Bikinis are immodest - why exactly?

[The_Curt_Jester]

What an interesting thread . . . probably the most interesting part (to me) is that in 5 pages of posts, it’s been all women posting with one (maybe two?) exceptions. So let me give my two cents worth as a man. I make no judgments on what people choose to wear or why. I just give you my thoughts as a man. Take it for what it’s worth.

I thought it was only men who didn’t understand women. This post has shown me that perhaps I was wrong . . . women also don’t understand men. Do men look at women in bathing suits and it triggers sexual thoughts? Yes. And when I say yes, I mean ABSOLUTELY!!! What a man does with this is up to the man. In my younger years, I searched for more. In my return to the Church and to the confessional, I try to distract myself with anything I can. I try to remind myself that yes, she is beautiful . . . a beautiful child of God.

In trying to follow the teachings of the Church, trips to the beach have become VERY difficult for me. Avoiding the near occasion of sin pretty much means avoiding the beach for me.

Do bikinis attract men’s eyes where they shouldn’t be? YES!!! The tops accentuate and say, “Look at these!!” The bottoms, as someone said in an earlier post, are a triangle. YES! Where does that triangle point?

That’s the nature of the suit. And truth be told, it has more to do with the suit and not the body in it. To you women who think you are not the one being looked at in this way because there are younger women with “better” bodies around, think again. The nature of the suit draws attention from men to where it shouldn’t be, regardless of how “unattractive” you may think you are. Your attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder . . . and I can assure you that EVERY SINGLE ONE of you in these bikinis are being looked at in this manner. Without exception.

Does a one piece bathing suit do this for men? Not nearly to the extent a bikini does. Not even close. I was at the beach last weekend and saw a young woman in a one piece suit. It really caught my eye because she was the only one. And I thought, “wow, this is a beautiful girl yet the one piece suit doesn’t draw the same attention from my eye.” I wish more women would start this trend. (And she happened to be Catholic, because I saw her make the sign of the cross!)

To all of you who will say that this is my/other men’s problem, I understand. I try to stay close to the sacraments, particularly confession, and always remember that Jesus said to look at another woman with lust in your eye is to commit adultery. I will continue to try to avert my eyes at the beach. But how many men at the beach will be going to confession afterwards? What do you think the rest are doing with their thoughts?

Something to think about, ladies, the next time you put on your bikini. I hope I don’t offend anyone, just trying to give some truthful, helpful advice. Take it or leave it. At least you know.

I have to agree with a lot of other people in agreeing with this.

My own two cents. While I personally have no desire to go to the beach as I’m not the type of person to enjoy that sort of thing, the complete lack of modesty there is a reason I would avoid it even if I did enjoy swimming.

Maybe some other perspectives from men will deter some women from wearing what amounts to underwear in public.

Not too long ago, I was in a situation to be talking to a girl who was dressed quite immodestly - miniskirt, low-cut halter top. Work-related situation, so it’s not like I could just walk away. Anyway, first impression (being a man) was that she was a very beautiful girl. Some thoughts that came afterwards…

1. She may be beautiful, but she’s entirely unattractive. I mean, really, why would any decent Catholic man want a woman who dresses like that?
2. That girl didn’t have any self-respect to be wearing “clothing” like that in public.
3. She’ probably wondering why I conducted business with her without looking at her for pretty much the whole time.

So, yeah, all that indecent swimwear? You’re attracting all the WRONG thoughts from men and you’re also driving away the decent ones. Think about it for a minute.

Also, I can’t remember the name, but there is a beatified nun (Carmelite) from Spain who, before entering the monastery, went to the beach. She remarked about how immodest the dress was there. When in doubt, look to the Church and the saints. Never look to what’s currently popular in a very immoral culture as a guideline for what is decent to wear.

 

[Onedayatatime]

Over the past 10 years I have spent a lot of time in the middle east. In the last 3 years many months in Saudi Arabia. All the women are covered up there, many right to the eyes. They work in business meetings that way, shopping, dining with friends. After a few months of this, you get used to it, it’s not unusual. Now I am not advocating this in the US, but there is a reason they are covered up. They get respect and there is little chance of attracting the unwanted stares that a bikini will attract. See previous male poster comments.

When out of Saudi for a weekend to one of the adjoining gulf states, I was again greeted by women in western clothes. It invoked a different perspective. Just normal business dress and mid length skirts showed off their figures. I had become accustomed to the Saudi full cover up.

So when you think about this dress style, which is much closer to women of biblical times, and conservative dressers everywhere, what does that say about the bikini.

The bikini shouts I am almost naked, take a look at me. I am a very happily married man of almost 32 years, with four grown kids, but it’s very hard to not “admire” a beautiful woman in a wrong way when there is so much on display.

While we do much to criticise Muslims and how they keep women rights down, remember that from a modesty perspective, how many images of the Virgin Mary show her with her head or body uncovered. Until recently, this was also the pattern for many nuns. (Still are some if you watch EWTN).

Anyway, the bikini is what it is, but ladies should understand the FIRST message it sends to the male parties you meet.

 

[Serap]

Really people??? ANOTHER bikini thread??? :banghead:

I wear swimdresses myself. I used to wear bikinis and realized that they are kinda immodest when you look at them objectively. Plus bikinis are not all that flattering on most women that wear them as well

I went out and bought these gorgeous swimdresses. **Check out this website…www.swimwearplace.com. You will find awesome options to a bikini. They are also more flattering IMO **

 

[Jennifer_J]

This is an older thread, brought back to live for some reason…

 

[Serap]

This is an older thread, brought back to live for some reason…

Oh thanks…forgot to look at the date

 

[silentstar]

Over the past 10 years I have spent a lot of time in the middle east. In the last 3 years many months in Saudi Arabia. All the women are covered up there, many right to the eyes. They work in business meetings that way, shopping, dining with friends. After a few months of this, you get used to it, it’s not unusual. Now I am not advocating this in the US, but there is a reason they are covered up. They get respect and there is little chance of attracting the unwanted stares that a bikini will attract. See previous male poster comments.

When out of Saudi for a weekend to one of the adjoining gulf states, I was again greeted by women in western clothes. It invoked a different perspective. Just normal business dress and mid length skirts showed off their figures. I had become accustomed to the Saudi full cover up.

So when you think about this dress style, which is much closer to women of biblical times, and conservative dressers everywhere, what does that say about the bikini.

The bikini shouts I am almost naked, take a look at me. I am a very happily married man of almost 32 years, with four grown kids, but it’s very hard to not “admire” a beautiful woman in a wrong way when there is so much on display.

While we do much to criticise Muslims and how they keep women rights down, remember that from a modesty perspective, how many images of the Virgin Mary show her with her head or body uncovered. Until recently, this was also the pattern for many nuns. (Still are some if you watch EWTN).

Anyway, the bikini is what it is, but ladies should understand the FIRST message it sends to the male parties you meet.

There’s a big difference between being covered and wearing the clothing that many Muslim women wear. They are in a desert climate wearing hot black clothing that covers them sometimes to the point where they can’t see much. They can also have trouble eating and may need to constantly adjust their clothing esp. the veil so they stay covered. OTOH the Virgin is usually shown wearing modest clothing and a veil that covers her hair but not her face. That is more similar to how Western married women dressed in the middle ages, I believe. Married women usually wore veils but they did not cover the face. There can be serious consequences for Muslim women who go out in public uncovered, or even with clothing that is not worn correctly and falls open accidentally.

I know that not all Muslim covering is that extreme. In Afghanistan women tend to wear blue instead of black which is probably less hot, and some women leave their face uncovered which is a lot easier to deal with.

You ask what that covering says about the bikini. I view it as one extreme to the other. The Saudi women show the extreme in terms of covering, where they often have to adjust their veils and sometimes can’t see clearly, or there is only a space for the eyes (according to what I’ve heard). The bikini is the opposite extreme. To me the lesson is that the ideal is in the middle between the extremes. In some European countries though it is considered normal for men and women to wear very minimal clothing at the beach.

piece of trivia from wikipedia (but I’d heard this before from people who did weapons/defense work):

While two-piece bathing suits had been worn on the beach before, the modern bikini was invented by French engineer Louis Réard in 1946. He named it after Bikini Atoll in the Pacific, the site of the Operation Crossroads nuclear weapon tests in July that year.

Operation Crossroads was a series of nuclear weapon tests conducted by the United States at Bikini Atoll in the summer of 1946. Its purpose was to investigate the effect of nuclear weapons on naval ships. The series consisted of two detonations, each with a yield of 23 kilotons:[1] Able was detonated at an altitude of 520 feet (158 m) on July 1, 1946; Baker was detonated 90 feet (27 m) underwater on July 25, 1946. A third burst, Charlie, planned for 1947, was canceled primarily because of the Navy’s inability to decontaminate the target ships after the Baker test.

