You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
M
Mickey
Guest
A man standing on the seashore sees the immense expanse of water, but his eye can embrace only a small part and cannot reach its limit. In the same way a man who, through contemplation, is given to see the limitless ocean of Divine glory and to see God Himself with the eyes of his mind, sees God and the infinite vastness of His Glory, though not the whole as it really is, but only as much as is possible for him.If you wish to bring God into the picture, you must prove that he exists
St. Symeon the New Theologian
A
ateista
Guest
Sure. At the time of death the biological activity stops. When the brain’s electro-chemical activity stops, the mind is gone, and the person does not exist any more. The material of human body - the atoms - are still there, but the emerging attributes are lost.Btw, can you tell us what is the difference between the body an hour before death, and the corpse an hour after death.
A crude analogy would be: if you have 3 sticks, where their end points are interconnected, you have a triangle. When they are kicked aside, the physical material still remains, but the triangle does not exist any more.
A
ateista
Guest
This is something that I will never understand. Why cannot God simply forgive whatever transgressions we happen to make? What is this nonsense of “self-sacrifice” as a precondition to forgiveness? When my child disobeyed me, I forgave him, without any conditions. Surely God could do the same.God condescending down to our level, to actually be born of a human woman, in order to save us from our sins, in a completely selfless act of self-giving love, for every person who will ever live.
My skepticism is the reason to ask for evidence. Your answers (not “yours” personally) are the reasons for the cynicism. Maybe you can give me a reasonable answer to the question I posted above.Your skepticism is starting to sound more like cynicism. No longer the robust scepticism we spoke of earlier. My thoughts are with you. Go on vacation.
And I am on constant vacation… being retired.
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
You can find an answer by reading Saint Athanasius’ On the IncarnationThis is something that I will never understand. Why cannot God simply forgive whatever transgressions we happen to make? What is this nonsense of “self-sacrifice” as a precondition to forgiveness? When my child disobeyed me, I forgave him, without any conditions. Surely God could do the same.
A
ateista
Guest
Anything to please you! Though I don’t share your optimism. The current trend shows a decline in religious attitudes.I was going to take umbrage at this comment, but prayed about it instead, and was given a much funnier perspective.
Thank you, ateista, for making us stronger. Thank you for helping assure that there will be Christianity in the future. :V
I
Isa_Almisry
Guest
How observant of you.True. But bees are insects.
Not in the principles of genetics, which you appealed to.A different ballgame.
The evolution enthusiasts are always telling us that we are only a gene or two away from a monkey or whatever.
I
Isa_Almisry
Guest
Crude enough: you don’t explain what is that “triangularity” that animates the living.Sure. At the time of death the biological activity stops. When the brain’s electro-chemical activity stops, the mind is gone, and the person does not exist any more. The material of human body - the atoms - are still there, but the emerging attributes are lost.
A crude analogy would be: if you have 3 sticks, where their end points are interconnected, you have a triangle. When they are kicked aside, the physical material still remains, but the triangle does not exist any more.
I
Isa_Almisry
Guest
Oh? Have they informed Eurabia?Anything to please you! Though I don’t share your optimism. The current trend shows a decline in religious attitudes.
D
DustinM
Guest
He’s not anti-Jesus, that’s for sure. He’s anti “most Christians.”
“Jesus, as a philosopher is wonderful. There’s no greater role model, in my view, than Jesus Christ. It’s just a shame that most of the people who follow him and call themselves Christians act nothing like him.” Bill Maher
Also, as others have probably mentioned, he’s not an atheist. He views their sureness that God doesn’t exist as bad as well.
I’m not saying he’s a great guy or anything, but I think he’s agnostic, and he himself wants the answers to his rhetorical questions. I don’t view him as someone who is spreading dissonance against Christians just for fun (or worse as some Devil-agent).
Sometimes, I believe he steps over the line, and sometimes he exaggerates to the point where it becomes a lie. I’m not a fan. But I think he’s actually very confused as to why Christians like us believe what we do. So he asks hard questions too.
“Jesus, as a philosopher is wonderful. There’s no greater role model, in my view, than Jesus Christ. It’s just a shame that most of the people who follow him and call themselves Christians act nothing like him.” Bill Maher
Also, as others have probably mentioned, he’s not an atheist. He views their sureness that God doesn’t exist as bad as well.
I’m not saying he’s a great guy or anything, but I think he’s agnostic, and he himself wants the answers to his rhetorical questions. I don’t view him as someone who is spreading dissonance against Christians just for fun (or worse as some Devil-agent).
Sometimes, I believe he steps over the line, and sometimes he exaggerates to the point where it becomes a lie. I’m not a fan. But I think he’s actually very confused as to why Christians like us believe what we do. So he asks hard questions too.
A
ateista
Guest
Unfortunately I am not keen on reading pages and pages of theological dissertation. I few rational explanatory words would be much more appreciated.You can find an answer by reading Saint Athanasius’ On the Incarnation
A
ateista
Guest
There are no “generic” principles. Insects and mammals are vastly different.Not in the principles of genetics, which you appealed to.
About 2-3% different from the great apes. That is still a lot of genes.The evolution enthusiasts are always telling us that we are only a gene or two away from a monkey or whatever.
M
Mickey
Guest
God is love.A few rational explanatory words would be much more appreciated.
A
ateista
Guest
No, and I did not intend to. It was just an example of emergent attributes.Crude enough: you don’t explain what is that “triangularity” that animates the living.
