]

Article from This Rock celebrating arguably some of the most famous among our presbyter scientists, in addition to Fr Lemaître:

catholic.com/thisrock/2008/0809fea2.asp

 

[liquidpele]

What does it matter to you? You only accept science, and science can’t prove whether the universe is geocentric or not. So you’re left to your own fallible opinion.

What does it matter if you think the entire universe revolves around the Earth??

Well, for one, it is a signal of your own insanity, or at minimum a signal on how absolutely ignorant people can be regarding such things. I hope you are just arguing for the sake of argument like a fool and not actually a fool.

 

[Luke65]

What does it matter if you think the entire universe revolves around the Earth??

Well, for one, it is a signal of your own insanity, or at minimum a signal on how absolutely ignorant people can be regarding such things. I hope you are just arguing for the sake of argument like a fool and not actually a fool.

Do you want to talk about insanity? Do you believe an “explosion of unimaginable chaos” created this glorious, orderly universe? Oh yeah, that’s rational! Explosions create order all the time! Especially nuclear explosions! And the fact that you still believe in it, despite the patent absurdity of this, and despite the fact that the Big Bang has been falsified by one line of evidence after another for decades now, simply demonstrates the depths of foolish credulity you have sunk to simply so you can have an “intellectually fulfilling” way of rejecting your glorious, beautiful Creator - God.

And of course, that is just the tip of the iceberg. You believe that this creation has no Creator; that the laws that govern this creation have no Lawgiver; that the order that we observe has no Orderer. You reject the actual laws of nature - true science - so you can believe in the most moronic theories of man ever invented - psuedo-science. You actually believe that a monkey turned into a man! That a bacteria can turn into a man if you just give it enough time! Come on LUCA, you can do it, you can do it!

With everything we have learned from modern science - from the mind boggling fine-tuning of all the laws of nature, the virtually infinite odds against any of this coming about by chance, and no explanation at all for how life came to be, or what life even is; from the infinitesimally small micro-world to the unimaginable vastness of the macro-world, all of it working together in the beautiful and glorious symphony of creation; and all of it comprehensible and discoverable to us human beings and only to us, just as God told us, being the only creature He made in His image - all of this demonstrates that unbelievers in the 21st century are the most irrational people to have ever walked the face of the Earth, and they are without excuse.

“It’s unbelievable what unbelievers have to believe to be unbelievers.” ~ Dr. Duane T. Gish

:tiphat:

 

[EphelDuath]

It saddens me when I see Catholics fanatically deny that scientific achievements are reconcilable with Catholicism; if they want want to take a lesson from fundamentalists Christians who hate the Church as opposed to the Church Fathers who thought science was one of many proofs of the love and existence of God, then so be it.

The Big Bang is an acceptable belief to Catholics according to the Church. As previously stated, it was formulated by a Belgian Catholic priest, and the Church has at no point ever given any statements to suggest that the Book of Genesis is not describing what we would call the Big Bang.

 

[a_priori]

This entire subject has led to one of the most needless debates in the history of Christendom. God created everything. Period. There is much science to suggest an old Earth and a Big Bang-type event. So what. If sciences leads to the Big Bang then God goes “POOF”? Nope.

God “painted the wall blue”. He used a roller. No, he used a brush. He used a roller and the people who think He used a brush are idiots. But the wall is blue. Isn’t that enough? No, because if you think He used a brush you can’t be a Believer. But God acted and the wall is blue. The brush people are deluded. Scripture says it has to be a brush and if you insist on being a roller person you are spiritually and morally challenged. But Scripture allows for a roller. No it doesn’t. Recent tests didn’t find what the math says should be there so the roller bites the dust…

It’s, quite simply, a ridiculous debate. Go out and feed somebody, clothe them, free them from slavery both literal and spiritual and bring them the Good News that God loves them. Stipulate that God created it all and then marvel at what the human God-given brain can discern about His creation no matter where it leads. It’s OK. God will do just fine. He isn’t dependent on a bunch of created beings stuck in the fishbowl of space/time and observing “through a glass darkly” to justify to each other that He is still on the Throne. He’s safe.

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

Where did the matter come from (that was there at time zero of the big bang)? It seems to me that our Creator could have arranged all that such that it is not in conflict with conventional science.

OK - scientists are close to claiming they can create life in a test tube. But can they do that starting with nothing? They need a test tube, they need enzymes, they need proteins, they need other ingredients, they need a heat source. It is impossible to create something from nothing - except for God.

There had to be matter and energy to support the big bang. Where does science say that came from? No explanation is possible. To the faithful - no explanation is necessary.

John Marie Philomena

 

[EphelDuath]

This entire subject has led to one of the most needless debates in the history of Christendom. God created everything. Period. There is much science to suggest an old Earth and a Big Bang-type event. So what. If sciences leads to the Big Bang then God goes “POOF”? Nope.

God “painted the wall blue”. He used a roller. No, he used a brush. He used a roller and the people who think He used a brush are idiots. But the wall is blue. Isn’t that enough? No, because if you think He used a brush you can’t be a Believer. But God acted and the wall is blue. The brush people are deluded. Scripture says it has to be a brush and if you insist on being a roller person you are spiritually and morally challenged. But Scripture allows for a roller. No it doesn’t. Recent tests didn’t find what the math says should be there so the roller bites the dust…

It’s, quite simply, a ridiculous debate. Go out and feed somebody, clothe them, free them from slavery both literal and spiritual and bring them the Good News that God loves them. Stipulate that God created it all and then marvel at what the human God-given brain can discern about His creation no matter where it leads. It’s OK. God will do just fine. He isn’t dependent on a bunch of created beings stuck in the fishbowl of space/time and observing “through a glass darkly” to justify to each other that He is still on the Throne. He’s safe.

