big difference between Catholics and Protestants

[mabibleteacher]

There is very little that “unites” the family of Christ. There are some who call themselves Christian, who deny the Resurrection, who deny the divinity of Christ, who deny the virginal motherhood of Mary, yet, they would insist on being considered members of the family of Christ. How far down must we go, to find our common denominator?

Actually, no. God came up with the Sacraments, and gave them as a gift to His Church.

.
Actually, both are very important. The Sacraments aren’t magical, and don’t have any effect on unbelievers. But someone who believes, but then doesn’t make use of the Sacraments, is not in any better of a position than the unbeliever.

All true. But is it not also true, that if you are given the gift, but don’t put it to use, you are not in any better of a situation than someone who rejects, or never receives, the gift?

Why did God bother to establish a Church and give it the Sacraments, if He doesn’t care one way or the other whether we join it, or make use of them?

Our only necessary common denominator is an acknowledgement that God is who He says He is. Everything else is academic theology.

I agree that anyone who denies that God’s word (the bible) is true will have difficulty in their Christian walk. If they have a true understanding of what God did, they have to accept the Bible as the true word of GodHowever doubt or lack of understanding are not the same as denial. As Christians, it is our job to build on what unites us and work toward helping others to understand their misconceptions. It is not our job to judge or isolate ourselves from others who have different beliefs.

If there is division among the family of God, it is of OUR own doing, not of Gods. What I said was that instead of focusing on what makes us different, we should celebrate what brings us together. Division among God’s people because of worship preference is exactly what satan wants because it prevents man from succeeding in God’s Kingdom.

Regarding Sacrements:

God didn’t “come up” with the sacrements. Man took the blessings that God gave us and created rituals and traditions to help people remember and honor those gifts. It is not the observance of those rituals that brings us eternal life.
The observance of the rituals of the sacrements makes us feel closer to God but only the appreciation of the gifts that the rituals represent will enhance our relationship with God.

The sacrements themselves do not have any effect on anyone, believer or not. It is a mistake to think that because we observe certain ritual or acts that we are any more valued by God than an unbeliever. They are merely activities done to encourage the rembrance of God’s gifts and blessings. They don’t bring us eternal life and not observing them doesn’t bring us loss of eternal life either
The bible tells us that nothing we can DO, no actions that we take can make us right in God’s eyes.
In Isaiah 64:6 the bible says *“all our righteous acts are like filthy rags”. *
The sacrements are rituals that are followed that were designed by man. Those rituals do not bring us eternal salvation. No where in the bible does God tell us that we have to be baptized as babies, take communion, make confession, be confirmed, get married blah blah blah, in order to have eternal life in heaven. The only requirement laid down in God’s own word (the bible) for us to have eternal life with God is spelled out very clearly:

**Ephesians 2:8-9- ** For it is by grace you have been saved, though faith- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast"

Romans 10:9- If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, then you will be saved"
Also
Acts 16:31- Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

In regard to the use of gifts:

What “situation” and “use” are you referring to? We cannot earn our way into heaven by observing certain rituals or activities. The only way we can have eternal salvation is through the acceptance of God. The things we do after that come out of a desire to please God, not because if we don’t we can’t go to heaven.
It is true that if we truly accept God, our actions should show that but our actions do not always reveal the true nature of our heart.

Consider this:
Mark chapter 12 verses 28-31

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
“The most important one,” Jesus answered, “is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbour as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.”
Here Jesus tells a teacher of the law, the law being all the rules and rituals that the Jews had to follow that the most important thing to remember is to love God and love each other. He doesn’t say that obedience to the law is the most important.

In the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector (B]Luke 18:9-14) Jesus tells us not to exhault ourselves because we observe our faith to the letter of the law but instead to be like the tax collector and be only concerned about humbling oursevles before God.

 

[rinnie]

As a matter of fact, I did!

You said some things that were not accurate. This was not one of them, though.

It is clear from the NT that a community of believers existed in Rome prior to the arrival of Peter.

The fact that the Latin Rite is known as the “Roman Catholic Church” has no relation to the preaching of Peter in Rome. Peter preached first in Jerusalem, and was pastoring the flock of God there.

I know you said that, but there is no evidence that it was Peter who laid the foundation in Rome at the time.