The Crossroads tests were the fourth and fifth nuclear explosions conducted by the United States (following the Trinity test and the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki). They were the first of many nuclear tests held in the Marshall Islands, and the first to be publicly announced beforehand and observed by an invited audience, including a large press corps.

The test resulted in the radioactive contamination of all the target ships by the underwater Baker shot. It was the first case of immediate, concentrated local radioactive fallout from a nuclear explosion. (The fallout from an air burst is global, held in the stratosphere for days and widely dispersed.)[2] Chemist Glenn Seaborg, the longest-serving chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission, called Baker “the world’s first nuclear disaster.”

 

[Portrait]

The bikini shouts I am almost naked, take a look at me. I am a very happily married man of almost 32 years, with four grown kids, but it’s very hard to not “admire” a beautiful woman in a wrong way when there is so much on display.

Anyway, the bikini is what it is, but ladies should understand the FIRST message it sends to the male parties you meet.

Dear Onedayatatime,

Cordial greetings and may I say that I entirely agree with the sentiments expressed above.

When I read your remarks I was reminded of the words of St. Paul in his ‘Pastoral Epistle’ to Timothy: “…women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel…as befits women who profess religion” (I Tim. 2: 9). Whilst it is quite true that the apostle is not discouraging the desire on the part of women and girls - a desire put within in them by their Maker - to make themselves look attractive (not seductive), he does state that there will be recoiling from trespassing the boundaries of propriety. In short the respectable and God-fearing Catholic woman will always strive to exercise a proper reserve as regards her vesture.

Moreover, the Catholic woman (or gentleman) is not required to balk at all fashion, only those fashions which happen to be provocative or indecent. Whatever a woman chooses to wear, it must always be expressive of an interior modesty and a sober outlook upon life that points to a mind that is not conformed to this world (cf. Rom. 12: 2) but is fixed on heavenly things (see Col. 3: 2). Now obviously a bikini does not satisfy these strict requirements because it is too revealing and hence indecent for a woman professing religion.

Those men who rightly uphold bible and Church standards respecting modest and decent apparel, are not infrequently accused of blaming women for their own moral failure as regards the custody of their eyes. It is said, so the argument runs, that they are evading their own responsibility to face up to the challenge of evil desire, choosing instead to burden women with all the blame for their own weakness. However, this is just politically correct rhetoric with its usual bias towards women and anger at the slightest whiff of ‘sexism’. In any event, it is not a matter of either/or but of both/and as regards men and women doing their part to minimise the strength and counteract the effect of evil desire. Men most decidedly do have a responsibility as regards the custody of their eyes (see Job 31: 1) and must refrain from looking at a woman lustfully, as our Lord taught (St. Matt. 5: 28). However, a woman who professes religion also has a duty to dress in a seemly fashion so as not to enflame evil desire in men. That is surely an act of charity on her part in addition to being a duty. If she refuses to do this and dons unseemly and provocative garments, then she can hardly protest if she is objectified by men and evaluated as an assemblege of body parts. Immodest attire in both sexes distracts from our personhood with the result that we engage less with personality and increasingly with body parts. Indeed, this disordered emphasis upon body parts has led to the sexualisation and decadence of Western culture in the last fifty-years.

As a consequence of the Fall and concupiscence, men will always be disposed to look on a woman lustfully (hence our Lord’s warning), irrespective of her clothing. Neverthless, modest and seemly clothing does at least help minimise and negate this sad effect of the Fall. Any clothing that voluptuously exposes the person is likely excite evil desire and impure thoughts and is,therefore, to be shunned by the faithful as being indecent and immoral. “Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, para. 2522).

Finally, it is imperative that Catholics think with an authentic Christian mind about this whole issue of modesty in dress and are not influenced by post-Christian mentality.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[silentstar]

Really people??? ANOTHER bikini thread??? :banghead:

I wear swimdresses myself. I used to wear bikinis and realized that they are kinda immodest when you look at them objectively. Plus bikinis are not all that flattering on most women that wear them as well

I went out and bought these gorgeous swimdresses. Check out this website…www.swimwearplace.com. You will find awesome options to a bikini. They are also more flattering IMO

I think Serap did a great service (seriously) posting this information and should I ever lose enough weight to be seen at the beach without jeans and a T-shirt - then I will buy a swimdress. As she said, this has been posted before but another mention can’t hurt. for example I dropped a bowl on my laptop and it crashed and I lost everything including the bookmark for the site fortunately it was under warranty and I got it fixed for free but it’s good to see things like the swimsuit website listed again.

