Binge drinking

[Deus_tecum]

Well I dont flip out when we have a drink or two with dinner, or when he’s with me at a ball game and has 1-2 beers, or when we went to wineries on our honeymoon, etc. The problem is the binge drinking with buddies, driving while intoxicated, and irresponsible behavior. He drank a couple drinks last week the day over his hangover to “take the edge off”. This is the problem.

He may be in process of becoming alcoholic. Right now I would classify it as a drinking problem. I recommend you read some books on co-dependency so you don’t fall into the trap of enabling him. Enabling behaviors are things like going out in the middle of the night to pick him up because he got too trashed to drive, calling in sick for him when he has a hangover, etc. You have probably already made your case so it makes no sense to nag or argue. He has to come to terms with this on his own.

 

[February]

I"m not condoning his behavior but what’s worse than staying in a hotel after a night of drinking is driving home drunk.

Well yes, but my brother would either drive or we’d take the metro to the game. The issue is my family (nieces & sis-in-law) seeing him very drunk when we come back to the house. He plans on getting “wasted”, and therefore would prefer to stay with his buddy at the hotel. He thought he was doing me a favor by planning this, but it made me very angry.

 

[Karen107]

He’s done that multiple times as well, according to his wife. He has a DUI and has driven drunk after that.

He is an alcoholic because he doesn’t know when to stop and he has impaired judgement. He’s what’s called as a functional alcoholic. It’s important to keep the lines of communication open so he will be honest with you. If he’s had too much to drink he should stay where he’s at or you drive him. Problem is that enabling bit by you. It’s not fair to you, which is why you need support. Better sooner than later. Loving a person with a drinking problem is easy, but harder to live by. Pray for his conversion of heart.

 

[Karen107]

Well yes, but my brother would either drive or we’d take the metro to the game. The issue is my family (nieces & sis-in-law) seeing him very drunk when we come back to the house. He plans on getting “wasted”, and therefore would prefer to stay with his buddy at the hotel. He thought he was doing me a favor by planning this, but it made me very angry.

Alcoholism is a disease, remember that. It’s like can you cure diabetes without medicine, nope. So the reasoning will go nowhere unless the person is willing to help themselves.

 

[Karen107]

Sorry February, I is your brother you’re’ talking about. Maybe share what we said with his wife.

 

[Karen107]

I think I get it now… You said your brother drives your husband… That’s good, except to get your husband to avoid situations that would lead him to drink is better, and maybe the people around him can help with that.

 

[EasterJoy]

…He plans on getting “wasted”, and therefore would prefer to stay with his buddy at the hotel. He thought he was doing me a favor by planning this…

Planning on getting drunk is wrong. Accidentally drinking too much is bad enough, but getting drunk on purpose is abuse of alcohol. It isn’t acceptable, and he should not try to tell you otherwise.

Well I dont flip out when we have a drink or two with dinner, or when he’s with me at a ball game and has 1-2 beers, or when we went to wineries on our honeymoon, etc. The problem is the binge drinking with buddies, driving while intoxicated, and irresponsible behavior. He drank a couple drinks last week the day over his hangover to “take the edge off”. This is the problem.

So, he knows how to drink responsibly and most of the time he’s responsible. That is good. The problem is that he believes that there is a responsible way to be totally irresponsible once in a while. There is not. That is why there is a legal drinking age, because adults have the self-mastery to limit their own drinking and gauge when they’ve unintentionally had a bit too much, while minors very often do not. Unfortunately, when it comes to drinking, many people (male and female) do not abandon their love of irresponsible drinking until they marry a responsible drinker and come to their senses.

The Church teaches that drunkenness is a sin. Public drunkenness is illegal to some degree in many jurisdictions, while in every case drunkenness leaves a person far more prone to violate the laws against offensive behavior such as disorderly conduct. Being intoxicated makes a person vulnerable to robbery, assault, debauchery, becoming a general annoyance if not a threat to those around him, poor driving decisions, and very poor decision-making in general. Let us also not forget that there is really no such thing as private drunkenness in a world where everyone between eight and eighty has a cell phone with a camera on it with a direct link to Youtube and Facebook. We’re all celebrities now. It is wise to conduct ourselves accordingly!!

BTW, it is the opinion of medicine that “the hair of the dog” only delays the inevitable–that is, you will eventually have to face the consequences of how you are going to feel while you are at some level of sober but your liver has still not detoxified you of the excess alcohol you consumed. The best remedy for a hangover is to not drink so d&Ned much!*

It sounds to me as if he needs to prove to you that being left alone with these buddies is not the problem. If he can’t hang out alone with them without getting drunk, then he needs to quit hanging out alone with them, because healthy non-addicted adults do not abuse alcohol by design. Period.

 

[Karen107]

BTW, it is the opinion of medicine that “the hair of the dog” only delays the inevitable–that is, you will eventually have to face the consequences of how you are going to feel while you are at some level of sober but your liver has still not detoxified you of the excess alcohol you consumed. The best remedy for a hangover is to not drink so d&Ned much!*

I would use the word he not YOU here.

It sounds to me as if he needs to prove to you that being left alone with these buddies is not the problem. If he can’t hang out alone with them without getting drunk, then he needs to quit hanging out alone with them, because healthy non-addicted adults do not abuse alcohol by design. Period

It sounds to me like he needs to be convinced that drinking with buddies is not alright for her. That when he does things like that he hurts her and hurts the family. That he’s not being a responsible parent and setting a good example for their children. She’s the victim, not him. He’s got a problem called alcoholism, a sickness, and they both need to deal with it in different ways so that there can be healing, spiritually and physically and the family can become a well functioning family. When someone does things to hurt or take advantage of the other, they also take away the love in the marriage and he needs to be reminded of that. There can’t be love when there is hate and anger going on.

 

[EasterJoy]

I would use the word he not YOU here.

It sounds to me like he needs to be convinced that drinking with buddies is not alright for her. That when he does things like that he hurts her and hurts the family. That he’s not being a responsible parent and setting a good example for their children. She’s the victim, not him. He’s got a problem called alcoholism, a sickness, and they both need to deal with it in different ways so that there can be healing, spiritually and physically and the family can become a well functioning family. When someone does things to hurt or take advantage of the other, they also take away the love in the marriage and he needs to be reminded of that. There can’t be love when there is hate and anger going on.

I used “you” to mean the information was generally applicable, and not just applicable to him.

It is premature to say he is an alcoholic, especially since he has demonstrated the capacity to use alcohol appropriately when he wants to. I think it very likely that he is not an alcoholic, but rather has accepted a wrong-headed cultural attitude that says there is a place and time for a decent person to get recreationally drunk with his friends. I have known many binge drinkers, however, who saw the light and learned to use alcohol in an appropriate manner.

If she says the friends are unacceptable, he may feel she is trying to choose his friends for him. That will not work. If she focuses on the behavior, that is a different matter. “No offense against Jon and Luke, I’m sure they’re great guys when you’re not out alone together, but when the three of you get together, you need to get a grip on yourselves or else get a chaperone.”

“The binge drinking needs to stop. That is not negotiable. How you stop it is up to you. If there is a situation where you make it your habit to get drunk, though, you’re going to have to choose between that habit and your marriage, because choosing to get drunk again is not acceptable. It isn’t OK, and you know that, or you wouldn’t mind if anyone saw you like that. As it is, you want to hide the way you are when you drink, and that should tell you something about what you really think about your drunk self. It won’t be long before the way you are when you drink and the things you say when you get drunk are going to be on YouTube for the whole world to see, or when you’re going to be in front of a judge again for what you did when you were like that, maybe with someone dead, and then there is no taking it back.” and, if it is true “You didn’t let me know you thought it was OK to go out and get drunk when we were dating, and I’m not going to take the bait-and-switch.”

