Billy Joel: Only the Good Die Young

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This is the song More Than Words by Extreme. I think the music and melody are beautiful - I love the harmony and the acoustic guitars BUT the words have always bugged me. Might be OK for a married couple, but it sounds like boyfriend trying to convince girlfriend to sleep with him or he’ll break up with her … especially where it says “…then you couldn’t make things new just by saying I Love You…”

Saying I love you
Is not the words I want to hear from you
Its not that I want you
Not to say, but if you only knew
How easy it would be to show me how you feel
More than words is all you have to do to make it real
Then you wouldnt have to say that you love me
Cos Id already know

What would you do if my heart was torn in two
More than words to show you feel
That your love for me is real
What would you say if I took those words away
Then you couldnt make things new
Just by saying I love you

More than words

Now Ive tried to talk to you and make you understand
All you have to do is close your eyes
And just reach out your hands and touch me
Hold me close dont ever let me go
More than words is all I ever needed you to show
Then you wouldnt have to say that you love me
Cos Id already know

What would you do if my heart was torn in two
More than words to show you feel
That your love for me is real
What would you say if I took those words away
Then you couldnt make things new
Just by saying I love you

More than words
 
In my senior year at all girls Catholic High School, we did want to use the song-Only the Good Die Young as the class song. The nuns vetoed the idea.
 
The point of “Only the Good Die Young” is clearly stated in the last lines:

You say your mother told you all that I could give you was a reputation
She never cared for me
But did she ever say a prayer for me?

It’s about the apparent hypocrisy among Christians.
Sex was considered “bad”, not something to be talked about in a healthy manner.
People “didn’t like” people who were different than they were - especially those who come “from the wrong side of the tracks”. Even though they didn’t really know the person they didn’t like.

But the last line is the real kicker - Did she ever say a prayer for me?
The answer, at the time the song was written, was most definitely “No”.

I like this song a great deal because it reminds me not to make assumptions just because I’m Catholic and someone else is not. God loves them just as much as He loves me.
I may not care for someone - but I must understand that that in itself does not make them a bad person.

Most of all, I need to pray for all God’s creatures, not just those who fit in with my way of thinking. Maybe especially for those who don’t fit.

Thank you Billy Joel for the message.

Go with Love, Go with God
 
DarkNight said:
The point of “Only the Good Die Young” is clearly stated in the last lines:

You say your mother told you all that I could give you was a reputation
She never cared for me
But did she ever say a prayer for me?

It’s about the apparent hypocrisy among Christians.
Sex was considered “bad”, not something to be talked about in a healthy manner.
People “didn’t like” people who were different than they were - especially those who come “from the wrong side of the tracks”. Even though they didn’t really know the person they didn’t like.

But the last line is the real kicker - Did she ever say a prayer for me?
The answer, at the time the song was written, was most definitely “No”.

I like this song a great deal because it reminds me not to make assumptions just because I’m Catholic and someone else is not. God loves them just as much as He loves me.
I may not care for someone - but I must understand that that in itself does not make them a bad person.

Most of all, I need to pray for all God’s creatures, not just those who fit in with my way of thinking. Maybe especially for those who don’t fit.

Thank you Billy Joel for the message.

Go with Love, Go with God
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I think it’s apparent that he thinks that if the mother rejects him in order to protect her daughter, (because lets face it, the mother’s instincts are right on target) that she can’t possibly have a concern for him and his soul, her rejection has to be an attack on his worth as a person, and of course, this is all in his mind. In reality, he has no idea about whether she prays for him, and by keeping him away from her daughter, she is not only saving the daughter from an immoral act, but the boy also, at least in the short term.

He has a martyr complex at the very least, but more than likely is just using anything he can think of to get his way with what he thinks is a very gullible girl.

I have never been able to decide which person the song really thinks is the most noble. I’d say with the emphasis and good time feeling melody pushing the chorus lyrics, “Only the good die young”, that the person the song is ultimately rooting for is the boy.😦

But when I was young I didn’t think about any of this, I just sang along oblivious to what the message was, as is the case with most young people and their music.🤷
 
These lyrics made me sick to my stomach even as a teenage atheist/ Buddhist/ Hindu/ Pagan. (I used to try out religions until I found the Truth in Christ). So he’d rather laugh with the sinners? What does that mean? That big-eyed smirking tone sounded to me like a privileged, very sheltered, self-impressed pseudo-delinquent looking to use someone else to bolster his image as a bad boy when he has obviously never been out where it’s really dirty, where it’s the sinners and the people they sin against who do the crying. Even then I had seen plenty of crying where the sins were thick on the ground. So he thinks she’s missing out by looking at stained glass and hanging with her folks at home? Really? And she could be having a great time being groped by a stuck-up boy, walking alone to the VD clinic, counting her change in the dark for a pregnancy test, sticking abortion clinic pamphlets in her purse on the way home from school, spending half the school day in the nurse’s office being sick, reading BC packages in the drugstore and fearing the side effects, instead of “wasting” her time in an atmosphere of love and beauty where she is? It’s really that important for HER that HE get to look all grown-up and rebellious, is it? It amazed me that guys like that even tried. Without a benefit for her, why would it be “fate” for her to give in?
 
strngrnrth said:
These lyrics made me sick to my stomach even as a teenage atheist/ Buddhist/ Hindu/ Pagan. (I used to try out religions until I found the Truth in Christ). So he’d rather laugh with the sinners? What does that mean? That big-eyed smirking tone sounded to me like a privileged, very sheltered, self-impressed pseudo-delinquent looking to use someone else to bolster his image as a bad boy when he has obviously never been out where it’s really dirty, where it’s the sinners and the people they sin against who do the crying. Even then I had seen plenty of crying where the sins were thick on the ground. So he thinks she’s missing out by looking at stained glass and hanging with her folks at home? Really? And she could be having a great time being groped by a stuck-up boy, walking alone to the VD clinic, counting her change in the dark for a pregnancy test, sticking abortion clinic pamphlets in her purse on the way home from school, spending half the school day in the nurse’s office being sick, reading BC packages in the drugstore and fearing the side effects, instead of “wasting” her time in an atmosphere of love and beauty where she is? It’s really that important for HER that HE get to look all grown-up and rebellious, is it? It amazed me that guys like that even tried. Without a benefit for her, why would it be “fate” for her to give in?
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And you know the really sad part? Girls have been falling for this bait from the beginning of time and probably will never stop. Raging hormones and a lack of brains and moral courage will ruin many lives, regardless of the religious upbringing. 😦
 
bdub said:
I have always felt this song was less about the Church and more about a man trying to convince a lady to take the next step. But the man is still trying to convince her at the end of the song. I say the church won this battle, and the man had to wait for another day.

There is also two other ode’s to women on the same album as only the good … Just the Way You Are is an expression of pure and simple love, She Always a Women to Me expresses the strength of a woman.

Only the Good… reminds me of all the guys that used to hang around our house to visit my sister. They all left a bit sad.
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Just my thinking. Good job BDub
 
As Catholics is it a sin to sing along to this song? I’m a big Billy Joel fan and i caught myself siniging it and stated to worry I had sinned, especially the line that says:

"And they say there’s a Heaven,And those who will wait.And some say it’s better, But I say it ain’t!I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints.

I obviously don’t believe what these lyrics say(I believe heaven is better or course) but is thinking them in your head or singing them out loud a mortal sin?

I know I’m being way too scrupulous about this and that it’s only a venial sin, but I just wanted to run it by some others to be sure.

Thanks all!
 
