Big Question!

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StacyS

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I hope I am in the right forum for this question. If I’m not, can someone point me as to where I should post it?

Ok, folks. I need a lot of help!!!

I have a good, dear friend who is trying, quite desperately I’m afraid, to convince me to leave the Catholic Church. She is Church of Christ (strong belief in Sola Scriptura).

When my daughter started Catholic School last year, she began to ask questions about Jesus, God, and religion. Having been raised in a moderately Catholic family, I felt like I could not answer these questions adequately.

My friend suggested we Bible study together to better equip myself in these discussions with my daughter. The first few studies (which were prepared by a member of her church) seemed simple enough. However, when we hit the one on Baptism, a little warning bell went off in my head. That particular study was not very pleasant, with us…heatedly debating the topic. Again, my knowledge of the Catholic Church was quite poor. Though I knew WHAT we believe, I could not support WHY we believe it. The more studies I read through, the more I became convinced that this was a study meant to convert Catholics.

She later gave me a gift containing two books written by Joanne Howe. Ms. Howe was a nun who left the Catholic faith. I was quite taken aback. I read one book, and was really not impressed. I took two pages of notes from Catholic references disputing one paragraph from the book, and decided it wasn’t worth the effort to try to disprove the whole thing.

Now, my friend is pulling of her gloves and hitting me left and right with anti-Catholic information, and I don’t know what to do. I know, that in her heart, she is concerned for me. I know that she loves me and my family, and she believes that it is up to her to bring us to salvation.

So, my question is…How do I politely convince her to give me space while I figure this out on my own? I would hate to admit to her, at this point, that for all her trying, I am only being called back to the Catholic Church more strongly. I am reading all kinds of Catholic literature, listening to back shows of Catholic Answers, and loving every second of it. I recently went back to confession for the first time in six years after discovering I couldn’t bring myself to accept communion until I did. I have signed up for RCIA classes this year, so that I can better instruct my children in their faith. BUT, I’m not educated enough at this point to properly defend my faith with my friend, and I am tired of saying, “I don’t know the answer.” Can anyone help me?

:bigyikes: Yikes, that’s a long explaination for that question. Forgive me.
 
You might be interested in the Catholic-Church of Christ debate that was held four years ago in Texas.

I particularly recommend the very last speech by Fr. Callam, the Catholic debater.
 
I can really answer this, my mom’s best friend and my friend who is her daughter attend the church of Christ.

There really is no way to win because they:
  1. Believe in hierarcy
    They do not believe in the Pope nor recgonize his power
They do believe that “Elders” have the right to be spiritual guides
  1. Believe in marriage:
    They rarly recognize that marriage is not for someone. Often young widows are incouraged to marry.
They do not believe in dedicating chastity to God. They believe it is unnatural and causes mental disorders. They will even find quotes in the Bible
  1. Personal Interpertation of the Bible
    They have the right to interpert the Bible through divine inspiration. They can disagree with others becasue God means to reveal different things with them
  2. Childhood Baptism
    There baptism is similar to confirmation or Most Holy Eucharist. A person who was born into the faith is usually baptized anywhere from 8-16 years old
These are things you may or may not know.

“Dear Friend. I believe that you are taught to respect other religions (I KNOW this is true but not often followed) and I would appreciate it if you respected mine. I cannot attend your church because I am busy with mine.” (For all that is good and right in the world do NOT attend any servces or Bible studies even if you are a strong Catholic, your friend will be badgered to bring you back and may even be shamed by the rest of the congregation if you do not return)
Do not be afraid to say you don’t know. Pride is a sin and this is one that will be greatly exposed if you give lame or even well thought out answers. If you are close to the pastor at your church ask him if he could help you or reccommend any books for this particular denomation.

The greatest trick of the CoC is that they will try to convince you that they have the correct view of hierarchy and that Christ is their only guide.
 
If it’s any consolation, Stacy, your friend is no better educated in Catholicism than you are. She’s just been taught to argue a limited number of points over and over in an effort to wear you down. Likely what information she has been taught is false as well.

Honestly, the best way to get her off of your back on the subject might just be to thank her for causing you to get off your duff and educate yourself about your own faith! Thank her for making you want to question Catholicism, study it for answers, and end up with a stronger faith and more fully convinced that the Catholic church is the true church. Maybe God sent her to test you. Maybe God wants you to re-educate her. Who knows.

