Binding and Loosening Question? Mt 18:18?

[deanarrca]

“Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matt. 18:18).

Hubby asked what is actually meant by that- What is it that can be bound or loosed.

I said according to Catholics that is the binding and loosening of sin. The bases for Catholic confession. It is probably interpreted in the light of John 20:21-23

But He said again how do they know that refers to binding and loosening sin? How do they know by that scripture that is what is being referred to? How is it linked to john 20:21-23.

I said I would research the question for him and get a better answer.

Just fyi, I was raised Episcopal but after marrying hubby who is Evagelical Christian we attended 3 different along the lines of fundamental/evangelical denominations the last one being Southern Baptist. (We have been married 20 years {married young} so I have been attending Evangelical type churches for about that long with hubby). Since we moved and could not find a church home I made some wonderful Catholic friends where we moved mostly through my kids scouting activities which are sponsored by the local Catholic church. I started going to this wonderful Catholic Church and am going through RCIA. I am very comfortable with the liturgy being tha it is very similar to what I grew up with as Episcopalion.

Hubby has been coming to Church with me and the family although he still has reservations about a lot of the Catholicy things they do. He will not call the priest Father etc due to that scripture call no man fatherr etc. and we haven’t even talked about other issues that I know will eventually come up. I just want to be prepared with good answers for him. Anyway Thanks in advance guys.
Sincerely Deana

 

[Mordocai]

he brings up a good point.
he said “how do you know?”
we don’t, the Church does. this is how Sacred Tradition is used.
we are not using the bible alone, but also the witness of Tradition (capital T)
the Magisterium is the only true, authentic interpreter of God’s Word. but binding and loosing is not only applicable to forgiving sins, it also extends to authority etc.

God Bless
Mordoai

check out the catechism, im sure theres lot of good stuff in there! and search this forum for key words like binding and loosing or the scripture verses you cited

 

[Texas_Roofer]

My understanding is: Peter, and all subsequent Popes as well as the Magisterium can “bind” the church members on issues of morals which are not specifically mentioned in Catholic Tradition. Similarly the Church ( Pope & Magisterium) can remove moral codes if proper to do so. Some examples 1) contraceptives ( not abortive methods or styles) 2) rules of marriages (and most sacraments) 3) cloning, 4) stem cell issues, etc.,etc. The “bind & loose” principle which is combined with authority to interpret “natural law” define the current authority of the Church. Tradition (which proceeds scripture) and Scripture are considered a direct instruction from God. Hope that helps

 

[Verbum]

Hi deanarrca,

The comment in the Bible de Jérusalem is that binding and loosening were rabbinical terms, whose original meaning was to admit to or reject from the community. It also came to mean prohibit or allow. In other words, this is the power to bind consciences.

This passage should be liniked to the one in John, 20, 22-23 :

Receive the Holy Spirit. Those to whom you will remit their sins will have them remitted. Those to whom you will hold back their sins will have them held back .

(My translation.)

This is very similar to “bind” and “loosen”, so it should throw light on the other passage.

Verbum

 

[RyanL]

Since your hubby apparently believes the Bible (a very good thing), you might approach him with the Protestant Sola Scriptura notion that Scripture should interpret Scripture.

When discussing Matt 18 with a Protestant, I typically refer back to Deu 17:

8 If cases come before your courts that are too difficult for you to judge—whether bloodshed, lawsuits or assaults—take them to the place the LORD your God will choose.

9 Go to the priests, who are Levites, and to the judge who is in office at that time. Inquire of them and they will give you the verdict.

10 You must act according to the decisions they give you at the place the LORD will choose. Be careful to do everything they direct you to do.

11 Act according to the law they teach you and the decisions they give you. Do not turn aside from what they tell you, to the right or to the left.

12 The man who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the LORD your God must be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel.

13 All the people will hear and be afraid, and will not be contemptuous again.

Here the system for dispute resolution is clear - try to settle, and if that doesn’t work then go to the Judge-Priests. They will give you the answer, and that answer will be binding. This is the OT root of “binding and loosing”.

What does Matt 18 say?

15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.

16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the Church; and if he refuses to listen even to the Church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

Here, our Lord and Savior gives us a parallel method of dispute resolution. Try to settle, and if that doesn’t work go to the Judge-Priests. They will give you an answer, and that answer will be binding (or loosing, as the case may be).

The difference between the OT and the NT, according to Christ, is in the consequences. In the OT, the consequence was physical exile (by death). In the NT, the consequence is much more severe - spiritual exile (by excommunication). Physical death vs. spiritual death. We should be much more afraid of the latter than the former.

From physical to spiritual reality is not an uncommon transition from the OT to the NT - e.g., delivery from physical slavery (OT) and delivery from spiritual slavery (NT), physical bread to sustain in the manna (OT) and supernatural bread to sustain in the Eucharist (NT). There are a number of examples (which a search of this forum for “typology” should reveal), so don’t be afraid to approach him with this – there’s plenty of Scriptural support.

NOW…does this also relate to confession and the forgiveness of sins? Of course. The dispute is not doctrinal (which is implicated in most of what I wrote above), but it is rather a dispute between you and God. This dispute can only be mediated through Jesus Christ (1 Tim 2:5), and that through His chosen means – the ministerial priesthood. (John 20:22-23.) For whatever reason, Jesus likes to use both material things (like spit and mud) and us (Col 1:24) to accomplish His ends. These do not diminish the power of Christ, but rather are the means through which He manifests His power.

Matt 18 is therefore good to demonstrate the binding nature of conciliar authority as well as demonstrating (so a somewhat lesser extent, explicitly) the ability to bind/loose sins.

Does that help?

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[deanarrca]

Thanks for all the answers. They all helped and I learned a lot.
Thanks Deana

 

[Bishopite]

“Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matt. 18:18).

Hubby asked what is actually meant by that- What is it that can be bound or loosed.

I said according to Catholics that is the binding and loosening of sin. The bases for Catholic confession. It is probably interpreted in the light of John 20:21-23

But He said again how do they know that refers to binding and loosening sin? How do they know by that scripture that is what is being referred to? How is it linked to john 20:21-23.

I said I would research the question for him and get a better answer.

Just fyi, I was raised Episcopal but after marrying hubby who is Evagelical Christian we attended 3 different along the lines of fundamental/evangelical denominations the last one being Southern Baptist. (We have been married 20 years {married young} so I have been attending Evangelical type churches for about that long with hubby). Since we moved and could not find a church home I made some wonderful Catholic friends where we moved mostly through my kids scouting activities which are sponsored by the local Catholic church. I started going to this wonderful Catholic Church and am going through RCIA. I am very comfortable with the liturgy being tha it is very similar to what I grew up with as Episcopalion.

Hubby has been coming to Church with me and the family although he still has reservations about a lot of the Catholicy things they do. He will not call the priest Father etc due to that scripture call no man fatherr etc. and we haven’t even talked about other issues that I know will eventually come up. I just want to be prepared with good answers for him. Anyway Thanks in advance guys.
Sincerely Deana

Deana,

Calling no man father is a common concern for Evangelicals and one I at first struggle with. I am a former Evangelical also (frist being more of a fundamentalist when I was in my early 20’s). Anyway, here is a good article on why calling priests father does NOT violate Jesus’ words in Mt 23:9 and is in fact Scriptural…
catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9710fea1.asp

Also, you probably didn’t know that Protestants also called their leaders “father” at one time in the 1800’ and 1900’s. Here is the article written not by a Catholic but by a Protestant…
religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1916

 

[jonfan]

Hi there,
As far as the rock you might want to start with what Jesus was most likely quoting in Matthew. How did Peter and the Apostles understand the tradition and what Jesus actually meant? What were the keys?

**ISA22:22. And I will lay the key of the house of David upon his shoulder: and he shall open, and none shall shut: and he shall shut, and none shall open.

22:23. And I will fasten him as a peg in a sure place, and he shall be for a throne of glory to the house of his father.

22:24. And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father’s house, divers kinds of vessels, every little vessel, from the vessels of cups even to every instrument of music. **

Also if you read Isa 22 in context you will see that it talks about:

The prophet laments the devastation of Juda. He foretells the deprivation of Sobna, and the substitution of Eliacim, a figure of Christ.

newadvent.org/bible/isa022.htm

 

[Todd_Easton]

“Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matt. 18:18).

An example of the exercise of binding and loosing can be found in Acts 15. The apostles and elders of the church met in Jerusalem and decided to “loose” Gentile converts from most Jewish practices, including circumcision, but they decided to “bind” Gentile converts to abstain from what had been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what had been strangled and from unchastity.

 

[maryj]

Since your hubby apparently believes the Bible (a very good thing), you might approach him with the Protestant Sola Scriptura notion that Scripture should interpret Scripture.

When discussing Matt 18 with a Protestant, I typically refer back to Deu 17:
Here the system for dispute resolution is clear - try to settle, and if that doesn’t work then go to the Judge-Priests. They will give you the answer, and that answer will be binding. This is the OT root of “binding and loosing”.

What does Matt 18 say?
Here, our Lord and Savior gives us a parallel method of dispute resolution. Try to settle, and if that doesn’t work go to the Judge-Priests. They will give you an answer, and that answer will be binding (or loosing, as the case may be).

The difference between the OT and the NT, according to Christ, is in the consequences. In the OT, the consequence was physical exile (by death). In the NT, the consequence is much more severe - spiritual exile (by excommunication). Physical death vs. spiritual death. We should be much more afraid of the latter than the former.

From physical to spiritual reality is not an uncommon transition from the OT to the NT - e.g., delivery from physical slavery (OT) and delivery from spiritual slavery (NT), physical bread to sustain in the manna (OT) and supernatural bread to sustain in the Eucharist (NT). There are a number of examples (which a search of this forum for “typology” should reveal), so don’t be afraid to approach him with this – there’s plenty of Scriptural support.

NOW…does this also relate to confession and the forgiveness of sins? Of course. The dispute is not doctrinal (which is implicated in most of what I wrote above), but it is rather a dispute between you and God. This dispute can only be mediated through Jesus Christ (1 Tim 2:5), and that through His chosen means – the ministerial priesthood. (John 20:22-23.) For whatever reason, Jesus likes to use both material things (like spit and mud) and us (Col 1:24) to accomplish His ends. These do not diminish the power of Christ, but rather are the means through which He manifests His power.

Matt 18 is therefore good to demonstrate the binding nature of conciliar authority as well as demonstrating (so a somewhat lesser extent, explicitly) the ability to bind/loose sins.

Does that help?

God Bless,
RyanL

Ryan, do you go to Notre Dame? You always wow me with your posts, praise God.