I know that there was a community of believers in Rome before Peter went there. Paul wrote his letter to the Romans before Peter wrote from “Babylon”.

Peter built the Church in Jerusalem and Antioch before going to Rome.

Acts 9:31
31 Meanwhile the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had peace and was built up. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it increased in numbers.

Paul continued to drag his feet about visiting Gods people in rome. Romans 15:19-25 and 39

I have preached Christs good neews to the utmost of my capacity. I have always made it an unbroken rule NEVER TO PREACH WHERE CHRISTS NAME HAS ALREADY BEEN HEARD.The reason for this was that I had NO WISH TO BUILD ON TOHERE MENS FOUNDATIONS. ON THE CONTRARY MY CHIEF CONCERN HAS BEEN TO FULFILL THE TEXT. Those who have never been told about him and those who have never heard bout him will understand. That is the REASON WHI I HAVE BEEN DEPT FROM VISITING YOU SO LONG. though
for MANY YEARS I have been longing to visit. Now however having no work to do here I hope to see you on my way to spain and after enjoying a little compmany to complete the reso fo the journey with your good wishes. So whenI have done this and officially handed over what has been raised I shall set out for Spain and VISIT YOU ON THE WAY. THEN IF God wills I shalll be feeling very happy when I come to enjoy a PERIOD OF REST among you. (the new Testment of the Jerusalem Bible)

Makes is plain as day, Rome had been evangelized prior to the writing of the Book of Romans 57-58 A.D. The foundation Paul did not want to build on was Peters. Conclusion Peter not only came to Rome just before his death in Feb 68. A.D. but also after his release from prison under Herod in 43.A.D… He founded the Church of God in the Imperial City and in the almost 25 years between his tow visits preached the gospel fo Christ throughout Europe Britian and Asia.

 

[Matariel]

The Big difference I see between Catholic’s and Protestants are the sacraments.

That’s one. Protestants see matter and spirit divorced, just like the Gnostics did. Because of this, they lost the ancient Christian sacramental worldview.

Marriage, God gave Priests the power to join 2 people together and become one. It is very hard to get an annulment in the Church. Protestants disagree with this, they say it all about money, that is not true.

Actually, the two people are technically the ministers of the Sacrament of Matrimony. The priest is the representative of God, however.

Communion. Jesus said this is my Body this is my blood, Protestants disagree with this, they say it is just a symbol. Catholic’s believe what Jesus said it is the living Christ.

Another huge difference. Unfortunately, alot of Protestants follow the teaching of a man named Zwingli, who invented the symbolic “Eucharist” in the 1500’s. He was also notorious for his sexual adventures, even when he was a minister.

Baptism Of course what we give our Children at birth. The Catholic view is give that soul to God as soon as possible. Again alot of protestants disagree with.

Yeah, I thought the Protestants were supposedly the “Bible-only” people. Well, where in the Bible does it forbid baptism of infants? No doubt if Protestants lived in the Old Testament they would’ve objected to circumcision of infants.

Now I am not saying all protestants feel this way, but from the last two years on this site, Most.

But that is some of the biggest difference’s I have seen. And of course the Blessed Mother.

I still do not see how Protestants do not see that refusing to call Mary the Mother of God is downright heretical. Jesus is God. Mary is Jesus’ mother. Therefore (logic dictates) Mary is the Mother of God. It’s not rocket science.

How do other’s feel? Protestant and Catholic?

The question of authority is also fundamental.
Catholics believe the Bishops, successors of the Apostles, in union with the Successor of Peter, the Pope, are guardians of the Gospel and the Church’s understanding of Faith and morals, and that God gives them the power to ensure that they do.

Protestants, however, believe that each person has the final say to what he/she thinks the Bible says. They consider the individual to be the final arbiter of truth.

 

[jmcrae]

Our only necessary common denominator is an acknowledgement that God is who He says He is. Everything else is academic theology.

I agree that anyone who denies that God’s word (the bible) is true will have difficulty in their Christian walk. If they have a true understanding of what God did, they have to accept the Bible as the true word of God.

Actually, we have to accept Jesus Christ as the true Word of God. The Bible is only one of three modes of transmission through which Christ comes to us. The other two are the Magisterium (teaching office) of the Church, and the Holy Tradition (ie: Sacraments, liturgies, etc.).

