Bikinis are immodest - why exactly?

[Luke_K]

Some thoughts from a young guy:

I was a lifeguard for two summers as a teenager, and I saw my share of women in swimsuits. At the beginning of the warm months, I really notice that girls are wearing less and seeing them in revealing swimsuits is more or less “shocking” for a lack of a better term. I know that other guys are like this. But after a while I grow accustomed to it, and seeing the umpteenth girl in a skimpy bikini at the swimming pool every day is not a big deal.

However, even though it stops being such a significant temptation, it still seems undignified to me. That’s not to say that a person’s body is “sinful,” but when I see a teenage girl in a revealing bikini I’m just like “Jeez, save something for your husband!”. Even when I’m in control of my male reaction, I’m frankly not interested in seeing that stuff (significant cleavage and minimal coverage in the bottom piece).

I can totally understand a woman not wanting to wear a full-body suit; wanting to feel the sun, air, and water on her midsection. But please, leave something for your husband to see, instead of every guy at the beach or pool. Even if a guy isn’t lusting, the swimsuits that some women wear makes it hard to see past her figure- to see her as a whole person. It’s like you’re trying to listen to someone talk when there’s a phone ringing right next to you. It’s just distracting.

That being said, I’d also like to point out what Jesus said,

“Here me, all of you, and understand. Nothing that enters one from outside can defile that person; but the things that come out from within are what defile…From within people, from their hearts, come evil thoughts, unchastity…” -Mark 7:14-15,21

But we also need to remember that we live in a fallen world, one in which chastity and sexual control are not valued. Many, many men think it’s normal to lust after women, and they also think that a woman who wears revealing clothing wants men to look at her that way. Men need to be mature and control themselves, and women need to recognize the effect their bodies have on men (even when the man isn’t lusting!). Both sides need to do their parts.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

But we also need to remember that we live in a fallen world, one in which chastity and sexual control are not valued. Many, many men think it’s normal to lust after women, and they also think that a woman who wears revealing clothing wants men to look at her that way. Men need to be mature and control themselves, and women need to recognize the effect their bodies have on men (even when the man isn’t lusting!). Both sides need to do their parts.

True,the way that you dress sends a message. I don’t understand how women can dress the part and then be completely baffled when they are viewed in “that way”. A man walking around in a police uniform would not be surprised in the least if someone called on him to do police work. If you wear the uniform you have to expect the things that come along with the part.

 

[LemonAndLime]

True,the way that you dress sends a message. I don’t understand how women can dress the part and then be completely baffled when they are viewed in “that way”. A man walking around in a police uniform would not be surprised in the least if someone called on him to do police work. If you wear the uniform you have to expect the things that come along with the part.

So, for example, if I walked down the street wearing a mini-skirt I should expect and be partly responsible if I was raped?

Sorry but I don’t buy the whole “men can’t help themselves so women have to cover up” argument. Sure that doesn’t mean it’s okay for women to wear very provocative clothing etc if its done deliberately to seek attention, but I shouldn’t have to be completely covered up all the time just to compensate for someone else’s tendency to sin.

 

[Serap]

So, for example, if I walked down the street wearing a mini-skirt I should expect and be partly responsible if I was raped?

Sorry but I don’t buy the whole “men can’t help themselves so women have to cover up” argument. Sure that doesn’t mean it’s okay for women to wear very provocative clothing etc if its done deliberately to seek attention, but I shouldn’t have to be completely covered up all the time just to compensate for someone else’s tendency to sin.

Who’s talking about rape

It’s a huge leap to notice and lust after a girl dressed in a sexy outfit to raping her

When a woman wears something immodest, she is branding herself whether she likes it or not.

Why do manufacturers put attractive labels on their goods and use words like “delicious”, “never tasted so good”, etc. They are doing it to make their goods look more attractive.

A woman wearing a sexy outfit is branding herself…“I’m sexy”, “I’m single and available”, “I like my breasts…wanna see them?”

A woman wearing a very gorgeous outfit is branding herself, “I’m confident with myself”, “I’m a nice girl with style”, etc.

I can understand why young women may not understand this…but women over 24 years old should 100% get it by then

I was at a wedding with my now husband and there was a girl wearing a very short dress and she had gorgeous long legs. Her dress was extremely immodest and her heals were also very high. My husband could not stop looking at her and it was beginning to make me feel very uncomfortable, especially when I was slow dancing with him and caught him looking at her.