 

[EasterJoy]

I would also point out to her husband that being the single sober friend in a group that is planning on engaging in public intoxication (rather than wanting to be totally sure that one of them is 100% clear to drive a car) is a very bad plan. A drunk friend is a friend who can get both himself and you into a world of trouble. Everybody needs to plan to practice some level of temperance, or this outing will have been a profoundly foolish one to join.

 

[EasterJoy]

Experts, by the way, do not believe that everyone who intentionally gets drunk is an alcoholic, but do say that drunkenness itself is a threat to the well-being of the general public:

"*Drunkenness is frequently associated with heavy and problematic drinking but is a preventable and avoidable outcome. There are clear implications of drunkenness for health and social problems. Intoxication, particularly if it is repeated, is associated with increased risk in the following areas:

–injury and emergency room admission (Cherpitel, 1996, 1998; Cherpitel, Giesbrecht, & Macdonald, 1999; Roche, Watt, McClure, Purdie, & Green, 2001; Warner, Barnes, & Fingerhut, 2000);
–acute alcohol poisoning (Lahti & Vuori, 2002; Pletcher, Maselli, & Gonzales, 2004; Reuther, Carter, & Rutty, 1998; Woolfenden, Dossetor, & Williams, 2002);
–death due to hypothermia (Andon, 1997; Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 2005; Finlayson & Hurt, 1998);
–certain cardiovascular problems (Gras et al., 1992; Hillbom, 1998; Rosengren, Wilhelmsen, Pennert, Berglund, & Elmfeldt, 1987; Vogel, 2002);
–neurological problems and dementia (Diamond & Messing, 1994);
–accidents and greater severity of such accidents (Fabbri et al., 2002; Honkanen & Smith, 1990; Lunetta, Penttila, & Sarna, 1998);
–traffic fatalities (Klein & Burgess, 1993; Shih et al., 2003);
–fetal alcohol syndrome and effects (Abel, 1998; Coles, Russell, & Schuetze, 1997).
In addition, heavy drinking patterns and associated drunkenness are also highly correlated with social outcomes that include:

–loss of productivity (Heller & Robinson, 1992; Moore, 1998);
–public disturbance (Giancola, 2004; Ogle & Miller, 2004; Wells, Graham, & West, 2000);
–crime and violence (Harrison & Fillmore, 2005; Hingson, Heeren, & Zakocs, 2001);
–alcohol-impaired driving (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 2004).*."

–International Center for Alcohol Policies
icap.org/PolicyTools/ICAPBlueBook/BlueBookModules/5Drunkenness/tabid/166/Default.aspx

Of course, the OP might ask how much her husband would like to see her in one of those groups of drunken women he has no doubt seen at bars, the ones making fools of themselves, ruining the evening for other patrons, and pushing each other to “have a good time” with strange men. If he wouldn’t want to see her that way, why should it be acceptable for him to be out representing their family in that way?

 

[Abundant]

I am in my mid-30’s and I have been married for 12 years. I have a wonderful husband who loves me, loves our children, attends mass regularly, prays with the family, supports the family…you get the idea. BUT he has the exact same problem. There are 2 or 3 friends that he has that he will go to dinner or a sports club with to watch the game and he does not know when to stop. His behavior during this time is horrible. He acts like a teenager, gets mean, cusses and turns into a raving lunatic. One of these friends was invited to the party after my daughter’s baptism. He brought a bottle of tequila with him, The rest is history and involved a lot of throwing up.

In 12 years of marriage, he has done this maybe 6-10 times?? So not even once a year. Each time I get furious, but then I get over it. We do have an agreement now that if I say (not him) that he is too drunk to drive, then he will not drive. No one deserves to die because he doesn’t know when he has had one drink too many. We came to this agreement when he decided he was ‘sober enough’ to drive home and I told him that if he got behind the wheel and put other people in danger, I would be forced to call the police. Honestly—I would have too because I could not live with the guilt of knowing that my INACTION could take the life of someone else.

The only thing that concerns me about your question is that it seems to be more frequent with your husband. If this is an every weekend…or even every month thing, then he is putting drinking ahead of your marriage and that is a clear sign of a problem.

If that is not the case, then offer to be a designated driver from time to time and set some rules up front like do drunk driving, no sleeping anywhere but with your wife and he is responsible for his own hang over.

 

[EasterJoy]

I am in my mid-30’s and I have been married for 12 years. I have a wonderful husband who loves me, loves our children, attends mass regularly, prays with the family, supports the family…you get the idea. BUT he has the exact same problem. There are 2 or 3 friends that he has that he will go to dinner or a sports club with to watch the game and he does not know when to stop. His behavior during this time is horrible. He acts like a teenager, gets mean, cusses and turns into a raving lunatic. One of these friends was invited to the party after my daughter’s baptism. He brought a bottle of tequila with him, The rest is history and involved a lot of throwing up.

In 12 years of marriage, he has done this maybe 6-10 times?? So not even once a year. Each time I get furious, but then I get over it. We do have an agreement now that if I say (not him) that he is too drunk to drive, then he will not drive. No one deserves to die because he doesn’t know when he has had one drink too many. We came to this agreement when he decided he was ‘sober enough’ to drive home and I told him that if he got behind the wheel and put other people in danger, I would be forced to call the police. Honestly—I would have too because I could not live with the guilt of knowing that my INACTION could take the life of someone else.

The only thing that concerns me about your question is that it seems to be more frequent with your husband. If this is an every weekend…or even every month thing, then he is putting drinking ahead of your marriage and that is a clear sign of a problem.

If that is not the case, then offer to be a designated driver from time to time and set some rules up front like do drunk driving, no sleeping anywhere but with your wife and he is responsible for his own hang over.

You’re describing chaperoned binge drinking. It is not OK, but it is light-years ahead of letting a bunch of guys go out with the idea that they’re going to both get drunk and chaperone themselves, let alone that they’re going to go out and do it anywhere near the public eye or where strangers have to endure them. If the binge drinkers allow a chaperone along who has the total authority to call the police if they don’t mind their manners, that at least protects the rest of the world from* most* of the worst things that could result from their self-centered foolishness. As you say, anyone who lets those guys loose on the world without warning is at least partly complicit in whatever harm and havoc they cause. It is co-dependent to think that what others in our family choose to do is within our power to stop or control, but it is enabling to just sit on our hands and let them do anything they want to whomever they want without lifting a finger to protect the innocent from the guilty.

A group of drunks out roaming the world on their own is in some respects worse than the same group if it were sober and bent on committing a crime. At least there are some things that sober criminals won’t do! A group of drunks is totally unpredictable.

 

[Karen107]

I used “you” to mean the information was generally applicable, and not just applicable to him.

It is premature to say he is an alcoholic, especially since he has demonstrated the capacity to use alcohol appropriately when he wants to. I think it very likely that he is not an alcoholic, but rather has accepted a wrong-headed cultural attitude that says there is a place and time for a decent person to get recreationally drunk with his friends. I have known many binge drinkers, however, who saw the light and learned to use alcohol in an appropriate manner.

If she says the friends are unacceptable, he may feel she is trying to choose his friends for him. That will not work. If she focuses on the behavior, that is a different matter. “No offense against Jon and Luke, I’m sure they’re great guys when you’re not out alone together, but when the three of you get together, you need to get a grip on yourselves or else get a chaperone.”

“The binge drinking needs to stop. That is not negotiable. How you stop it is up to you. If there is a situation where you make it your habit to get drunk, though, you’re going to have to choose between that habit and your marriage, because choosing to get drunk again is not acceptable. It isn’t OK, and you know that, or you wouldn’t mind if anyone saw you like that. As it is, you want to hide the way you are when you drink, and that should tell you something about what you really think about your drunk self. It won’t be long before the way you are when you drink and the things you say when you get drunk are going to be on YouTube for the whole world to see, or when you’re going to be in front of a judge again for what you did when you were like that, maybe with someone dead, and then there is no taking it back.” and, if it is true “You didn’t let me know you thought it was OK to go out and get drunk when we were dating, and I’m not going to take the bait-and-switch.”

Once again, the binge drinking is not her problem it’s his… I don’t agree. He can go for a long time believing like you there’s not a problem because the person keeps a job or whatever, but it is a known fact that binge drinking is actually Worse than being a regular alcoholic because it causes the body to need alcohol on a regular basis which is why he drinks inbetween. It’s actually bad for the body to have such a overload of Alcohol and then no level. It can cause blood alcohol problems and very risky behavior. It causes the person not to stabilize their blood level of alcohol so when they do have a binge the effects are much worse than any occasional drinker or even a certified drinker. The man clearly knows he will get to that level which is why he’s warning his wife. The man is a functional alcoholic because he’s not the kind you see on the street who can’t hold a job and lost everything. He’s probably keeping it in check because of her but there will be a time that he does something foolish and there will be consequences, so don’t belittle it. If he continues to meet the same friends he will continue to be placed in the situation where he drinks too much and loses it and who knows what will happen next time. That’s the reality of it because he hasn’t realized he has a problem or if he does he doesn’t want to stop and that’s the denial part of it, but he does have a problem if he drinks to the point where he’s out of control and continues this behavior. Yes it’s childish behavior, and the functional alcoholic will say things like I don’t want to grow up or it makes me happy or it releases stress. But the fact of the matter is that drinking to excess will only compound the problem. He might be able to be around old friends again but not until he admits he has a problem and works on controlling his drinking. Chances are if he is with them sober he’ll see how foolish they really look.

alcoholism.about.com/od/problem/a/functional.htm

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

I would definitely speak up and go to a Priest. Drinking like this is not normal or healthy, and only bad things can come of it, whether they be DUI’s, alcoholism, or getting in a car crash and getting killed or killing someone (Imagine if he was drunk and got in a car crash and killed a small child, for instance). If none of that is a sobering thought for him, there is definitely a problem that needs to be addressed. Talk to a Priest or professional about it.

 

[SamH]

The point is, this behavior makes me upset, frustrated, and worried about what could happen. He has apologized on a few occasions for his drunk behavior the night before, but nothing has changed much. I guess the straw that broke the camel’s back (we are currently in an argument) was his saying that on a visit to see my family out of state (which involves a football game to which his buddy is also traveling to) he’s going to stay with his friend at the hotel on the night of the game. He says that “you dont want to see me at a game, and we’re going to the bar afterwards.” The fact that he’s planning to be inebriated and not just enjoy a few beers really bothers me. Plus it’s embarrassing to tell my family, who have offered to let us stay both nights.

So, what do you think? Am I blowing this out of proportion because of my brother’s history, or is there a bigger problem here?

How old is he?

I used to drink a lot too, but with marriage, kids and all the responsibilities I’ve nearly stopped. If someone had said 20 years ago I would go weeks on end without even drinking a beer the announcement would have been greeted with laughter from me and my friends… I’ve had the same 6 pack in the my Fridge since May.

 

[EasterJoy]

Once again, the binge drinking is not her problem it’s his… I don’t agree. He can go for a long time believing like you there’s not a problem because the person keeps a job or whatever, but it is a known fact that binge drinking is actually Worse than being a regular alcoholic because it causes the body to need alcohol on a regular basis which is why he drinks inbetween. It’s actually bad for the body to have such a overload of Alcohol and then no level. It can cause blood alcohol problems and very risky behavior. It causes the person not to stabilize their blood level of alcohol so when they do have a binge the effects are much worse than any occasional drinker or even a certified drinker. The man clearly knows he will get to that level which is why he’s warning his wife. The man is a functional alcoholic because he’s not the kind you see on the street who can’t hold a job and lost everything. He’s probably keeping it in check because of her but there will be a time that he does something foolish and there will be consequences, so don’t belittle it. If he continues to meet the same friends he will continue to be placed in the situation where he drinks too much and loses it and who knows what will happen next time. That’s the reality of it because he hasn’t realized he has a problem or if he does he doesn’t want to stop and that’s the denial part of it, but he does have a problem if he drinks to the point where he’s out of control and continues this behavior. Yes it’s childish behavior, and the functional alcoholic will say things like I don’t want to grow up or it makes me happy or it releases stress. But the fact of the matter is that drinking to excess will only compound the problem. He might be able to be around old friends again but not until he admits he has a problem and works on controlling his drinking. Chances are if he is with them sober he’ll see how foolish they really look.

alcoholism.about.com/od/problem/a/functional.htm

I’m sorry, I think I expressed myself badly.