I endorse this post.

 

[Luke65]

It saddens me when I see Catholics fanatically deny that scientific achievements are reconcilable with Catholicism; if they want want to take a lesson from fundamentalists Christians who hate the Church as opposed to the Church Fathers who thought science was one of many proofs of the love and existence of God, then so be it.

The Big Bang is an acceptable belief to Catholics according to the Church. As previously stated, it was formulated by a Belgian Catholic priest, and the Church has at no point ever given any statements to suggest that the Book of Genesis is not describing what we would call the Big Bang.

What saddens me is seeing some of God’s own people uniting forces with God’s enemies - “Gog and Magog” - to mock and attack God’s people, who have the faith of a little child in His Word, and have the Faith of our Fathers on these issues. And then they have the audacity to appeal to these same Fathers, who rejected and mocked to scorn any pagan theories that contradicted the Holy Scriptures. The only ones you can appeal to were their pagan opponents, whose theories were not unlike their modern neo-pagan successors. You’re on the wrong side in this battle. But I will gladly stand side by side with Protestants, who may or may not have been given God’s grace to believe in His Catholic Church, but who believe with all their hearts in His Word.

 

[EphelDuath]

What saddens me is seeing some of God’s own people uniting forces with God’s enemies - “Gog and Magog” - to mock and attack God’s people, who have the faith of a little child in His Word, and have the Faith of our Fathers on these issues. And then they have the audacity to appeal to these same Fathers, who rejected and mocked to scorn any pagan theories that contradicted the Holy Scriptures. The only ones you can appeal to were their pagan opponents, whose theories were not unlike their modern neo-pagan successors. You’re on the wrong side in this battle. But I will gladly stand side by side with Protestants, who may or may not have been given God’s grace to believe in His Catholic Church, but who believe with all their hearts in His Word.

I am not siding with anybody but the Church, who says that one may believe in any scientific theory that is in conformity with her teachings. I do not speak down to or judge people based on beliefs that are not inherently sinful, nor do I accuse people who hold them of ulterior motives.

You seem to be implying here that the theory of the Big Bang is a vestige of paganism. I take it, then, that the Church has fallen into heresy for allowing its faithful to believe in it?

 

[Filius_Prodigus]

Originally Posted by a priori

Likewise.
And it is outrageous someone would want to keep bringing up such non-issue.

One does not read in the Gospel that the Lord said: I will send you the Paraclete who will teach you about the course of the sun and moon. For He willed to make them Christians, not mathematicians.
-St Augustine, bishop of Hippo
4th century AD

 

[Luke65]

This entire subject has led to one of the most needless debates in the history of Christendom.

Sorry, brother, but these issues, especially Evolution, have led to the great apostasy from Christianity in our time, not to mention an avalanche of heresies. And so my Master tells me it’s important. And He has armed me to fight this battle, and so I do. But I do agree with you that far too much time is wasted here debating this. But you’ll have to convince our fellow Catholics along with the unbelievers to stop coming here and trying to peddle their godless myths to God’s people, otherwise, we do battle.

 

[Filius_Prodigus]

What saddens me is seeing some of God’s own people uniting forces with God’s enemies - “Gog and Magog” - to mock and attack God’s people, who have the faith of a little child in His Word, and have the Faith of our Fathers on these issues. And then they have the audacity to appeal to these same Fathers, who rejected and mocked to scorn any pagan theories that contradicted the Holy Scriptures. The only ones you can appeal to were their pagan opponents, whose theories were not unlike their modern neo-pagan successors. You’re on the wrong side in this battle. But I will gladly stand side by side with Protestants, who may or may not have been given God’s grace to believe in His Catholic Church, but who believe with all their hearts in His Word.

You sound like a pentecostal preacher, brewing up conspiracy theories, and ignoring the teaching of the universal Church.

Tolle, lege!

 

[Luke65]

I am not siding with anybody but the Church, who says that one may believe in any scientific theory that is in conformity with her teachings. I do not speak down to or judge people based on beliefs that are not inherently sinful, nor do I accuse people who hold them of ulterior motives.

You just called me “fanatical”. I don’t care if you call me fanatical, just don’t pretend you didn’t.

You seem to be implying here that the theory of the Big Bang is a vestige of paganism.

Of course, it’s the old pagan theories, “Atoms collided, and here we are.”

I take it, then, that the Church has fallen into heresy for allowing its faithful to believe in it?

The Church is indefectible. Her people are fallible. But I suggest you study the prophecies about our time, it will be an enlightening and faith-building experience. I recommend Trial, Tribulation and Triumph by Desmond Birch - all from Church approved sources.

 

[Luke65]

You sound like a pentecostal preacher, brewing up conspiracy theories, and ignoring the teaching of the universal Church.

Tolle, lege!

I embrace all of the teachings of our Lord’s Catholic Church. Do you? Would you like to see Church dogmas? I don’t think you do.

 

[EphelDuath]

You just called me “fanatical”. I don’t care if you call me fanatical, just don’t pretend you didn’t.

You are fanatical in regard to this particular doctrine, yes.

Of course, it’s the old pagan theories, “Atoms collided, and here we are.”

The pagans didn’t believe that Jesus Christ was the author of the atoms and the first mover of their collisions.

The Church is indefectible. Her people are fallible. But I suggest you study the prophecies about our time, it will be an enlightening and faith-building experience. I recommend Trial, Tribulation and Triumph by Desmond Birch - all from Church approved sources.

Interesting how you take the Church’s approval when it fits your beliefs, but toss it out when you disagree.