Catholic Answers is a good resource for apologetics. If there are a handful of topics that she keeps coming back to (let me guess: Mary, the saints, the Whore of Babylon, Tradition of the Church as opposed to Sola Scriptura, the Pope, the Eucharist), try looking them up here to see what materials are available to you. I know there are Catholic Bible Study materials available as well (not sure what they are). Maybe someone else here knows? You could obtain some of these, and request to use these instead- if pressed, you could remind her that your Bible has 7 more books in it and you don’t want to ignore them.😉

Good luck and God bless you.
 
I would distance myself from her. Thank her for giving you plenty to think about and that you want to do your own research. Tell her that if you have any questions for her then you will ask her but to leave you alone for now.

Tell her that the Holy Spirit is speaking to your heart and you want a chance to listen.

You know, you have to love these people. I mean that sincerely. They really only mean good for us even if they are misguided. When a friend tries to convert me, I thank her for her love for me. I also tell her that I am not looking for a debate. It might be that later on you will be more conversant in your faith and the two of you will be able to talk both intelligently and charitably.
 
I personally think you should relate the last paragraph you wrote, to her. Tell her that the more stuff she hits you with the more you find out that they are not true and the stronger Catholic you become. Tell her that specifally b/c of the stuff she is saying that you are committed into learning more Catholic theology.

That might give her a pause.
 
If your friend is a member of the Boston Church of Christ, then do not feel alone. The majority of Protestants believe that sect to be a cult. These people actually believe that their salvation partly depends on how many people they can convert to their religion - which is probably why you sense such urgency in her efforts.

Whatever may be the case, your first duty is to convince her that you are a Christian, all brands of Christianity aside. In my experience, that is all that is needed to get people of such backgrounds to “lay off.” It is likely that this will not be enough if your friend IS from the Boston Church of Christ, as this group believes they are the only true church and shirks ecumenism even with any other Protestant denomination.

I have had people approach me from that sect, and what usually and normally stops them in their tracks is my own knowledge of Scripture, since I am a convert from Baptist Protestantism. Reasoned explanations from Scripture should be enough even for these sectarians to “lay off.” So, after convincing her that Jesus is your Lord and Savior ALONE, be more than willing to go over the Bible with her. Of course, this requires some training in apologetics, as you seem to already be starting to do.

God bless you,
Greg
 
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GAssisi:
If your friend is a member of the Boston Church of Christ, then do not feel alone. The majority of Protestants believe that sect to be a cult. These people actually believe that their salvation partly depends on how many people they can convert to their religion - which is probably why you sense such urgency in her efforts.
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Sadly, this is true…to the youngest children they expain salvation as a room full of files. Only those who have the biggest files of lives that they have brought to Christ are ammited to Heaven.

This story has filtered to a NY church of christ
 
Thank you so much for all of the advice! Keep it comin’! I will, certainly listen to the debate!
As some of you have mentioned, I ***KNOW ***her intentions are noble. I do not hold any ill-will at all, and I love her, dearly. I do not wish to end the friendship over this, though, sometimes I fear it might.
She pushed…very hard…for my 6 yo daughter to attend VBS at her church. At first thought, my husband and I saw no problems with it, deciding that anything she might learn that we didn’t agree with, we could explain the Catholic views. However, she was pushing so hard, and knowing that they consider the age of accountablity to be somewhere between 7 and 8 years old, we were concerned that they (whether the friend or the church) might try to indoctrinate her.
She told me that she is very excited that I have signed up for the RCIA class. She is hoping it will teach me the “truth” about the Catholic faith. Though, she did say that maybe I would be able to convert her after the class.
 
If she keeps on trying to convert you, hand her a Catechism. Tell her that this is what the Church actually teaches, anything else is just a myth.
If she still wants to show you how wrong the teachings are, she’ll have to do it from there, anything else would be half-truths and misconceptions (probably through no fault of her own) of the teachings.
 
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StacyS:
Thank you so much for all of the advice! Keep it comin’! I will, certainly listen to the debate!
As some of you have mentioned, I ***KNOW ***her intentions are noble. I do not hold any ill-will at all, and I love her, dearly. I do not wish to end the friendship over this, though, sometimes I fear it might.
She pushed…very hard…for my 6 yo daughter to attend VBS at her church. At first thought, my husband and I saw no problems with it, deciding that anything she might learn that we didn’t agree with, we could explain the Catholic views. However, she was pushing so hard, and knowing that they consider the age of accountablity to be somewhere between 7 and 8 years old, we were concerned that they (whether the friend or the church) might try to indoctrinate her.
She told me that she is very excited that I have signed up for the RCIA class. She is hoping it will teach me the “truth” about the Catholic faith. Though, she did say that maybe I would be able to convert her after the class.
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Under NO conditions, allow your daughter to attend their VBS. They will try to get to you through your daughter and who knows what they will say to her. I don’t even allow my children to attend a mainstream Protestant VBS because I don’t want to confuse them. I am teaching my children about Mary and other Catholic beliefs and I don’t want my kids having to argue their faith when they are still a tender age. Kids don’t have the life experiences to know when someone is leading them astray.

(Just my thoughts on the matter).
 
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SusanL:
Under NO conditions, allow your daughter to attend their VBS. They will try to get to you through your daughter and who knows what they will say to her. I don’t even allow my children to attend a mainstream Protestant VBS because I don’t want to confuse them. I am teaching my children about Mary and other Catholic beliefs and I don’t want my kids having to argue their faith when they are still a tender age. Kids don’t have the life experiences to know when someone is leading them astray.

(Just my thoughts on the matter).
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SusanL,

The 6 yo attended a full day CoC preschool for a full year when she was 4, and we had nothing but good things to say about it.

This friend found a spot for my younger child at her old CoC preschool last year. We, again, had no problems with it, but since this whole thing has come up, we felt uncomfortable sending her back. We have found a spot for her at a local Methodist Church that came highly recommended by many of our Catholic friends.

Thanks!
 
Hi Stacy. I’m glad that they did a good job before. I was raised Methodist and while I don’t think that they go out of their way to pull us away from the Church, you might find individuals who would make comments to the little ones. (Of course, I’m a little paranoid about it-🙂 )

I think that you are wise about your friend.
 
SusanL,

Thank you so much for your concern and advice! I probably would not let the little one go back to preschool at all (not a Catholic one near our home), but this one has been recommended by other Catholics.

I have never had someone try to convert me before, and this has made me quite leary, too!

😃
 
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GAssisi:
If your friend is a member of the Boston Church of Christ, then do not feel alone. The majority of Protestants believe that sect to be a cult. These people actually believe that their salvation partly depends on how many people they can convert to their religion - which is probably why you sense such urgency in her efforts.

Whatever may be the case, your first duty is to convince her that you are a Christian, all brands of Christianity aside. In my experience, that is all that is needed to get people of such backgrounds to “lay off.” It is likely that this will not be enough if your friend IS from the Boston Church of Christ, as this group believes they are the only true church and shirks ecumenism even with any other Protestant denomination.

I have had people approach me from that sect, and what usually and normally stops them in their tracks is my own knowledge of Scripture, since I am a convert from Baptist Protestantism. Reasoned explanations from Scripture should be enough even for these sectarians to “lay off.” So, after convincing her that Jesus is your Lord and Savior ALONE, be more than willing to go over the Bible with her. Of course, this requires some training in apologetics, as you seem to already be starting to do.

God bless you,
Greg
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I was a part of this ect (Boston Church Of Christ) If you have an questions please do not be afraid to ask. I would prefer to talk e-mail or private message because I have some painful memories of being in this sect. But, I think I could be of help if you want to understand the mindset:)
In Christ -Michael
 
If you consider this person a good friend of yours, it’s important to be honest with her. I agree with telling her that all her questions are leading you deeper into the Catholic faith. You might also want to share with her that you believe you are in the One, True, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. If she still sincerely feels you are being deceived, I suggest that you pray about it together, then say something like:

“Dear Lord, You know that we are sincere in our search for the Truth, which is found in You alone, Lord Jesus. We ask Your blessing on our friendship that we will not be torn apart by our differing beliefs. We ask Your guidance upon us, that if we are being deceived in any manner, You will lead us to the Truth. We ask for patience and perseverance during this difficult time. We place our hope and trust in You, Lord.”
 
<<<I would hate to admit to her, at this point, that for all her trying, I am only being called back to the Catholic Church more strongly. I am reading all kinds of Catholic literature, listening to back shows of Catholic Answers, and loving every second of it.>>>

**Why would you hate to admit that your friend’s efforts have only driven you closer to your Church? The same thing happened to me, in a way. **

The more I attended the church my husband now belongs to (Church of Christ) the more I became convinced ot the truth found in Catholic Church teachings…Funny, but true. The more I heard Evangelical Protestant doctrine (they really don’t believe in “doctrine”, but…) the more I clung to my Catholic beliefs.

You will have to tell your friend that you are Catholic, and not likely to ever be anything else…Continue with your reading, so you will be able to answer her “attacks” with real facts…Be sure to use the Bible as much as possible as your source when debating issues with her. This is something she will both understand and appreciate. Get your self copies of the Beginning Apologetics series by Father Frank Chacon and Jim Burnham. These are very inexpensive, and have wonderful Biblical references to support our beliefs. You can get them at any good Catholic bookstore.
Good luck to you, and God Bless…
 
I sure can sympathize with you. I’m going through the same thing with a family member. I finally had to tell him I could not discuss religion with him anymore, that I would just pray for him. I find the more I study the Catholic faith the stronger my faith becomes. I do read the Bible more, which is a good thing that came out of this. So my advice is to keep studying our faith, stay strong and pray, pray, pray.
 
Having grown up in the Church of Christ, and leaving it to be Reformed Presbyterian, but my grandmother still being CofC, I took interest in your question.

I left obviously for doctrinal reasons, not because I “didn’t like” somebody there or there was a “prettier girl” in the Presbyterian church. And I have to say, just doctrinally speaking, the CofC members who actually know what their church teaches can be quite intimadating.

Here’s some things that haven’t been mentioned that they teach.

Restoration - They believe that sometime really soon after the Apostolic times, the church fell into grave error, and the Protestant Reformation was only a move in the right direction. It wasn’t until like 1812 that Thomas and Alexander Campbell (Former Presbyterians) broke apart from their church and started teaching their own thing. Alexander tried to lure people away from their denominations by debating other preachers and things like that. He ushered in their so called “Christian Restoration”. Anyways, it’s a pretty big group in SE USA, and lightly spread in many areas of the world. Certainly not “catholic” in the worldwide sense I don’t believe.

Scriptures - I guess like most Protestant groups, they reject the idea that any man can infallibly claim to know for certain what Scriptures teach, but they sure are convinced that what they teach is for sure the truth. They don’t claim to be Protestant, but they use a “Protestant” Bible!

Baptism and Lord’s Supper - From what I understand, the Catholic Church doesn’t teach “works salvation” in the way that “Faith Alone” Protestants generally say that Catholics do. However, this “works salvation” plan could be rightly applied to the CofC groups. To do that and show your friend that she is way off on “how can a person be saved” you should be firmly grounded in Baptism and understanding the work of God through Sacraments. Keep in mind, she probably doesn’t believe in Baptismal Regeneration, because she doesn’t believe in Regeneration. They are Armenian to the core, and since they deny Original Sin (they’re neo-Palagians), it would make no sense to believe that we have to be given a new life in Christ, as if we were before hand spiritually dead.
They believe that the Lord’s Supper is more or less a memorial meal. Enough said.

Denominationalism - They believe and teach, albeit to different extents, that their “church” is the true Church of Christ, outside of which no man can be saved. That’s because they believe true preaching is necessary, and since they are the only ones that preach the whole truth of Scripture, then they are the only true church.

St. Francis de Sales would call them a “pretender church”, and St. Jerome has said that “to reduce heresy to it’s origin is to refute it.” (Against the Luciferians)

If you continue to coorespond with your friend on church things, you must do so with a prayerful attitude towards her and her family. Also, be more grounded in Scripture than she is. That should be easy for you, since you’re Catholic. A “Catechism of the Council of Trent” would be very useful to that end, for it would arm you with very strong arguments for the teachings of that milestone Council.

At least make her face the facts about the origins of her church. That can do wonders for a person, because even though they may know (most of them don’t) they may not see the import of having an ecclesiastical tradition that’s only been
around for about 200 years.

Also, you should be, not just to share your faith with your friend, but in order to live obediently to Christ, seeking to be found in Him and living a life that is free of mortal sins and fleeing from venial sins as you notice them creeping into your life. I’ve found that the Lord often renders my witness to be impotent if I’m burdened by sin.

Now, maybe I’ll redigest some of those same apologetical things, seeing that I’m still Protestant!
 
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StacyS:
She told me that she is very excited that I have signed up for the RCIA class. She is hoping it will teach me the “truth” about the Catholic faith. Though, she did say that maybe I would be able to convert her after the class.
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She sounds like a good friend. I am glad that she is happy that you are learning more about your faith. Maybe after the RCIA class you will be more comfortable discussing your beliefs with her. Perhaps she will come to see some truth in your Catholic point of view. I think that when the beliefs of “Bible only” christians are contemplated fully they unravel quickly.

My biggest piece of advice is to keep your daughter out of any situation that could cause her to doubt her Catholic faith. She is too young to be able to deal with anyone who is attempting to convert her.
 
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