big difference between Catholics and Protestants

[nbtb1348]

I am surprised you would say this. You seem to have such a love of scripture, and are into “exegesis”. The truth is that it DOES matter what the Apostle was referring to when he wrote this passage. It matters because it helps us to understand the meaning of the passage, and how it applies to us.

When people gather “in His name” it is a reference to all that He is, and all that He represents. He is the Head of the Body, the Church. His Church is in unity with Him. When we gather in His name, we are in that unity. Otherwise, we are just fooling ourselves.

I will agree that the attacks of the enemy to lay things on the believer are, indeed, as old as the Church. However, it is the Church that triumphs over these attacks. She does because Jesus promised that the gates of hell (teaching of error) would not prevail. It is His infallibility that makes the Church unable to err.

Your posts have made it clear that this is not the case. However, I believe that you think you do, and that your failure to do so result from misunderstandings and ignorance of what they taught. You are clearly doing the best you can with what you have, limited though it is.

Thank you for your prayers. Every little bit helps! It was quite some time after I got “saved” and had the “personal Lord and saviour” experience that I returned to the One True Church founded by Christ. I did not know that all those other denominations were founded by men, separated from the Apostolic Tradition. I was in ignorance and misunderstanding too.

“They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.”–I John 2:19

 

[nbtb1348]

Well, I think it does matter. Timothy had no New Testament. He couldn’t just look up John 3:16 and read - it hadn’t been written, yet.

He was interpreting the Old Testament in the light of the Apostolic Tradition that was being given to him by St. Paul, who in his turn was receiving it from Peter and James.

Please notice also that St. Paul describes the Scriptures as being “profitable for” - not as being “solely sufficient for” the building up of the Kingdom.

And so…“It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up.” We enjoy the gifted people God has raised up around the world to teach the world. Click on this link and step into the presence of one of the multitudes of amazing teachers of the Word. One read of Sproul on the holiness of God and you will know how much homework you have ahead of you!

ligonier.org/

 

[Church_Militant]

You know, as Will Rogers said a long time ago, Saying it doesn’t necessarily make it so. You guys say a lot that just isn’t true.

Unfortunately for you, this could easily be as well said of your own faith community and even your remarks about my own faith. When Mr Rogers (God rest his soul) is decreed infallible then I’ll worry much about his often poignant truisms.

I celebrate the fact that the Roman church holds to the deity of Christ, the virgin birth and the divine inspiration of scripture. I do not celebrate the things I have pointed out.

Sorry, I don’t belong to any “Roman church” and I’d frankly appreciate it if you’d avoid future use of your anti-Catholic rhetorical nomenclature. I doubt you would appreciate it we did something similar to you. After all, you are guest here in a Catholic forum by your own choice.

First…it shows the anemia of your argument that when you point to Peter’s sermon and response in Acts, you try to make your case for a works-involved salvation (your words in your article) by pointing to the command to be baptized! For one thing, baptism was the way people made their ‘profession of faith’ You didn’t ‘come forward’ at the end of the sermon; you got baptised. It was woven into the decision to repent and believe.

I’m sorry but that is not what the scripture says. I really don’t care anymore what Protestants do in their services, and we Catholics do not practice that sort of “evangelism” as it does not reflect the deeper conversion that our Lord calls for. That does not mean that I think that all n-Cs are unconverted…it just means that I believe that the message that many respond to is a different and deficient “gospel”.

For another thing, that is the only act other than repentance and faith, that you can cite in Scripture where a writer or speaker says you have to do anything to be saved, beyond those things.

You just don’t get the fact that salvation by grace through faith is what makes you an ETERNAL child of God. The works that follow simply PROVE you are!

No, I’m afraid that you wish, we Catholics did not “get” that, but since that is nothing more than a straw man argument since it argues against something that the church has not ever, does not now, and never will teach or preach.

I’m glad you quote Galatians again, where Paul curses anyone who preaches another gospel. Notice what he says about that matter in Galatians:

 ***"We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ***. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified."

Don’t you think if there was more to it, Paul would have said so right here? **He didn’t, and he doesn’t anywhere! ** You have to hide from his teaching on salvation by grace through faith in order to protect your pernicious and cursed teaching about works being part of what saves us. You are in a very dangerous and unenviable place.

Yeah, so I suppose that the very statement to St. Paul by Ananias at his conversion is some sort of false gospel when he plainly says, “16 And now why tarriest thou? Rise up, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.”

It clearly was being stated that the act of baptism washed away sins. Yet you deny this?!! Certainly only one who has received the gift of faith would do this because he would believe that it does what is promised in this verse (and many others). A faithless baptism would hold no efficacy. “…For all that is not of faith is sin.”

 

[guanophore]

There are 3 tenses to sanctification. But Paul makes it clear in Rom 8:29-30 that all he justifies will experience the final sanctification (glorification).

No. Paul is writing in the past tense. He is writing about those who have already gone to their reward.

Many begin in the Spirit, yet finish in the flesh.

I pray you can follow the beautiful chain of logic and theology in this passage.

Oh, I follow the golden chain just fine. I follow it right to an end that contradicts the Teachings of the Apostles.

You believe God leaves the eternal destiny of those he has brought into his family, up to THEM.

This is the essence of love. Love sets free. Love gives choice.
God does not want puppets, He wants fellowship. He wants eternity with those that choose to be with HIm.

We believe when he planned in eternity past to save us, He committed to see his children through to the end.  That's the God of the Bible, the heavenly Father.

Yes, this is Catholic. The father also allows His children to depart from Him if they so choose.

*“For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed *to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.”

Past tense. Already completed in the past. If this could be applied to the present, then it would not be possible for those God intended to save to reject His purpose for themselves.

Two more pearls for you...

“Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, when we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!”–Rom 5:9,10

This is why, when one sins after coming to this knowledge of the truth, there remains no sacrifice.

See if this describes you. If not…

*“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!”-- II Cor 5:17 *

He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

You might want to consider a visit to the forum rules, nbtb. CAF is not provided as a venue for you to perform your bible christian evangelism. We are here to answer sincere questions about the Catholic faith. So far as I can see, you seem to believe you already have all the answers you want.

 

[guanophore]

“They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.”–I John 2:19

There are some that never believed, and just went thru the motions. There are others who become partakers of His grace,then spurn the blood that bought them. Jesus talks about four different kinds of believers, and only one are those that never sprout (did not belong to us). The other three fourths all sprout. Of those, two thirds fail to persevere. I know, you will probably say that this does not apply to Christains, just like Hebrews does not?

 

[elvisman]

There are 3 tenses to sanctification. But Paul makes it clear in Rom 8:29-30 that all he justifies will experience the final sanctification (glorification). I pray you can follow the beautiful chain of logic and theology in this passage. You believe God leaves the eternal destiny of those he has brought into his family, up to THEM. We believe when he planned in eternity past to save us, He committed to see his children through to the end. That’s the God of the Bible, the heavenly Father.

*“For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed *to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.”

Two more pearls for you…

“Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, when we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!”–Rom 5:9,10

See if this describes you. If not…

*“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!”-- II Cor 5:17 *

He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

**Ehhhh - WRONG again. Boy, you have to be getting tired of being wrong.

First of all, nbtb1348, Im still waiting for an apology for the “Romanist” remark. I see how you clipped that out of your response.

Secondly, EVERY Evangelical I’ve ever known - including my 9 brothers and sisters says the same thing about people who fall back into alife of sin:
"They were never really Christian to begin with."

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**The problem with this comment is that you can NEVER know if somebody is “Truly” a Christian, can you? You can’t tell if somebody is saved - not even yourself. **
Jesus knew this and that is why he said that those who "persevere to the end will be saved.” (Matt. 24:13)
Paul knew this when he wrote 1 Cor. 9:27, “I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified”.

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The problem is, my angry friend - YOU don’t know this yet.