“Life” is defined as: “complex responses to complex stimuli” - nothing less, nothing more. The difference between living and inanimate matter is more of a personal preference, than an objective distinction. Some biologists (who are the arbiters of “living” creatures) consider viruses “alive”, while some others do not.
Let me contend for the sake of argument that a piece of rock in my garden is alive. It eats, procreates, conducts long philosophical discussions with its peers. Unfortunately for us, it lives on a very different time-scale. One second of its life equals 100 years of our lives. So there is no way to decide - unless many millions of human generations would sacrifice their whole life observing this rock move. So prove to me that it is NOT alive.
A
ateista
Guest
Islam is spreading in some parts of the world. Christianity is on the decline - generally. In Europe the churches are near empty.Oh? Have they informed Eurabia?
A
ateista
Guest
Did you read the sequence of posts you reply to? I asked why could not God simply forgive our “sins”. Why did he resort to this elaborate “self-sacrifice”?God is love.
C
cranster
Guest
21 gramsBtw, can you tell us what is the difference between the body an hour before death, and the corpse an hour after death.
C
cranster
Guest
That’s an interesting theory but it doesn’t account for one thing. Jesus has this habit of touching peoples lives like He did with mine. Out of the blue one day He appeared and I’m not entirely sure it was physical, but he asked me one question which was “Will you let me love you?” to which I responded “yes”. My entire being was flooded with love, joy, peace, forgiveness and bliss. It was an unsolicited singular event in my life that I have not been able to reproduce with drugs or thinking about it or desiring it to happen again.If only those stupid Romans did not persecute the early Christians, there would be no Christianity today. It is always dumb to persecute deviant ideologies. It only makes them stronger.
Was it a psychotic break? perhaps… or it was real? I wasn’t expecting it nor did I ask for it, it just happened and it was a life changing experience.
Just for the record I work on a psych unit and have been around a lot of delusional patients that have had psychotic breaks, and the ones that I have seen normally are filled with paranoia where voices tell them to harm themselves or others or both. They normally have to be physically taken down and restrained because they become violent or totally non compliant. That is normal in a psychotic break. The voices they hear usually persist, but can be lessened with meds but usually not eliminated.They normally don’t get admitted to the hospital because they’ve had an experience of astounding well being which is what I experienced. My experience lasted about 20 minutes. There isn’t an argument an atheist can make that can negate that experience.
I heard Maher mention horace, and I’ve thought about that a bit. The only place horace, osiris, mithra and others exist today is in textbooks and the arguments of atheists. Jesus on the other hand exists in peoples lives in a transformational way of love and peace. People really are touched by Him and have their lives transformed by Him. That’s why there are churches all over the world today for Jesus Christ and no churches or very few for the others. The roman persecution isn’t the only thing that accounts for the rise of Christianity. Lives touched and transformed are another reason for the rise of Christianity, and as far as I’m concerned the primary reason Christianity survived the roman persecution.
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Mickey has answered well, God is Love. If you want that explained, you need to read the work. It just can’t be boiled down without making some gross over-simplifications and glossing over quite a bit.Unfortunately I am not keen on reading pages and pages of theological dissertation. I few rational explanatory words would be much more appreciated.
A
ateista
Guest
I am not against such an experience. But it did not happen.That’s an interesting theory but it doesn’t account for one thing. Jesus has this habit of touching peoples lives like He did with mine. Out of the blue one day He appeared and I’m not entirely sure it was physical, but he asked me one question which was “Will you let me love you?” to which I responded “yes”. My entire being was flooded with love, joy, peace, forgiveness and bliss. It was an unsolicited singular event in my life that I have not been able to reproduce with drugs or thinking about it or desiring it to happen again.
If you say so. At least you allow that maybe it was some psychological “disturbance”.Was it a psychotic break? perhaps… or it was real? I wasn’t expecting it nor did I ask for it, it just happened and it was a life changing experience.
I would not want to negate it. I am simply skeptical about it.Just for the record I work on a psych unit and have been around a lot of delusional patients that have had psychotic breaks, and the ones that I have seen normally are filled with paranoia where voices tell them to harm themselves or others or both. They normally have to be physically taken down and restrained because they become violent or totally non compliant. That is normal in a psychotic break. The voices they hear usually persist, but can be lessened with meds but usually not eliminated.They normally don’t get admitted to the hospital because they’ve had an experience of astounding well being which is what I experienced. My experience lasted about 20 minutes. There isn’t an argument an atheist can make that can negate that experience.
There are many mosques, too. Islam spreads faster than Chrsitianity. As a matter of fact, the RCC complains about the decline of Catholics, and a very large percentage of the Catholics are Cafeteria Catholics. True, there is an upsurge in certain Protestant denominations, mostly the charismatic ones. These statistics do not prove anything.I heard Maher mention horace, and I’ve thought about that a bit. The only place horace, osiris, mithra and others exist today is in textbooks and the arguments of atheists. Jesus on the other hand exists in peoples lives in a transformational way of love and peace. People really are touched by Him and have their lives transformed by Him. That’s why there are churches all over the world today for Jesus Christ and no churches or very few for the others.
I read you loud and clear.The roman persecution isn’t the only thing that accounts for the rise of Christianity. Lives touched and transformed are another reason for the rise of Christianity, and as far as I’m concerned the primary reason Christianity survived the roman persecution.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.