It’s a catchy tune so it’s hard not to have it get stuck in your head. But I’ve never liked the message that Catholic girls are naive, sheltered, puritanical, etc. - and, I think, a snarky tone towards the Church as a whole - does he really want to be prayed for or just get in one last dig? 🤷 Isn’t Billy a fallen-away Catholic? We should be praying for him! :gopray:

Virginia, don’t fall for his tired old line! 😛
 
its on our playlist. everyone in the audience knows the words, sings along. no big deal for me. people who are going to extend their rabbit ears looking to be offended can do better than this. and it is, truly, a common perception of Catholic girls.

now, if you really want to be offended both by content and style of play, you should hear our jazz version of Sympathy for the Devil.
 
eh, its just a song, I like Billy Joel but this isn’t one of my favorites but that has nothing to do with the lyrics.
 
Apologista said:
It’s a catchy tune so it’s hard not to have it get stuck in your head. But I’ve never liked the message that Catholic girls are naive, sheltered, puritanical, etc. - and, I think, a snarky tone towards the Church as a whole - does he really want to be prayed for or just get in one last dig? 🤷 Isn’t Billy a fallen-away Catholic? We should be praying for him! :gopray:

Virginia, don’t fall for his tired old line! 😛
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My parents were both from Jewish families. I was not brought up Jewish in any religious way. My circumcision was as Jewish as they got. I used to go to Roman Catholic church with my friends, and when I was 11, I got baptized in a Church of Christ in Hicksville. I’m a cultural Jew. I like the Lower East Side humor, the food. I think the Yiddish language is terrifically expressive. Does that make me a complete Jew or a partial Jew? I’m not really sure
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margya said:
In my senior year at all girls Catholic High School, we did want to use the song-Only the Good Die Young as the class song. The nuns vetoed the idea.
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I was a sophomore in a co-ed Catholic high school when this song was a candidate for the theme of our cotillion (well, that’s a stretch - it was just another dance in the gym). All the guys were gung-ho for it. There’s a shocker. :rolleyes: None of the teachers, lay or religious vetoed it - we girls were insulted enough to reject it. I don’t know that every one of us objected on purely religious or moral grounds, but generally we resented the boys using the song to express the typical oversexed adolescent male rant about girls who didn’t find them irresistible.

As for the song itself, it’s not one of Billy Joel’s best efforts in my opinion but I was never a major fan of his. It’s very garden-variety 50s style rock & roll; the tempo is too slow and the overall execution is too tame for what it purports to be. To me it foreshadowed the substandard, commercialized stuff he started cranking out after “The Stranger”.

I still find the lyrics juvenile & rather insulting but that’s just my opinion.
 
singer878 said:
As Catholics is it a sin to sing along to this song?

I know I’m being way too scrupulous about this and that it’s only a venial sin, but I just wanted to run it by some others to be sure.
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I wouldn’t worry about it. An intelligent Catholic adult with a well-formed conscience can take in potentially objectionable entertainment without being influenced by it.

Besides, it’s just a silly pop song. 😉
 
I read part of an old interview with Billy Joel where he pointed out, while trying to defend the song, that in the end, the girl doesn’t give in. He said that for all the protest against the song when it came out, everyone missed that final point. I don’t listen to as much Billy Joel as I used to, but I still enjoy this song from time to time.
 
JeannetteCML said:
This is a kind of funny post because this song is so old. But it always grates on me when I pass over it while sifting through stations – or happen to stop on it. :eek: (And just when I was thinking of posting on it, it popped up on my radio!) I think what gets to me about it is not only that it’s so backward but that there’s a tiny bit of wisdom in it, too. In any case, if anyone is up for joining me, I’m looking forward to putting this song in it’s place. 😃 (Sorry, it’s not as powerful in the written lyrical form.)

Come out Virginia, don’t let me me wait
You Catholic girls start much too late
But sooner or later it comes down to fate
I might as well be the one
They showed you a statue and told you to pray
They built you a temple and locked you away
But they never told you the price that you pay
For things that you might have done…
Only the good die young

You might have heard I run with a dangerous crowd
We ain’t too pretty we ain’t too proud
We might be laughing a bit too loud
But that never hurt no one
Come on Virginia show me a sign
Send up a signal I’ll throw you the line
The stained-glass curtain you’re hiding behind
Never lets in the sun
And only the good die young

You got a nice white dress and a party on your confirmation
You got a brand new soul
And a cross of gold
But Virginia they didn’t give you quite enough information
You didn’t count on me
When you we’re counting on your rosary

They say there’s a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it’s better but I say it ain’t
I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
Sinners are much more fun…
And only the good die young

You say your mother told you all that I could give you was a reputation
She never cared for me
But did she ever say a prayer for me?

