Big Bang Theory

[Luke65]

You are fanatical in regard to this particular doctrine, yes.

Thank you.

The pagans didn’t believe that Jesus Christ was the author of the atoms and the first mover of their collisions.

Nor do their successors. The question is why are Christians trying to synthesize their “godless myths” (1 Tim. 4) with the Truth. Our Lady of La Sallette and Rev. 20:7 give us the answer.

Interesting how you take the Church’s approval when it fits your beliefs, but toss it out when you disagree.

Maybe you don’t know how to distinguish. When the Church canonizes a Saint, it’s binding on the whole Church. When the Church declares an apparition to be “supernatural”, She does so with a charism from God. But when a Churchman gives a speech, it is not binding on the Church, or infallible.

 

[EphelDuath]

Nor do their successors. The question is why are Christians trying to synthesize their “godless myths” (1 Tim. 4) with the Truth.

It’s a godless myth to believe that God created the universe from nothing? My mistake. The Church has been propagating this belief since the 1st century, but I guess you know better.

Maybe you don’t know how to distinguish. When the Church canonizes a Saint, it’s binding on the whole Church. When the Church declares an apparition to be “supernatural”, She does so with a charism from God. But when a Churchman gives a speech, it is not binding on the Church, or infallible.

So what you’re saying is that the Church isn’t infallible when it speaks of what is sinful and what isn’t? Because that’s what you’re suggesting when you saying that the Church’s allowance of belief in the Big Bang isn’t guided by the Holy Spirit. Perhaps I am mistaken but it seems rather grievous that Christ’s Church on earth is incapable of distinguishing what is sinful and inherently atheistic, and what isn’t, according to you.

 

[Luke65]

It’s a godless myth to believe that God created the universe from nothing? My mistake. The Church has been propagating this belief since the 1st century, but I guess you know better.

Try reading what I actually said.

So what you’re saying is that the Church isn’t infallible when it speaks of what is sinful and what isn’t? Because that’s what you’re suggesting when you saying that the Church’s allowance of belief in the Big Bang isn’t guided by the Holy Spirit. Perhaps I am mistaken but it seems rather grievous that Christ’s Church on earth is incapable of distinguishing what is sinful and inherently atheistic, and what isn’t, according to you.

Some 80% of the clergy believed in the Arian heresy at one time. The Gates of Hell didn’t prevail then, and they won’t prevail now.

 

[Filius_Prodigus]

I embrace all of the teachings of our Lord’s Catholic Church. Do you? Would you like to see Church dogmas? I don’t think you do.

What is that supposed to mean, “Would you like to see Church dogmas?”?

In any case, the Church does not legislate in astronomical matters as matter of faith. Period.

OBJECTOR: But today the Church does recognize that the decision against Galileo was mistake, doesn’t it? Why did the Church take so long to recognize its mistake?

CATHOLIC: Yes, the Church recognizes that the decision was wrong, but that recognition took place long before John Paul II made the formal apology in 1992. Copernicus’s book and thus the heliocentric system was removed from the Index of Prohibited Books in the eighteenth century. The Church, long before the past two decades, accepted Galileo’s approach to the reconciliation of science and Scripture as well founded. For example, Pope Leo XIII issued an encyclical Providentissimus Deus (November 18, 1893) in which he basically endorsed Galileo’s approach to the reconciliation of apparent conflicts between the Catholic faith and science. I say “apparent conflicts” because neither Galileo nor the official Church ever believed that there could be true conflicts between the Christian faith and science. Leo in the nineteenth century, Galileo and Bellarmine in the seventeenth, all affirmed the ultimate agreement between truths of faith and truths of science.

OBJECTOR: But Catholics say that the Church is infallible, that it cannot err. Yet you yourself have said that the Church recognizes its error. Isn’t the Galileo case a clear contradiction to the principle of the infallibility of the Church?

CATHOLIC: The infallibility of the Church is a big subject, too big for now, but I can say this much. The infallibility of the Church attaches to its officially proclaimed dogmas, such as Christ’s two natures or Mary’s Immaculate Conception. These are matters of the highest authority. The Church cannot be wrong in these matters. But in matters of empirical science or anything that is not what is called de fide, the Church can and has made many reversals. The decisions in the Galileo case were disciplinary or procedural, not doctrinal matters at all, even though some individuals in the Church at the time thought they were. If these had been matters of dogma, the Church could not have reversed itself.

OBJECTOR: So, you as a Catholic, what lessons do you think we can learn from the Galileo trial?

CATHOLIC: That the pursuit of knowledge is always a humbling process. And that is good, because humility is one of the greatest virtues.

This Rock
Volume 14, Number 5
May-June 2003
catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0305sbs.asp

Thanks to his intuition as a brilliant physicist and by relying on different arguments, Galileo, who practically invented the experimental method, understood why only the sun could function as the centre of the world, as it was then known, that is to say, as a planetary system. The error of the theologians of the time, when they maintained the centrality of the Earth, was to think that our understanding of the physical world’s structure was, in some way, imposed by the literal sense of Sacred Scripture…

– Pope John Paul II, L’Osservatore Romano N. 44 (1264) - November 4, 1992

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair

… and again:

One does not read in the Gospel that the Lord said: I will send you the Paraclete who will teach you about the course of the sun and moon. For He willed to make them Christians, not mathematicians.
-St Augustine, bishop of Hippo
4th century AD

 

[a_priori]

Sorry, brother, but these issues, especially Evolution, have led to the great apostasy from Christianity in our time, not to mention an avalanche of heresies. And so my Master tells me it’s important. And He has armed me to fight this battle, and so I do. But I do agree with you that far too much time is wasted here debating this. But you’ll have to convince our fellow Catholics along with the unbelievers to stop coming here and trying to peddle their godless myths to God’s people, otherwise, we do battle.

But Luke, isn’t it possible that the cart is before the horse? The fact that the Earth orbits the Sun didn’t cause apostasy. People who reject God in order to live as they choose do this despite Hubble’s Constant, not because of it. God said “come let us reason together.” This implies using what God created our brains to do.

Apostasy and cosmology are not co-conspirators. Relationship does not equal causality.