Binding and Loosening - Disciplinary teaching and the Pontiff

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DeepDeepTrouble3

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I realize that very few people here will be able to answer this question in the academic way I hope it could be. I am wondering, everyone, after Pope Saint John Paul II and his comments regarding salvation including all men, has the doctrine been loosened to the point of my being able to process a belief in the apokatastasis? Please post if you are familiar with the comments of Pope Saint John Paul II the Great.

Thank you!
 
The reason I said disciplinary teaching in the title is because I am wondering if it is possible for the fact that the damned be in hell for eternity could be a disciplinary teaching that has been loosened by the keys of Saint Peter by Pope Saint John Paul II.
 
No.

Christ’s sacrifice was for everyone, but it depends on how much you take of it.
It was for everyone. That doesn’t mean everyone is saved.
(Though I’m uncertain as to what you mean of Pope St John Paul II).
 
That’s why I kind of want to limit this thread to those who are already aware of what Pope Saint John Paul II said regarding this. He made statements that seem to say that all men are saved. They may be defensible while still maintaining the seperation of Heaven and Hell for eternity, but it doesn’t seem that way from his comments.
 
But what specifically are you speaking about? JP II said a lot of things. Just the name of the Encyclical would do
 
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They are well known quotes for those who are paying attention to modern Catholic controversy, and there are many of them, so please limit the thread to those who are familiar with these statements.
 
Francis recently said that all of his comments contain pastoral content. I believe that they do and I trust that. I think JPII was probably the same way.
 
I’ve read ALL of his Encyclicals and Apostolic Exhortations, but don’t recall now, which one you are referencing, as my readings was more than 15 years ago.

Still, I suspect that the teaching dealt is some way with the End Times

Kindly provide more information as the FORUM is not a Mystery site.

God Bless you

Partick
 
“EliRotello2d
The reason I said disciplinary teaching in the title is because I am wondering if it is possible for the fact that the damned be in hell for eternity could be a disciplinary teaching that has been loosened by the keys of Saint Peter by Pope Saint John Paul II.”

The teaching that those in Hell are there forever is NOT disciplinary. It is DOGMA (an infallible teaching which can NEVER be changed).
 
http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-p...hf_jp-ii_enc_07121990_redemptoris-missio.html

CHAPTER I - JESUS CHRIST, THE ONLY SAVIOR
  1. In my first encyclical, in which I set forth the program of my Pontificate, I said that "the Church’s fundamental function in every age, and particularly in ours, is to direct man’s gaze, to point the awareness and experience of the whole of humanity toward the mystery of Christ."4
The Church’s universal mission is born of faith in Jesus Christ, as is stated in our Trinitarian profession of faith: "I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father… For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man."5 The redemption event brings salvation to all, "for each one is included in the mystery of the redemption and with each one Christ has united himself forever through this mystery."6 It is only in faith that the Church’s mission can be understood and only in faith that it finds its basis.

Nevertheless, also as a result of the changes which have taken place in modern times and the spread of new theological ideas, some people wonder: Is missionary work among non-Christians still relevant? Has it not been replaced by inter-religious dialogue? Is not human development an adequate goal of the Church’s mission? Does not respect for conscience and for freedom exclude all efforts at conversion? Is it not possible to attain salvation in any religion? Why then should there be missionary activity?
 
“No one comes to the Father, but by me” (Jn 14:6)
  1. If we go back to the beginnings of the Church, we find a clear affirmation that Christ is the one Savior of all, the only one able to reveal God and lead to God. In reply to the Jewish religious authorities who question the apostles about the healing of the lame man, Peter says: “By the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by him this man is standing before you well… And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:10, 12). This statement, which was made to the Sanhedrin, has a universal value, since for all people-Jews and Gentiles alike - salvation can only come from Jesus Christ.
The universality of this salvation in Christ is asserted throughout the New Testament. St. Paul acknowledges the risen Christ as the Lord. He writes: “Although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth - as indeed there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords’ - yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist” (1 Cor 8:5-6). One God and one Lord are asserted by way of contrast to the multitude of “gods” and “lords” commonly accepted. Paul reacts against the polytheism of the religious environment of his time and emphasizes what is characteristic of the Christian faith: belief in one God and in one Lord sent by God.
 
