BIG NFP problems

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piratecove

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My wife and I need some help. We have used STM off and on (in between preg. And BF) during our 12 years of marriage and we have six children. She has hormone issues that cause her to produce tons of the thick mucus and makes the signs difficult to read, thus the six children. We have seen several NFP specialists to try and regulate her hormones so we can reliably postpone pregnancy. We have gone bankrupt and are on welfare. I do work full-time, but I don’t’ make enough to get us over the poverty level. This is sounding pretty pathetic isn’t it? We have used condoms since #6 was born. We have consulted with our priest and he was very understanding and sympathetic with our plight he gave us some information about the church’s stance on ABC (which we know about since we have been CCL promoters). My wife is physically and mentally to the point of desperation. I have been praying intensely about what to do. I have been trying to help her keep open to life but she is pretty much finished with the whole NFP thing and frequently talks about one of us getting fixed. Sorry about the clipped nature of this post but I’m at work and in a hurry. NFP 99% effective is baloney unless you have perfect cycles, etc. Please don’t post any obvious or flippant answers and say a prayer for us. Thanks for any help. I will add more details if needed.
 
I am a new teacher of the Billings Ovulation Method (“BOM”), which I believe is more simple and reliable method of NFP than other methods, including STM. (To other posters: let’s not debate my opinion on this. I understand and accept that others feel differently.) Anyway, there could be a number of reasons for the excess mucus including overstimulation caused by the touching required by some methods. BOM works for any type of cycle and does not require touching. Have you tried consulting a BOM teacher in your area? I don’t believe I am qualified to answer your questions and this is something for which you should see a BOM teacher in person.

Here’s a website to learn more about BOM: boma-usa.org/

You can also search for an instructor from that website. You can also call or email the association. I hope this helps and is not considered “obvious or flippant”. However, I will still say prayers for you.
 
Yes we have used BOM also and it resulted in two months of abstinence. I think that is when our third child came along because we quit trying any method. By the way I love each one of my kids dearly and I do not regret anything. This is question of my wife’s sanity and trying to provide more than a minimal existence for them. Thanks for the prayers.
 
What are you and your wife’s ages?

How faithful to charting are you both? Do you chart the cervix symptom as well as the mucus and temp symptoms?

How soon after you married did you begin to practice NFP, and how soon after you married did you conceive your first child?

What’s the average length of time your wife experiences lactation amenorrhea?

Does your wife also work outside the home?
 
Check out www.popepaulvi.com , Dr. Hilger’s NaPro clinic. He is THE specialist on all things NFP, and he has trained many doctors, nurses, and nurse practitioners all over the country. Call them and see if there is someone near you that you can go see. They also do long distance consults, where you get your labs and stuff done locally and then fax them the info, they can order your meds and treatments by phone. They do amazing things with getting hormone levels under control when women have hormonal imbalances. God bless you, and I will pray for you both. :crossrc:
 
BeeSweet said:
What are you and your wife’s ages?

How faithful to charting are you both? Do you chart the cervix symptom as well as the mucus and temp symptoms?

How soon after you married did you begin to practice NFP, and how soon after you married did you conceive your first child?

What’s the average length of time your wife experiences lactation amenorrhea?

Does your wife also work outside the home?
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We were very faithful in the beginning until we got so many inconclusive signs. And we used ALL the signs. My wife is an RN and is well versed in the anatomy.

We began our marriage with NFP and took the class before we were married. We concieved on the second month of married life.

Various. She worked during #1 and #2, but ecologically BF with #3-5. #6 is a terrible BF’der. This has pretty much been our only form of spacing.

No.
 
Teakafrog said:
Check out www.popepaulvi.com , Dr. Hilger’s NaPro clinic. He is THE specialist on all things NFP, and he has trained many doctors, nurses, and nurse practitioners all over the country. Call them and see if there is someone near you that you can go see. They also do long distance consults, where you get your labs and stuff done locally and then fax them the info, they can order your meds and treatments by phone. They do amazing things with getting hormone levels under control when women have hormonal imbalances. God bless you, and I will pray for you both. :crossrc:
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We did this in Lincoln NE with Dr Hayes. After diagnosis with PCOS, then retest inconclusive. His conclusion was to accept a large family. That was three kids ago.
 
piratecove said:
We did this in Lincoln NE with Dr Hayes. After diagnosis with PCOS, then retest inconclusive. His conclusion was to accept a large family. That was three kids ago.
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Have you tried ovulation predictor sticks, etc.? (I know they can get pricey and it may not be feasible in your situation.)

I just want to add my prayers to those of previous posters. I understand completely how very difficult a situation this can be, as we used NFP for years and often were completely confused by the same sort of symptoms your wife is experiencing. You sound like a good husband, understandably frustrated and concerned for your wife.

In my situation, I had an early natural menopause (43) which took care of the uncertainty.

God bless. I wish I had more to tell you; SOMEONE must have an answer for you.
 
piratecove said:
My wife and I need some help. We have used STM off and on (in between preg. And BF) during our 12 years of marriage and we have six children. She has hormone issues that cause her to produce tons of the thick mucus and makes the signs difficult to read, thus the six children. We have seen several NFP specialists to try and regulate her hormones so we can reliably postpone pregnancy. We have gone bankrupt and are on welfare. I do work full-time, but I don’t’ make enough to get us over the poverty level. This is sounding pretty pathetic isn’t it? We have used condoms since #6 was born. We have consulted with our priest and he was very understanding and sympathetic with our plight he gave us some information about the church’s stance on ABC (which we know about since we have been CCL promoters). My wife is physically and mentally to the point of desperation. I have been praying intensely about what to do. I have been trying to help her keep open to life but she is pretty much finished with the whole NFP thing and frequently talks about one of us getting fixed. Sorry about the clipped nature of this post but I’m at work and in a hurry. NFP 99% effective is baloney unless you have perfect cycles, etc. Please don’t post any obvious or flippant answers and say a prayer for us. Thanks for any help. I will add more details if needed.
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Have you looked into the Marquette Model? Maybe the monitor would be helpful. 🤷 I don’t know what elso to offer.
 
I’m not going to get into methods or statistics or how well or poorly NFP works for you. But rather I hope you will continue to focus on being faithful to Christ. Contraception and sterilization are always a moral evil. Even if your cross includes extended abstinence, it is preferrable to mortal sin.
 
piratecove said:
After diagnosis with PCOS, then retest inconclusive. His conclusion was to accept a large family.
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Well that sounds pretty frustrating. Not to mention irresponsible on the part of the dr. :hmmm:
piratecove said:
We were very faithful in the beginning until we got so many inconclusive signs. And we used ALL the signs. My wife is an RN and is well versed in the anatomy.
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I can understand the mucus sign being inconclusive, especially considering all the pregnancies. But the cervix sign was also inconsistent? With all the inconsistencies, that makes charting all the more important, even though I know how frustrating it can be. I am borderline PCOS. My cycles are fairly consistent, but don’t ask me what my mucus sign means at any given time. I’ve had months when I have more than I know what to do with, and other months when the mucus sign practically vanished. 🤷 The cervix sign was always my saving grace, combined with the temps.
piratecove said:
We began our marriage with NFP and took the class before we were married. We concieved on the second month of married life.

Various. She worked during #1 and #2, but ecologically BF with #3-5. #6 is a terrible BF’der. This has pretty much been our only form of spacing.
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Yeah, it doesn’t sound like you’ve had much of an opportunity to really practice STM NFP. With all the pregnancies, combined with less than faithful charting methods, you just can not count on it to be effective in the least.

Are you still working with a CCL couple as your coaches? Just because you worked as a promoter doesn’t mean they should leave you completely without support for your own personal circumstances.

What edition of The Art of Natural Family Planning do you have right now?

Please don’t give up on NFP. I don’t mean to judge you harshly, but I believe you could give it a better chance. Are you as the husband managing the actual chart as is recommended by CCL, or do you leave that up to your wife?
 
piratecove said:
… By the way I love each one of my kids dearly and I do not regret anything. This is question of my wife’s sanity and trying to provide more than a minimal existence for them. Thanks for the prayers.
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Prayers for you. :gopray:

I don’t mean this to sound flippant, but I do not understand what your question is or the point of your thread. You know the Church teachings. You love the children God has already given you, and you love your wife. If this is truly a matter of your wife’s sanity and providing for existing children, then abstinence might be the best choice for you at the present time.

May God give you the grace of final perseverance.
 
I have 6 children as well. I don’t know what you call what we do. We only have sex when I think I am not ovulating, I do not chart, or do temp or any of that cervix stuff, just abstain. We do want more though.
 
gardenswithkids said:
Prayers for you. :gopray:

I don’t mean this to sound flippant, but I do not understand what your question is or the point of your thread. You know the Church teachings. You love the children God has already given you, and you love your wife. If this is truly a matter of your wife’s sanity and providing for existing children, then abstinence might be the best choice for you at the present time.

May God give you the grace of final perseverance.
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My priest disagrees with this type of thinking as do I. He does not think we should have to abstain for an undertermined amount of time. We have done that before and it places a great deal of stress on our marriage. We will continue to work with our priest and take advantage of the pastoral sensitivity that he offers. He also has made it clear that we are confilcted and under alot of pressure and he made it clear to us to continue to seek the sacraments for grace and strength.
 
While I fully sympathize with your situation, I get the feeling that your priest is indirectly giving his blessing to contraception by saying that you shouldn’t abstain because it’s hurting your marriage…and that you agree with him.

As I see it, you cannot financially handle more children right now so it would be a good idea to avoid. As other posters have pointed out, it doesn’t really seem like ya’ll are following NFP–by using breastfeeding without any charting and when signs are inconclusive, not abstaining.

I’d encourage you to give NFP another shot. As a Catholic, you cannot contracept. It’s that plain and simple. You can avoid or you can use NFP.

Sorry if this post sounds a bit blunt–know that I will be praying for you and your wife! :gopray2:
 
piratecove said:
My priest disagrees with this type of thinking as do I. He does not think we should have to abstain for an undertermined amount of time. We have done that before and it places a great deal of stress on our marriage. We will continue to work with our priest and take advantage of the pastoral sensitivity that he offers. He also has made it clear that we are confilcted and under alot of pressure and he made it clear to us to continue to seek the sacraments for grace and strength.
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So then, you really don’t have a question, you just came here because you want us all to agree that it’s “great” that you are using condoms? Well, it’s not. According to the Church you have two options, complete abstinence (difficult but totally possible) or periodic abstinence (that’s NFP). Perhaps you could try STM again and get better at taking her morning temp and recording that and mucous and cervix position. I would give NFP another serious attempt before turning to a moral evil. One would think with serious reasons, that would be enough of a motivator. Is it always easy, heck NO! Whoever said that life would be easy? Infact the moral and right thing to do is often the hardest. Maybe a refresher course in NFP is needed, even if your wife IS a nurse–it never hurts to brush up on the rules.

Also, perhaps the addition of a vitamen suppliment, such as Optivite would help her fertiltiy signs be clearer. Have you read the book Fertilty, Cycles and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon? It gives good advice for clearing up cycle irregularities and clarity of cycles through nutrition and suppliments. It’s available through CCLI or even Amazon.com.

Finally, I will pray for you and your wife. We have 6 children and life can be difficult. Those difficulites don’t give us the right to knowingly sin, though.

God bless you
 
Jennifer_J said:
So then, you really don’t have a question, you just came here because you want us all to agree that it’s “great” that you are using condoms? Well, it’s not. According to the Church you have two options, complete abstinence (difficult but totally possible) or periodic abstinence (that’s NFP). Perhaps you could try STM again and get better at taking her morning temp and recording that and mucous and cervix position. I would give NFP another serious attempt before turning to a moral evil. One would think with serious reasons, that would be enough of a motivator. Is it always easy, heck NO! Whoever said that life would be easy? Infact the moral and right thing to do is often the hardest. Maybe a refresher course in NFP is needed, even if your wife IS a nurse–it never hurts to brush up on the rules.

Also, perhaps the addition of a vitamen suppliment, such as Optivite would help her fertiltiy signs be clearer. Have you read the book Fertilty, Cycles and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon? It gives good advice for clearing up cycle irregularities and clarity of cycles through nutrition and suppliments. It’s available through CCLI or even Amazon.com.

Finally, I will pray for you and your wife. We have 6 children and life can be difficult. Those difficulites don’t give us the right to knowingly sin, though.

God bless you
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Your mean-spirited tone is not welcome at all. Do not assume you know what I came here looking for. Easy answers and acceptance to do wrong? Quite the contrary. I AM looking for other couples who are going through similar struggles for some additional ideas and SUPPORT during this trying time. I’m struggling with this.

Shannon’s advice borders on quackery and has not helped at all. We need your prayers, but leave it to my priest to guide us in the proper moral direction.
 
dixieagle said:
Have you tried ovulation predictor sticks, etc.? (I know they can get pricey and it may not be feasible in your situation.)

I just want to add my prayers to those of previous posters. I understand completely how very difficult a situation this can be, as we used NFP for years and often were completely confused by the same sort of symptoms your wife is experiencing. You sound like a good husband, understandably frustrated and concerned for your wife.

In my situation, I had an early natural menopause (43) which took care of the uncertainty.

God bless. I wish I had more to tell you; SOMEONE must have an answer for you.
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Thank you for understanding! It means so much to me. We have not tried the predictors and I will look into them and see if they can help.
 
piratecove said:
Your mean-spirited tone is not welcome at all. Do not assume you know what I came here looking for. Easy answers and acceptance to do wrong? Quite the contrary. I AM looking for other couples who are going through similar struggles for some additional ideas and SUPPORT during this trying time. I’m struggling with this.

Shannon’s advice borders on quackery and has not helped at all. We need your prayers, but leave it to my priest to guide us in the proper moral direction.
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I think that is uncalled for. Jennifer merely restated the Church’s teaching on birth control. You may not want to hear it, but she is right. Being Catholic isn’t easy, but the Church’s teachings aren’t there for no reason. Contraception is waaaaay more deadly to a marriage than abstainence.

There are many couples on here who follow the Church’s teachings and it isn’t easy. We can give you the support of our prayers and our suggestions, but we can’t condone you going against Church teaching.

If you feel that your priest’s advice trumps the Church’s teaching, then you shouldn’t be asking for approval on a Catholic website because we are going to tell you that your pastor is wrong. 🤷

God gives many couples difficulties in their marriages. For some it is the blessing of many children but the sacrifice of strict use of NFP. For other couples it is the sacrifice of infertility but the blessing of not having to use NFP. Either way, the fertile couple is not allowed to use contraception and the infertile couple is not allowed to use means to conceive against Church teaching. God gives your the grace to get through whatever cross He gives you.

Prayers,

kevinsgirl
 
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