Regarding Sacrements:

God didn’t “come up” with the sacrements.

The graces of the Sacraments flow forth from the side of Christ, in the blood and the water.

Man took the blessings that God gave us and created rituals and traditions to help people remember and honor those gifts.

Actually, it was God (Jesus) who created those rituals, and taught them to the Apostles, who then taught them to their successors. (I Corinthians 11:23 - “For I received from the Lord what I also handed unto you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed …”)

It is not the observance of those rituals that brings us eternal life.
The observance of the rituals of the sacrements makes us feel closer to God but only the appreciation of the gifts that the rituals represent will enhance our relationship with God.

Actually, feelings have nothing to do with the efficacy of the Sacraments. Faith, and the actions themselves (remember that a sacrament is a sign that does the thing that it signifies) are all that are required. We often read on these Forums about people coming out of Confession not “feeling” forgiven, and we invariably remind them that Confession isn’t about our feelings, primarily, but about the sincere intention to confess our sins (faith) plus the action itself (going to the priest and making a good Confession).

The sacrements themselves do not have any effect on anyone, believer or not. It is a mistake to think that because we observe certain ritual or acts that we are any more valued by God than an unbeliever.

The Sacraments certainly do have an effect, but the effect is not that the person who does them becomes “more valued” by God - obviously, God continues to love us just as He has always loved us. Our participation in the Sacraments has no effect on God’s love for us - rather, they increase our capacity to love God in return - that is to say, they imbue us with grace.

No where in the bible does God tell us that we have to be baptized as babies, take communion, make confession, be confirmed, get married blah blah blah, in order to have eternal life in heaven.

I beg to differ - the New Testament is filled to the brim with exhortations to the faithful to partake of the Sacraments - to be baptized, to receive Holy Communion, to confess their sins and be reconciled with God, to receive the anointing of the sick, to make the right use of marriage, to allocate the offices of preaching and service to upright and holy men, etc.

 

[rinnie]

Guanophore, I know you will also deny this, the same as Peter being the Leader. I agree I was wrong on when the first church was started, if you look at it as the first teachings as being the first Church. When I said Peter started the first Church in ROme and it was the ROman Catholic CHurch I still stand by this.

That is what I meant by the First Church. But if again its the first teachings after the death of Jesus, Yes it would be the room where they all met in Jerusalem. But I did not look at that room as a Church, and that was where I admit my error. To me and still today in my mind is the Roman Catholic CHurch in Rome, and it will always be the first Church. You can rip me up, and tear up what I believe. Thats okay. But this is the truth as I know it and believe it to be. And I am sorry he was called the Roman Catholic CHurch and still is today. I am sure this was a waste of time. You will of course deny everything. But that is okay. I believe that Jesus made Peter the leader, And Peter was the first Bishop of Rome. THey called it Bishop back then, today Pope.

Since the book of acts finishes with the first imprisoment of Paul in Rome and two volumes may be dated to around 59-61. The we can conclude the book of Mark must have been written between 38-61 A.D. thus confirming the 45A.D. compliation date and the Presence of PETER IN ROME AT THIS TIME.

I know you do not believe the code names.

Syriac Document which is an extract from a book concerning Abgar the king and the Apostle Thaddeus. outlines the areas of responsibility given to each apostle.
To SIMON PETER WAS ALLOTTED ROME. AND JOHN EPHESUS TO THOMAS INDIA TO ADDAEUS THE COU NTRY OF THE ASSYRIANS AND WHEN THEY WRE EACH SENT EACH ONE OF THEM TO THE DISTRICT WHICH HAD BEEN ALLOTED TO HIM THEY DEVOTED THEMSELVES TO BRING THE SEVERAL COUNTRIES TO DISCIPLESHIP ( THE ANTE-NICENE FATHERS.

 

[hays1122]

Another huge difference. Unfortunately, alot of Protestants follow the teaching of a man named Zwingli, who invented the symbolic “Eucharist” in the 1500’s. He was also notorious for his sexual adventures, even when he was a minister.
I still do not see how Protestants do not see that refusing to call Mary the Mother of God is downright heretical. Jesus is God. Mary is Jesus’ mother. Therefore (logic dictates) Mary is the Mother of God. It’s not rocket science.