 

[Onedayatatime]

Dear Onedayatatime,

Cordial greetings and may I say that I entirely agree with the sentiments expressed above.

When I read your remarks I was reminded of the words of St. Paul in his ‘Pastoral Epistle’ to Timothy: “…women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel…as befits women who profess religion” (I Tim. 2: 9). Whilst it is quite true that the apostle is not discouraging the desire on the part of women and girls - a desire put within in them by their Maker - to make themselves look attractive (not seductive), he does state that there will be recoiling from trespassing the boundaries of propriety. In short the respectable and God-fearing Catholic woman will always strive to exercise a proper reserve as regards her vesture.

Moreover, the Catholic woman (or gentleman) is not required to balk at all fashion, only those fashions which happen to be provocative or indecent. Whatever a woman chooses to wear, it must always be expressive of an interior modesty and a sober outlook upon life that points to a mind that is not conformed to this world (cf. Rom. 12: 2) but is fixed on heavenly things (see Col. 3: 2). Now obviously a bikini does not satisfy these strict requirements because it is too revealing and hence indecent for a woman professing religion.

Those men who rightly uphold bible and Church standards respecting modest and decent apparel, are not infrequently accused of blaming women for their own moral failure as regards the custody of their eyes. It is said, so the argument runs, that they are evading their own responsibility to face up to the challenge of evil desire, choosing instead to burden women with all the blame for their own weakness. However, this is just politically correct rhetoric with its usual bias towards women and anger at the slightest whiff of ‘sexism’. In any event, it is not a matter of either/or but of both/and as regards men and women doing their part to minimise the strength and counteract the effect of evil desire. Men most decidedly do have a responsibility as regards the custody of their eyes (see Job 31: 1) and must refrain from looking at a woman lustfully, as our Lord taught (St. Matt. 5: 28). However, a woman who professes religion also has a duty to dress in a seemly fashion so as not to enflame evil desire in men. That is surely an act of charity on her part in addition to being a duty. If she refuses to do this and dons unseemly and provocative garments, then she can hardly protest if she is objectified by men and evaluated as an assemblege of body parts. Immodest attire in both sexes distracts from our personhood with the result that we engage less with personality and increasingly with body parts. Indeed, this disordered emphasis upon body parts has led to the sexualisation and decadence of Western culture in the last fifty-years.

As a consequence of the Fall and concupiscence, men will always be disposed to look on a woman lustfully (hence our Lord’s warning), irrespective of her clothing. Neverthless, modest and seemly clothing does at least help minimise and negate this sad effect of the Fall. Any clothing that voluptuously exposes the person is likely excite evil desire and impure thoughts and is,therefore, to be shunned by the faithful as being indecent and immoral. “Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, para. 2522).

Finally, it is imperative that Catholics think with an authentic Christian mind about this whole issue of modesty in dress and are not influenced by post-Christian mentality.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

10-4 on all of these comments. Guidance is required for both women and men in this regard, we have unfortunately dropped our guard to the point that women don’t think showing a lot of flesh is a tease, but the norm; and men are overexposed to it everywhere making it hard to separate pure and reasonable thoughts from “encouraging advertising”.

 

[Portrait]

10-4 on all of these comments. Guidance is required for both women and men in this regard, we have unfortunately dropped our guard to the point that women don’t think showing a lot of flesh is a tease, but the norm; and men are overexposed to it everywhere making it hard to separate pure and reasonable thoughts from “encouraging advertising”.

Dear Onedayatatime,

Cordial greetings and thankyou for the above dear friend.

Yes we have indeed “dropped our guard”. Our lot is cast in days of unprecedented moral and cultural deterioration and it is incumbent upon the faithful to raise a courageous standard against a lowered public opinion. Alas, even within the bosom of Holy Mother Church there is a flagrant disregard of standards once accepted as the norm by almost everyone, the modesty in dress isssue being just one example.

God bless you in your pursuit of holiness.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

PS Have you heard of UK singer, Lena Martell’s 1979 chart hit, One Day at A Time? It has such meaningful lyrics and a memorable tune.

 

[Bporte00]

My husband covers his chest in public, even at the beach. So, we’re holding each other to the same standard.

Mine, too. This is the one I have (it’s a nursing tankini swimsuit):

http://mommygear.com/images/MGSweetSarongNursingTankini.jpg

I know I’m jumping in here way late…BUT I LOVE THIS! I had no idea there were nursing swim suits! I’m going to look into these! This summer will be the first DD is old enough to spend much time outdoors since she was a July baby and I’ve pondered how I could nurse her without taking of an entire side of my top!