Binge drinking is not proof of alcoholism, but it is still a sin. As the Catechism notes, to drive when one is impaired rises to the seriousness of a mortal sin. Under no circumstances can it be tolerated. I’m not saying that the wife ought to tolerate it! If anyone thinks that it is only “a problem” to get drunk if one becomes an alcoholic, they are seriously mistaken!! If he’s drunk, that’s a problem. He needs to be denied the chance to hurt anyone else until he sobers up, and then a solution needs to be found so that it doesn’t happen again. Period.

When I said his drinking was not under her control, I meant that she can only draw her boundaries; she can’t take on the responsibility for making him a moral actor. It is hers to admonish, it is hers to draw boundaries, yes, but she cannot afford to believe herself responsible if he goes out and gets drunk. If he gets drunk, it is his sin, the fault is on him, not on her, that is what I mean. What I mean to say is that she is not to blame if he gets drunk. He is.

He may or may not be an alcohol addict. By that I mean he may or may not have to quit drinking altogether in order to control himself. When I say he may not be an alcoholic, I mean that he may be capable of using alcohol responsibility. Even if he is not an alcoholic, though, he has to be responsible with his drinking at all times. Drunkenness is seriously wrong, public drunkenness is even worse (because it affects others more and exposes everyone to much more risk), and driving drunk or engaging in any other activity that could get someone killed (such as using a firearm when drunk) is even more seriously wrong yet. There is no level of these activities that is morally permissible, and his wife has every right to draw the line and say so.

 

[February]

How old is he?

I used to drink a lot too, but with marriage, kids and all the responsibilities I’ve nearly stopped. If someone had said 20 years ago I would go weeks on end without even drinking a beer the announcement would have been greeted with laughter from me and my friends… I’ve had the same 6 pack in the my Fridge since May.

He is 35. I think that is plenty old enough to have common sense about the dangers of heavy drinking. Among the friends he drinks with, about half are married with kids. A couple of friends that they don’t see much anymore are talked about negatively now, but I think these friends (or their wives) have “grown up” and just realized that the partying isn’t for them at this point in their lives.

At any rate, I left him a note since we haven’t been speaking much. Tonight is his bowling night, which generally turns into a drinking event since they usually go to a bar before/after, and have beers during bowling. I dread Thurs because of this. Please pray for me, I’ve felt pretty hopeless this week.

 

[Xantippe]

“A couple of friends that they don’t see much anymore are talked about negatively now, but I think these friends (or their wives) have “grown up” and just realized that the partying isn’t for them at this point in their lives.”

Can you get in touch with these people? They could be a real resource.

 

[Karen107]

He is 35. I think that is plenty old enough to have common sense about the dangers of heavy drinking. Among the friends he drinks with, about half are married with kids. A couple of friends that they don’t see much anymore are talked about negatively now, but I think these friends (or their wives) have “grown up” and just realized that the partying isn’t for them at this point in their lives.

At any rate, I left him a note since we haven’t been speaking much. Tonight is his bowling night, which generally turns into a drinking event since they usually go to a bar before/after, and have beers during bowling. I dread Thurs because of this. Please pray for me, I’ve felt pretty hopeless this week.

Of course I’ll pray for you but also I’m tellin ya, go to Al-Anon, it won’t cost you anything and they can give you some ideas of what you can do…By all means go talk to a priest but that’s what I believe a priest might tell you as well because it’s really not fair to you. You married a husband and father, not a college buddy…It’s time for him to become a man.