I never heard of Zwingli,but I’ll read up on him.

I was taught that Mary is the Mother of God as Jesus is God who came to earth incarnate.
The problem comes when Catholics say the prayer,“Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.”
Jesus nor the apostles ever mentioned asking Mary to pray for us sinners. Jesus gave us instructions on how to pray.
Luke 11:2
"He said,“When you pray say,Our Father…”
Seems like somewhere in the bible we’d find instructions to ask Mary to pray for us sinners.
I have heard and read statements made about Mary that are over the top. Like these:
“Mary saw,knew and loved us even before we were born.”
“In Heaven,God loves to obey the desires of His Mother.”’
“All God’s graces are in Mary’s hands.”
“God has granted to Mary the power to obtain pardon for all sinners who ask for her assistance.”
“Devils are terrified of Mary.”
There are many more but I think that’s plenty for now.

 

[Matariel]

For one, those statements on Mary are not doctrines, and Catholics are free to agree/disagree with them.

For two, limiting all revelation to the Scriptures is, well, Protestant. Catholics do not believe the Bible contains all religious truth. For instance, the Bible doesn’t say life begins at conception, or that human cloning is wrong, or talk abour the Just War doctrine. The Church does, though.

 

[JonNC]

=hays1122;4649913]I was taught that Mary is the Mother of God as Jesus is God who came to earth incarnate.
The problem comes when Catholics say the prayer,“Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.”
Jesus nor the apostles ever mentioned asking Mary to pray for us sinners. Jesus gave us instructions on how to pray.
Luke 11:2
"He said,“When you pray say,Our Father…”
Seems like somewhere in the bible we’d find instructions to ask Mary to pray for us sinners.

I think a Catholic might say in response, why would we need instructions on how to ask someone to pray for us? In my Lutheran Church, and in most churches, we regularly ask our fellow Christians to pray for us and for those we love. Catholics, it seems to me, are not praying to Mary in the sense that we all pray to God. They are simply asking Mary to pray for them - in today’s language, a request. The issue is is Mary capable of hearing those requests.

I have heard and read statements made about Mary that are over the top. Like these:
“Mary saw,knew and loved us even before we were born.”
“In Heaven,God loves to obey the desires of His Mother.”’
“All God’s graces are in Mary’s hands.”
“God has granted to Mary the power to obtain pardon for all sinners who ask for her assistance.”
“Devils are terrified of Mary.”
There are many more but I think that’s plenty for now.

Some of these make me uncomfortable, as well. Of course, I’m not aware of the context of the statements.

Jon

 

[rinnie]

I never heard of Zwingli,but I’ll read up on him.

I was taught that Mary is the Mother of God as Jesus is God who came to earth incarnate.
The problem comes when Catholics say the prayer,“Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.”
Jesus nor the apostles ever mentioned asking Mary to pray for us sinners. Jesus gave us instructions on how to pray.
Luke 11:2
"He said,“When you pray say,Our Father…”
Seems like somewhere in the bible we’d find instructions to ask Mary to pray for us sinners.
I have heard and read statements made about Mary that are over the top. Like these:
“Mary saw,knew and loved us even before we were born.”
“In Heaven,God loves to obey the desires of His Mother.”’
“All God’s graces are in Mary’s hands.”
“God has granted to Mary the power to obtain pardon for all sinners who ask for her assistance.”
“Devils are terrified of Mary.”
There are many more but I think that’s plenty for now.

Well for starters is you believe that Mary is the Mother of Jesus, and Jesus is indeed the Son of God than yep its fits God is the Father, SON and Holy Spirit and yep Mary is the Mother so it fits.

Actually if you go to Job God does tell you that. He say to ask the righteous to Pray for you. So again yep Mary is righteous.

Now Do you believe it is possible for God to give the Apostles the Grace to forgive sin, to cure people etc. Do you believe Jesus had the power to pass this on? If you do, then why is it so hard to believe that God could give Mary certain Grace;s also.

The devil is terrified of Mary, Well is the devil afraid of God, then duh would he not be afraid of the Mother of CHrist or as the bible quotes Mary you have found favor with God the LORD IS WITH YOU.