Later we talked about it and he said, “There are two types of girls. Girls like her at the wedding; and nice girls.”

This is the way men think whether we like it or not

 

[Portrait]

Some thoughts from a young guy:

I was a lifeguard for two summers as a teenager, and I saw my share of women in swimsuits. At the beginning of the warm months, I really notice that girls are wearing less and seeing them in revealing swimsuits is more or less “shocking” for a lack of a better term. I know that other guys are like this. But after a while I grow accustomed to it, and seeing the umpteenth girl in a skimpy bikini at the swimming pool every day is not a big deal.

However, even though it stops being such a significant temptation, it still seems undignified to me. That’s not to say that a person’s body is “sinful,” but when I see a teenage girl in a revealing bikini I’m just like “Jeez, save something for your husband!”. Even when I’m in control of my male reaction, I’m frankly not interested in seeing that stuff (significant cleavage and minimal coverage in the bottom piece).

I can totally understand a woman not wanting to wear a full-body suit; wanting to feel the sun, air, and water on her midsection. But please, leave something for your husband to see, instead of every guy at the beach or pool. Even if a guy isn’t lusting, the swimsuits that some women wear makes it hard to see past her figure- to see her as a whole person. It’s like you’re trying to listen to someone talk when there’s a phone ringing right next to you. It’s just distracting.

That being said, I’d also like to point out what Jesus said,

But we also need to remember that we live in a fallen world, one in which chastity and sexual control are not valued. Many, many men think it’s normal to lust after women, and they also think that a woman who wears revealing clothing wants men to look at her that way. Men need to be mature and control themselves, and women need to recognize the effect their bodies have on men (even when the man isn’t lusting!). Both sides need to do their parts.

Dear Luke,

Cordial greetings and thankyou for your sensible contribution above. Full-marks for your level-headedness.

Our lot is cast in exceedingly difficult times and there cannot be any doubt that the spirit of the age has infilitrated the Catholic Church since Vatican II. The Church has, alas, become just too open to the modern world with the result that many of the faithful no longer think with an authentic Christian mind when it comes to issues such as modesty in vesture. How times have changed when you now have Catholic women waxing almost uncontrolledly emotional about having to cover those parts which should remain hidden, when for centuries this was the accepted norm. Virtue is no longer prized, even within Holy Mother Church. How very lamentable!

Much of the blame for this sad state of affairs rests with neo-Catholicism (often conservative in doctrine, which is why it is so apt to deceive) which swims with the stream by imbibing the modern spirit of the world and adopting a ‘Catholicism Lite’. Unfortunately, the “opening up to the world” of Vatican II endangered the Church by fostering a mindset that attempts to embrace as much of the modern spirit as it can get away with. However, whilst the Church has been infected with the godless spirit of the age it has not, and neither will be, totally overcome by it. Happily the Church will survive the difficult times which it is presently passing through, as it has done many times previously - remember our Lord said that “the gates of hades” (that is to say, the activity of any forces hostile to the cause of good) would never prevail against the Church. The assaults of the powers of darkness (in whatever subtle form they manifest themselves) will always be expended in vain. Catholics everwhere who cherish and uphold the true teaching and spirit of Catholicism, should take great comfort from this.

Jolly good point about leaving something for the husband to see. Our decadent age no longer leaves something for the privacy of the bedroom because it has lost the distinction between the public and the private. It has a debased idee fixe with flaunting the body and viewing it as an assemblege of body parts and then calls this liberated thinking to excuse its libidinous appeal. If this is does not evince man’s fallen estate, then I do not know what does.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Portrait]

So, for example, if I walked down the street wearing a mini-skirt I should expect and be partly responsible if I was raped?

Sorry but I don’t buy the whole “men can’t help themselves so women have to cover up” argument. Sure that doesn’t mean it’s okay for women to wear very provocative clothing etc if its done deliberately to seek attention, but I shouldn’t have to be completely covered up all the time just to compensate for someone else’s tendency to sin.

Dear Lemon and Lime,

Cordial greetings and a very warm welcome to CAF. Jolly good to see a fellow UK resident on board.