In the Gospel of St. John, this salvific universality of Christ embraces all the aspects of his mission of grace, truth and revelation: the Word is “the true light that enlightens every man” (Jn 1:9). And again, “no one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known” (Jn 1:18; cf. Mt 11:27). God’s revelation becomes definitive and complete through his only-begotten Son: “In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom he also created the world” (Heb 1:1-2; cf. Jn 14:6). In this definitive Word of his revelation, God has made himself known in the fullest possible way. He has revealed to mankind who he is. This definitive self-revelation of God is the fundamental reason why the Church is missionary by her very nature. She cannot do other than proclaim the Gospel, that is, the fullness of the truth which God has enabled us to know about himself.
 
Christ is the one mediator between God and mankind: “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth” (1 Tm 2:5-7; cf. Heb 4:14-16). No one, therefore, can enter into communion with God except through Christ, by the working of the Holy Spirit. Christ’s one, universal mediation, far from being an obstacle on the journey toward God, is the way established by God himself, a fact of which Christ is fully aware. Although participated forms of mediation of different kinds and degrees are not excluded, they acquire meaning and value only from Christ’s own mediation, and they cannot be understood as parallel or complementary to his.
  1. To introduce any sort of separation between the Word and Jesus Christ is contrary to the Christian faith. St. John clearly states that the Word, who “was in the beginning with God,” is the very one who “became flesh” (Jn 1:2, 14). Jesus is the Incarnate Word-a single and indivisible person. One cannot separate Jesus from the Christ or speak of a “Jesus of history” who would differ from the “Christ of faith.” The Church acknowledges and confesses Jesus as “the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Mt 16:16): Christ is none other than Jesus of Nazareth: he is the Word of God made man for the salvation of all. In Christ “the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily” (Col 2:9) and “from his fullness have we all received” (Jn 1:16). The “only Son, who is the bosom of the Father” (Jn 1:18) is “the beloved Son, in whom we have redemption… For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his Cross” (Col 1:13-14, 19-20). It is precisely this uniqueness of Christ which gives him an absolute and universal significance, whereby, while belonging to history, he remains history’s center and goal:7 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end” (Rv 22:13).
Thus, although it is legitimate and helpful to consider the various aspects of the mystery of Christ, we must never lose sight of its unity. In the process of discovering and appreciating the manifold gifts-especially the spiritual treasures-that God has bestowed on every people, we cannot separate those gifts from Jesus Christ, who is at the center of God’s plan of salvation. Just as “by his incarnation the Son of God united himself in some sense with every human being,” so too "we are obliged to hold that the Holy Spirit offers everyone the possibility of sharing in the Paschal Mystery in a manner known to God."8 God’s plan is “to unite all things in Christ, things in heaven and things on earth” (Eph 1:10).
 
Pope John Paul ll the Great said though salvation is for all and they may be many ways ,but for us Christians Jesus it the only way.he said it with prudence.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you know me, you will know[d] my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”

Matthew 2028 Even as the Son of man is not come to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a redemption for many.

God wants all men to be saved

1 Timothy 2:3-7 “…God our Saviour, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men – the testimony given in its proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle – I am telling the truth, I am not lying – and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.”
 
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Catholics must also understand that few are saved.
Our Lord Jesus Christ revealed that the road to Heaven is straight and narrow and few find it, while the road to Hell is wide and taken by most (Mt. 7:13).

Matthew 7:13- “Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life, and few there are that find it!”

Luke 13:24- “Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able.”

Scripture also teaches that almost the entire world lies in darkness, so much so that Satan is even called the “prince” (John 12:31) and “god” (2 Cor. 4:3) of this world.

1 John 5:19- “We know that we are of God, and the whole world is seated in wickedness.”

It’s the sad fact of history that most people in the world are of bad will and don’t want the truth. That’s why almost the whole world lies in darkness and on the road to perdition. This has been the case since the beginning. It was the case when only eight souls (Noe and his family) escaped God’s wrath in the deluge that covered the entire earth, and when the Israelites rejected God’s law and fell into idolatry over and over again.

The truth is that for those who truly believe in God, accept His full truth (the Catholic Faith), don’t compromise it and want to do the right thing, it’s not hard to reach Heaven. As Christ said, “My yoke is sweet and My burden light” (Mt. 11:30). The reason that so few make it is not because it’s that hard, but because they refuse to believe the simple and easy things He has revealed, and do the simple and easy things He has commanded. Those who do what God wants and believe what He says realize that they are much happier than they were before.

But the sad truth is that almost all people are of bad will. This is why the saints and Doctors of the Church have consistently taught only a very small percentage of people are saved. In fact, the saints and Doctors of the Church, even during the ages of faith, taught that most adult Catholics are lost.
 
Saint Leonard of Port Maurice [A.D. 1676-1751], on the fewness of the saved: “After consulting all the theologians and making a diligent study of the matter, he [Suarez] wrote, ‘The most common sentiment which is held is that, among Christians [Catholics], there are more damned souls than predestined souls.’ Add the authority of the Greek and Latin Fathers to that of the theologians, and you will find that almost all of them say the same thing. This is the sentiment of Saint Theodore, Saint Basil, Saint Ephrem, Saint John Chrysostom. What is more, according to Baronius it was a common opinion among the Greek Fathers that this truth was expressly revealed to Saint Simeon Stylites and that after this revelation, it was to secure his salvation that he decided to live standing on top of a pillar for forty years, exposed to the weather, a model of penance and holiness for everyone. Now let us consult the Latin Fathers. You will hear Saint Gregory saying clearly, “Many attain to faith, but few to the heavenly kingdom.” Saint Anselm declares, “There are few who are saved.” Saint Augustine states even more clearly, “Therefore, few are saved in comparison to those who are damned.” The most terrifying, however, is Saint Jerome. At the end of his life, in the presence of his disciples, he spoke these dreadful words: “Out of one hundred thousand people whose lives have always been bad, you will find barely one who is worthy of indulgence.”

When Saint Leonard of Port Maurice uses the term “Christian,” he means Catholics, not heretics. Saint Leonard is repeating the consistent teaching of the Fathers and Doctors: most adult Catholics (not even including the non-Catholic world) are lost. If this was the sentiment about the salvation of Catholics in the ages of faith, what would they say today? If you have trouble accepting the truths presented on this website because “it’s just too hard to believe that this many people could be wrong or deceived,” consider the teaching of Our Lord and the saints above. Consider how much more true the teaching on the fewness of the saved is today:

“Lucia found Jacinta sitting alone, still and very pensive, gazing at nothing. ‘What are you thinking of, Jacinta?’ ‘Of the war that is going to come. So many people are going to die. And almost all of them are going to Hell.’” (Our Lady of Fatima, p. 94; p. 92 in some versions)

Jacinta of Fatima, who had visions of future events, said that of those who would die in World War II almost all of them would go to Hell.

Saint Anselm: “If thou wouldst be certain of being in the number of the elect, strive to be one of the few, not of the many. And if thou wouldst be quite sure of thy salvation, strive to be among the fewest of the few… Do not follow the great majority of mankind, but follow those who enter upon the narrow way, who renounce the world, who give themselves to prayer, and who never relax their efforts by day or by night, that they may attain everlasting blessedness.” (Fr. Martin Von Cochem, The Four Last Things, p. 221.)
 
They are well known quotes for those who are paying attention to modern Catholic controversy, and there are many of them, so please limit the thread to those who are familiar with these statements.
This is not appropriate forum etiquette. If a person asks you to please identify some specific quotes, and you come back with a statement that’s basically, “If you don’t already know what I’m talking about then I don’t want to discuss it with you”…not cool.

As the person below you said, this isn’t a mystery site, nor is it a place where you can “please limit the thread” to people who can somehow read your mind. Please provide at least a couple of quotes, or else this is going nowhere fast.
 
I realize that very few people here will be able to answer this question in the academic way I hope it could be. I am wondering, everyone, after Pope Saint John Paul II and his comments regarding salvation including all men, has the doctrine been loosened to the point of my being able to process a belief in the apokatastasis? Please post if you are familiar with the comments of Pope Saint John Paul II the Great.
You’re really conflating two notions here, aren’t you? On one hand, you’re asking “will all be saved?” (which JP II never taught) and on the other hand, you’re asking “will hell only be temporary – will all in hell, including satan and his demons, eventually be saved?”

With respect to the former, it is not the teaching of the Church that, a priori, all will be saved. Neither is it the teaching of the Catholic Church that hell is not eternal. Neither of these teachings are ‘disciplines’; they’re doctrinal. As such, neither John Paul II nor Francis has taught what you suggest.

Perhaps you’re not as familiar with the teachings of JPII as you claim you are? A few citations of quotes might be helpful in identifying where you’re going astray… 😉

Are you, perhaps, getting confused based on JPII’s comments about all being redeemed? That’s a different notion altogether. (Yes, Pope Francis affirmed that teaching, as well, but it’s authentic Catholic teaching.) ‘Redemption’ and ‘salvation’ aren’t identical concepts…
 
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