The Catholic teachings have never said all Grace is in Mary’s hands. The bible itself saids all Grace comes from God. The Church teaches Mary was saved by Grace from God. We all must be saved from the Grace of God.

If you can show me anywhere in the teachings of the church, I will be anxious to see the things you claim. Either you do not understand Church teachings, or someone flat misled you…

Jesus does love his Mother, and does listen to her. Do you not love and Listen to your Mother and try to do what she asks of you?

If God knew us before we were born, and Mary is with God how can you say she did not see us before we were born. If God can, I do not find it hard to believe his Mother COULD also. But could you show me where Church teachings said Mary did indeed know us before we were born. Because I have been RC for 47 years and never knew that one.

And last why is it so hard to believe that we ask Mary to pray for us, we are indeed sinners, we ask her to pray for us now, and and the hour of our death. Whats wrong with that. You have never asked anyone to pray for you? Ever?

 

[jmcrae]

I never heard of Zwingli,but I’ll read up on him.

I was taught that Mary is the Mother of God as Jesus is God who came to earth incarnate.
The problem comes when Catholics say the prayer,“Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.”
Jesus nor the apostles ever mentioned asking Mary to pray for us sinners. Jesus gave us instructions on how to pray.
Luke 11:2
"He said,“When you pray say,Our Father…”
Seems like somewhere in the bible we’d find instructions to ask Mary to pray for us sinners.
I have heard and read statements made about Mary that are over the top. Like these:
“Mary saw,knew and loved us even before we were born.”

My own mother, when she herself was only five years old, and a good 20 years or so before I was born, dedicated me to God.

If my earthly Mom could love me so many years before I was born (and when she herself was only a little girl), why couldn’t Mary, my spiritual mother, also love me before I was born?

“In Heaven,God loves to obey the desires of His Mother.”’

That’s an odd way to phrase it, but do you not think that God loves to make His children smile? And would not Mary, who is His favourite as we see in the Magnificat (Luke 1) be the one that He most likes to make smile?

“All God’s graces are in Mary’s hands.”
“God has granted to Mary the power to obtain pardon for all sinners who ask for her assistance.”

I don’t really know what these ones are supposed to mean.

“Devils are terrified of Mary.”

As well they should be - she is the only human being who ever resisted them completely. Every time you pray the Hail Mary, it’s like throwing acid in the Devil’s face, because it reminds him of the one person he could never touch.

 

[JonNC]

=mabibleteacher;4646457]
Regarding Sacrements:
God didn’t “come up” with the sacrements. Man took the blessings that God gave us and created rituals and traditions to help people remember and honor those gifts. It is not the observance of those rituals that brings us eternal life.
The observance of the rituals of the sacrements makes us feel closer to God but only the appreciation of the gifts that the rituals represent will enhance our relationship with God.

The sacrements themselves do not have any effect on anyone, believer or not. It is a mistake to think that because we observe certain ritual or acts that we are any more valued by God than an unbeliever. They are merely activities done to encourage the rembrance of God’s gifts and blessings. They don’t bring us eternal life and not observing them doesn’t bring us loss of eternal life either
The bible tells us that nothing we can DO, no actions that we take can make us right in God’s eyes.
In Isaiah 64:6 the bible says *“all our righteous acts are like filthy rags”. *
The sacrements are rituals that are followed that were designed by man. Those rituals do not bring us eternal salvation.**No where in the bible does God tell us that we have to be baptized as babies, take communion, make confession, be confirmed, get married blah blah blah, in order to have eternal life in heaven. **

This is one “protestant” who couldn’t disagree more. The sacraments are vital means of grace, gifts that provide forgiveness of sins and help us to grow in grace. They certainly have an effect on the regenerate!! And they are mentioned in scripture:
Baptism - we are told to go into all nations and baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Babies are part of nations.
Communion - Christ tells us to receive His body and blood often.
Confession and Holy Absolution - The Power of the keys
And whether or not one refers to the other 4 as sacraments or rites, they too are means of grace, established by Christ.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

There is very little that “unites” the family of Christ. There are some who call themselves Christian, who deny the Resurrection, who deny the divinity of Christ, who deny the virginal motherhood of Mary, yet, they would insist on being considered members of the family of Christ. How far down must we go, to find our common denominator?

The three creeds.

Jon

 

[jmcrae]

The three creeds.

Jon

Rejected as “unbiblical” by most fundamental Christians.

So, decision time. Do we exclude them from Christianity, or do we lower the bar, so as to include them?

 

[JonNC]

Rejected as “unbiblical” by most fundamental Christians.

So, decision time. Do we exclude them from Christianity, or do we lower the bar, so as to include them?

Tough question, isn’t it. Though I think many of them reject creeds in general. As a result, they may accept what the Apostle’s Creed, for example, says, but reject the idea of creed.
Can’t back that up with anything but a feeling.

Let’s see, the Apostle’s Creed says:

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen

I can’t imagine what in here couldn’t be accepted by a Christian, except maybe communion of saints.

Jon

 

[jmcrae]

Tough question, isn’t it. Though I think many of them reject creeds in general. As a result, they may accept what the Apostle’s Creed, for example, says, but reject the idea of creed.
Can’t back that up with anything but a feeling.

Let’s see, the Apostle’s Creed says:

I can’t imagine what in here couldn’t be accepted by a Christian, except maybe communion of saints.

Jon

They would also have trouble with the title of Virgin, for Mary. I think they would want to reword that line to have it say, “And born of Mary, who at the time was a virgin.” Rather than name her with the title of Virgin, which suggests that she died in the state of virginity, without ever having had other children.

I also think they would get very wound up over the phrasing in both the Nicene and the Athanasian Creeds, which are rather explicit about there being only one Catholic Church, and that it has visible authority.

 

[JonNC]

They would also have trouble with the title of Virgin, for Mary. I think they would want to reword that line to have it say, “And born of Mary, who at the time was a virgin.” Rather than name her with the title of Virgin, which suggests that she died in the state of virginity, without ever having had other children.

I also think they would get very wound up over the phrasing in both the Nicene and the Athanasian Creeds, which are rather explicit about there being only one Catholic Church, and that it has visible authority.

And I guess some would have a problem with “one baptism for the remission of sin”.

Jon

 

[rinnie]

This is one “protestant” who couldn’t disagree more. The sacraments are vital means of grace, gifts that provide forgiveness of sins and help us to grow in grace. They certainly have an effect on the regenerate!! And they are mentioned in scripture:
Baptism - we are told to go into all nations and baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Babies are part of nations.
Communion - Christ tells us to receive His body and blood often.
Confession and Holy Absolution - The Power of the keys
And whether or not one refers to the other 4 as sacraments or rites, they too are means of grace, established by Christ.

Jon

Good for you. For being a protestant you do have a great understanding of the Catholic faith. ALso as far as baptism goes, in acts I believe Paul stays with a family. It states quiet clear that Paul baptises ALL OF THE FAMILY. And as we know most familys are made up of children. Again, for not being of our faith at least you do have a wonderful understanding of it.

 

[rinnie]

Tough question, isn’t it. Though I think many of them reject creeds in general. As a result, they may accept what the Apostle’s Creed, for example, says, but reject the idea of creed.
Can’t back that up with anything but a feeling.

Let’s see, the Apostle’s Creed says:

I can’t imagine what in here couldn’t be accepted by a Christian, except maybe communion of saints.

Jon

Remember too, Jesus said you are either hot or cold in your faith. You cannot be lukewarm. So the way I personally take that is you believe it all and you are hot. Or you pick and choose what you are going to believe and you are cold.

 

[guanophore]

How about this idea:

What does it matter? Why should we spend time focusing on what makes us different instead of what unites the family of Christ?

Because Jesus only founded One Church, and wants us to be united.

Sacrements, methods of worship, order of worship, confession in or out of a box…all of these things are traditions, rules and methods that MAN has come up with in an effort to feel more connected to God. The actions themselves mean nothing. What should matter most is the condition of our hearts towards God.

I agree that the most important is the attitude of the heart toward God. But, you are wrong that the actions are “meaningless”. If this were true, Jesus would not have instituted the sacraments. He would never have been baptized Himself!

What binds us together is that ALL Christian faiths accept that Jesus was sent here to restore man’s relationship with God and that is a merciful gift from God. We don’t deserve it, we can’t earn it and we can’t do anything to get it other than to make the choice to accept it and have eternal life with God when our physical bodies die. Or we can reject it and have eternal life in hell.

Yes,

The rest of the “stuff” is just picky details, personal preferences, upbringing, traditions and rules. None of that matters to God so why should it matter to us?

It does matter, which is why He said we were to worship in spirit an in truth. It is not just picky details, but significant departure from the Teaching of Jesus.

 

[guanophore]

Our only necessary common denominator is an acknowledgement that God is who He says He is. Everything else is academic theology.

I guess if you wish to reduce yourself to the level that the demons reside, that is your perogative.

I agree that anyone who denies that God’s word (the bible) is true will have difficulty in their Christian walk. If they have a true understanding of what God did, they have to accept the Bible as the true word of GodHowever doubt or lack of understanding are not the same as denial. As Christians, it is our job to build on what unites us and work toward helping others to understand their misconceptions.

I agree. That is the whole purpose of CAF.

It is not our job to judge or isolate ourselves from others who have different beliefs.

No, but it is our duty to promote the Apostolic Teaching, and to point out where some have left the path.

If there is division among the family of God, it is of OUR own doing, not of Gods. What I said was that instead of focusing on what makes us different, we should celebrate what brings us together.

Where would you like to start?

Division among God’s people because of worship preference is exactly what satan wants because it prevents man from succeeding in God’s Kingdom.

I agree, but the whole notion of “worship preference” is misleading. It is God who ordains how we will worship, not we ourselves.

Regarding Sacrements:

God didn’t “come up” with the sacrements. Man took the blessings that God gave us and created rituals and traditions to help people remember and honor those gifts.

Well, we see it differently. Do you not read the New Testament?

It is not the observance of those rituals that brings us eternal life.
The observance of the rituals of the sacrements makes us feel closer to God but only the appreciation of the gifts that the rituals represent will enhance our relationship with God.

This is contrary to what the Apostles taught. They were not concerned about “feelings”, but about truth.

The sacrements themselves do not have any effect on anyone, believer or not. It is a mistake to think that because we observe certain ritual or acts that we are any more valued by God than an unbeliever.

It is clear that you do not understand what sacraments are. It is interesting that you would make such assertions when you don’t understand them.

It gives the reader the impression that you are exposed to anti-Catholic teaching.

They are merely activities done to encourage the rembrance of God’s gifts and blessings. They don’t bring us eternal life and not observing them doesn’t bring us loss of eternal life either

Your personal opinion contradicts the Apostolic teaching.

The bible tells us that nothing we can DO, no actions that we take can make us right in God’s eyes.

Really? Where did you read that? Where did you get a “bible”?

Rom 2:13
13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

Who is righteous in God’s sight?

In Isaiah 64:6 the bible says *“all our righteous acts are like filthy rags”. *

you have taken this verse out of context. Isaiah is talking about actions without faith.

The sacrements are rituals that are followed that were designed by man.

This is a false statement.

Those rituals do not bring us eternal salvation. No where in the bible does God tell us that we have to be baptized as babies, take communion, make confession, be confirmed, get married blah blah blah, in order to have eternal life in heaven.

if you think that all this is “blah, blah, blah”, why are you here?

The only requirement laid down in God’s own word (the bible) for us to have eternal life with God is spelled out very clearly:

**Ephesians 2:8-9- **For it is by grace you have been saved, though faith- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast"

Again you have made another false statement. This is not the only requirement in God’s word.

1 John 2:3-6
3 Now by this we may be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments. 4 Whoever says, “I have come to know him,” but does not obey his commandments, is a liar, and in such a person the truth does not exist; 5 but whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has reached perfection. By this we may be sure that we are in him: 6 whoever says, “I abide in him,” ought to walk just as he walked.

Romans 10:9- If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, then you will be saved"
Also
Acts 16:31- Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

Do you believe that true faith is obedient faith?

In regard to the use of gifts:

What “situation” and “use” are you referring to? We cannot earn our way into heaven by observing certain rituals or activities. The only way we can have eternal salvation is through the acceptance of God. The things we do after that come out of a desire to please God, not because if we don’t we can’t go to heaven.

It is very Catholic of you to say this!