 

[heart4home]

I know I’m jumping in here way late…BUT I LOVE THIS! I had no idea there were nursing swim suits! I’m going to look into these! This summer will be the first DD is old enough to spend much time outdoors since she was a July baby and I’ve pondered how I could nurse her without taking of an entire side of my top!

While that is certainly more modest than any bikini, it still seems that when looking at the photo you are automatically drawn to the breasts because the suit just clings to them and still exposes some cleavage. I’m not saying, that we have to run around in sacks, but it just sort of funny that today we consider that modest.

I think a nice t-shirt over the swim suit and a longer skirt cover up, unless you are swimming(or even then if you so choose) is the way to go. As somebody raising both young men and women, I want them to realize that we all play a part and responsibility to keep others from falling into sin.

Let’s face it ladies, most of when we try on a a suit turn around, to check out are own bottoms to see how they look etc. So if we are doing that,we must realize others will be doing the same.

I personally don’t believe that showing any cleavage is appropriate, but I know I’m not in the majority with that thought.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

and men are overexposed to it everywhere making it hard to separate pure and reasonable thoughts from “encouraging advertising”.

Then men should separate and manage their thoughts… and I’m a guy for crying out loud. Saying that “it’s hard” sounds a lot like a childish excuse if you ask me.

 

[Daegus]

There is a reason why this thread died off. Leave it to die off.

Do we really need another bikini thread? No one on this thread will actually listen to those who admonish against the wearing of bikinis so there really isn’t any point to it. People here will just blame men for being perverted and this discussion will run circles around itself.

If you come into a discussion about something with the sole intent of parroting your modernist views verbatim, you are not really engaging in dialect (the search for truth), you are engaging in rhetoric (semantic manipulation).

 

[Serap]

I know I’m jumping in here way late…BUT I LOVE THIS! I had no idea there were nursing swim suits! I’m going to look into these! This summer will be the first DD is old enough to spend much time outdoors since she was a July baby and I’ve pondered how I could nurse her without taking of an entire side of my top!

I love it too. Nice and modest.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

People here will just blame men for being perverted…

Is it just me or do you sound like you have a problem with that?

 

[happymommy]

While that is certainly more modest than any bikini, it still seems that when looking at the photo you are automatically drawn to the breasts because the suit just clings to them and still exposes some cleavage. I’m not saying, that we have to run around in sacks, but it just sort of funny that today we consider that modest.

I think a nice t-shirt over the swim suit and a longer skirt cover up, unless you are swimming(or even then if you so choose) is the way to go. As somebody raising both young men and women, I want them to realize that we all play a part and responsibility to keep others from falling into sin.

Let’s face it ladies, most of when we try on a a suit turn around, to check out are own bottoms to see how they look etc. So if we are doing that,we must realize others will be doing the same.

I personally don’t believe that showing any cleavage is appropriate, but I know I’m not in the majority with that thought.

Why bother getting a suit if you are going to cover it with a t-shirt and another skirt. Seems pointless to me. Just wear shorts and a t-shirt if that’s the look you are going to end up with
Women have breasts! And while I don’t think we need to wear things to draw attention to them or have them hanging out, I also don’t think we need to cover ourselves with sacks to make people forget we have them!

 

[happymommy]

Is it just me or do you sound like you have a problem with that?

There is a problem with it. I think women should be held accountable for how they dress. They can’t dress with half their bodies hanging out and then complain about the attention they get. Yes, men should do their very best to control looking, but it isn’t very fair for the women to flaunt themselves in front of them.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

There is a problem with it. I think women should be held accountable for how they dress. They can’t dress with half their bodies hanging out and then complain about the attention they get. Yes, men should do their very best to control looking, but it isn’t very fair for the women to flaunt themselves in front of them.

Ever heard of “Don’t judge a book by its cover”? (I swear, I must have said this over a hundred times on these threads already.)

Nobody, and I mean nobody, should ever be held accountable for their appearance (at least, on the harsh level the party of modesty seems to do). It makes people think that who they are is only measurable by their physical make up. Self-righteous Pharisees who condemn women just because their bodies look good in a bikini are just as morally shallow as studs who avoid women whose waists are a millimeter over their desired waistline.

The way I see it, standards and norms only exist so that you don’t draw too much attention to yourself.

 

[Daegus]

Is it just me or do you sound like you have a problem with that?

The fact that you’re saying this is quite worrying to me.