For starters I’m going to be really picky and quote the Catechism:

1856 …But when the sinner’s will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or **immoderate laughter **and the like, such sins are venial.

1863 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul’s progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin.

1472 …On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory…

I can go on… Anybody else? How about sinners being more fun? Don’t they suffer by making themselves wretched?
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That is beyond funny, because That song was just on today and I signed up on here to ask if people thought if they think it would be appropriate for our Wedding reception, as I’m Catholic and my fiancée just became Catholic. I have some very serious aunts and my priest will be at the reception as well. I have a sense of humor it doesn’t offend me, but I know some take songs a little more seriously. You have to remember most of these entertainers are idiots and take it with a grain of salt.
 
LilyM said:
It’s not about Catholicism or Christianity at all. It’s about a young guy who wants the wrong sort of good time and has decided that religion, since it stands in the way, must be wrong.
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Exactly. Too many here are giving Billy Joel too much credit. It only shows that Billy, who is not Catholic, (like so many out there) has a completely misguided idea of what it means to be a Catholic. The lyric about “*I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints” *harkens back to the old comment that one prefers hell for the company but heaven for the climate. It isn’t meant to be a religious declaration. If one steps back and really looks at the lyrics, you’ll see that there isn’t anything truly offensive about them except for the fact that the guy has it all wrong.
 
Gordon_Sims said:
I read part of an old interview with Billy Joel where he pointed out, while trying to defend the song, that in the end, the girl doesn’t give in. He said that for all the protest against the song when it came out, everyone missed that final point. I don’t listen to as much Billy Joel as I used to, but I still enjoy this song from time to time.
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Unless it’s made clear otherwise, any artistic piece - song, story, poem, play, etc. - has an implied “speaker” or narrator persona. This persona can be fairly autobiographical in terms of being based on the artist/composer/poet/writer’s experiences, but there’s still usually a little artistic distance. In other words, Billy Joel was writing a character and the character was giving his point of view.

But not every listener is going to pick up on what he’s saying about Virginia - those who don’t know this about creative writing may interpret the song in a way sympathetic to the poor young hormonal teen boy who “ain’t gettin’ any” and be taken by the YOLO propaganda message. They’ll miss any “subtext” entirely. Even I, brilliant and educated as I am 😃 didn’t get this out of the song!

I’d love to see a Catholic female singer write a song from a smart, savvy Virginia’s point of view as to why she saw through the male character’s weak arguments! 😛 And record it and put it up on YouTube!
 
3DOCTORS said:
Unless it’s made clear otherwise, any artistic piece - song, story, poem, play, etc. - has an implied “speaker” or narrator persona. This persona can be fairly autobiographical in terms of being based on the artist/composer/poet/writer’s experiences, but there’s still usually a little artistic distance. In other words, Billy Joel was writing a character and the character was giving his point of view.

But not every listener is going to pick up on what he’s saying about Virginia - those who don’t know this about creative writing may interpret the song in a way sympathetic to the poor young hormonal teen boy who “ain’t gettin’ any” and be taken by the YOLO propaganda message. They’ll miss any “subtext” entirely. Even I, brilliant and educated as I am 😃 didn’t get this out of the song!

I’d love to see a Catholic female singer write a song from a smart, savvy Virginia’s point of view as to why she saw through the male character’s weak arguments! 😛 And record it and put it up on YouTube!
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Well there are plenty of songs about women who won’t put up with hormonal males. One good one has already been mentioned in an earlier post.

Off the top of my head I would say something like Shania Twain’s ‘if you’re not in it for love (I’m outta here)’ is also a good counterpoint.
 
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