I disagree. The universe started 13.7 billion years ago. 20 billion years there was no universe, so any designer of the universe was separated by from the design by time .
It applies to the explanation for the origin of life:
Good morning Rossum. Thank you for these three posts. I will resopond later, probably late this evening, this is going to be a busy day for me - lots of yard work to do while the weather is good. Linus2nd
Another error is to claim that just because the internal model is designed, but limited in accuracy, that for some reason, the external model cannot be designed. Nothing you have said proves or disproves anything about whether or not the external model can be designed.
How do the tornados in Oklahoma and Missouri fit in with the intelligent design principle?
In an immensely complex universe it is inevitable that there are unfortunate coincidences which have undesirable consequences. Within the framework of Design there is an element of Chance. Sooner or later some one is bound to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Why not have chance lead to the creation of a huge number of experiments, most of which fail? The ones that succeed incorporate the features that were arrived at by chance, leading to a following generation whose odds of surviving are better than the previous one. This is how evolution is thought to work. No design is necessary. Just random combinations of features, some of which are failures from day one, but others of which are successful.
Time itself is a product of the universe; both space AND time begin with the Big Bang. It is incoherent to speak, in any real sense, of any amount of time that exceeds the age of the universe. It is equally absurd to say that God could be separated from the universe by time, as time has no existence outside of the universe by which to separate anything.
I don’t see how ID has any thing to do with finding the most reliable method of treating a cancer or any other disease. However the scientist relies on ID to do his research. If design were not part of the materials he was studying and the tools he applied to them he wouldn’t get off first base.
Time is relative only to the physical universe. God exists in an eternal Now, He simply Is, and Is Now. His knowledge is all embracing, infinite, and this includes His Plan for creation and the execution of that Plan. That Plan He executes in His eternal Now. His Plan is to create the time bound beings of the physical universe. The passage of time does not occure for Him but for us. His Design is part and parcel of His Plan. It unfolds for us in time and in the well ordered functioning of all systems of the universe and of all things that ever existed in it or will ever exist in it. Nothing escapes His guiding " hand, " nothing exists without His upholding power. Nothing is fortuitous, there are no chance happenings, no accidents, nothing escapes His Plan, all is designed and planned, even the free choices of man, even the roll of the dice, the draw of the card.
I hate the word " Creationism " since it has acquired such adverse political overtones. I am not a part of the " party. " We are faced with a time bound, limited, contingent, physical universe. For the sake of argument, it may have existed eternally or it may have had an absolute beginning. Life may have existed eternally in it or it may have appeared at some point in the past.
See my post # 542, I only included part of the link, you can read all the answers by following the link.
Your observations are true but your conclusion is worng. If the human race was not capable of knowing the external world as it is, if his intellect did not form a correct idea of it from the data collected by the senses, it would not have survived more that a few days. Sure some of us are disabled to some extent but the human race isn’t.
Well, what in the world is a " Oduronit ? " Linus2nd
Correct. All that I am saying here is that, “It sure looks designed to me,” is not an argument for design in the external world. It is only an argument for design in our internal models, which I am not disputing.
Not all cosmologists agree with you. See “The Myth of the Beginning of Time”.
It is a property of everything. Being a property of everything, it is useless. It is also a nonsense word I generated (alternate vowels and consonants).
We do not need an exact knowledge of the external world. Europeans survived perfectly well for thousands of years without an exact knowledge of Australia. We do not need an exact knowledge; we need a “good enough” knowledge. That is, good enough in our environment. In the historical European environment, a knowledge of Australia was not needed and so could be omitted from their models.