As I have stated repeatedly in these debates on modesty in attire, it is vitally important that we think with an authentic Christian mind about such an issue. Unfortunately, your line of reasoning fails to reckon with the fact that man is a fallen being who must now contend with the presence of concupiscence or evil desire. As a consequence of this, men will always be disposed to look upon a woman lustfully, irrespective of the clothing she is wearing (or not wearing), hence our Lord’s warning in the Gospel (see St. Matt. 5: 28). It is not merely a question of burdening women with the moral failure of men as regards the custody of their eyes or of men evading their responsibility to engage with the challenge of evil desire. It is not a matter of either/or but rather of both/and with respect to men and women doing their bit to minimise the strength of evil desire and counteract its effects. Undeniably, men do have a responsibility for the custody of their eyes (cf. Job. 31: 1 and confirmed by the teaching of Christ in the Gospel, St. Matt. 5: 28). Clearly, the enflaming of the imagination can be the result of the indiscipline of the eyes. However, any woman who professes religion has a duty, given the fact of evil desire, to so dress as not to cause temptation in the opposite sex and possibly be the occasion of sin. Dressing in a seemly manner with due consideration for others is surely an act of charity, in addition to being a duty, for both men and women.

Of course a woman does not deserve to be subjected to a forcible sexual assault if she dons a min-skirt, but surely it must conceded that she has, by her provocative attire, invited unecessary attention to herself. By wearing such a revealing garment she can hardly protest about being objectified or evaluated as an assemblege of body parts. Immodest vesture in both sexes distracts from our personhood with the result that we engage less with personality and more with body parts. Indeed, it is this disordered fixation with body parts that has led to the sexualisation of Western culture and the prevalent decadence which is now increasingly a sad feature of it, especially in the arts.

Whilst men will always be inclined to be lascivious as far as women are concerned and must do their utmost to keep their libido in check, women must also, especially if they profess religion, don modest apparel and avoid wearing any clothing that voluptuously exposes their bodies, thereby stimulating evil desire and impure thoughts in men. It is a two-way affair, rather than a ‘sexist’ one way one, which seeks to place the onus entirely upon the man’s shoulders.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Portrait]

There is a problem with it. I think women should be held accountable for how they dress. They can’t dress with half their bodies hanging out and then complain about the attention they get. Yes, men should do their very best to control looking, but it isn’t very fair for the women to flaunt themselves in front of them.

Dear happymommy,

Cordial greetings and I agree wholeheartedly with your above comments. You have stated concisely and correctly authentic Christian thinking upon this issue. Jolly well said.

In a previous post I spoke of the inroads of the progressive thinking of Vatican II and how this has influenced the way neo-orthodoxy thinks about issues such as modesty. Over the weekend I was reading a highly respected pre-Vatican II manual of instruction in the Catholic faith entitled, Christ in Us and published by Sheed & Ward (US title, Life in Christ) by James Killgallon and Gerard Weber, in which in answer to the question “What is the virtue of modesty?” they judiciously state:

“The virtue of modesty is the virtue which protects chastity by inclining us to guard our senses, so as not to invite temptation, and to be considerate in our dress and behaviour, so as not to cause temptation in others”.

Here we have an example of authentic Catholic teaching that was commonly held before Vatican II opened its doors to modern thinking and began to assimilate the spirit of the age little by little. Neo-orthodox Catholicism would probably consider this ‘sexist’, simply because
it implies that women should dress in a manner that befits the religion that they profess and saddles them with the responsibility of not being the occasion of temptation in others. How times have changed, for the worse, I fear! In 1959, when Christ in Us was written, it was still accepted that a woman’s attire should be expressive of an interior modesty and a sober outlook upon life that reflected a mind that was not conformed to the godless ways of the world (cf. Rom. 12: 2). Exercising a proper reserve as regards one’s vesture was considered the norm in those more God-fearing times.

As a consequence of misguided teaching by priests and other spiritual advisors, many Catholics have become indifferent to the whole matter of modesty in apparel. This has seriously damaged the credibility of our church in the eyes of the watching world, which, quite rightly, expects better from those who make a profession of godliness. Many, both clergy and laity, must take some share of the responsibility as to why many of our fellow-men have not been encouraged to assume the mantel of our Catholic religion. This is a scandal and we ought to hang our heads in shame because of the reproaches that we bring upon our most holy Faith and, more importantly, upon Almighty God Himself.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax