Birth control and non-Catholics

[Amolibri]

It is just an incredible leap for someone to answer “Yes I am an MD in good standing” with: *ARE YOU A BABY KILLER, THEN?/*I]
You really need to get a grip. Do you even realize that this type of agressive language does nothing to advance the cause???

You are totally uncivil in your “dialog”… it makes a mockery of this debate. (which was about BC, btw. ) [and please spare me the “there’s nothing civil about abortion” ] All of this is so predictable…and shuts down the dialog…maybe that’s your goal???

 

[Harmony1988]

I am not opposed to NFP for those of a couple–BOTH of them–who want to use it but I find this sort of preoccupation with the female bodily functions disturbing. All that temperature taking, and preoccupation with genitalia, no less, palpating the vulva, wiggling the cervix, testing the cervical mucus, I think is disgusting and excessively focussed on the female cycle, which the human race, especially men have disparaged and proscribed for centuries–dirty menstrual cycles, mandatory mikva after the period, no bat mitzva because a girl might be menstruating when she touches the Torah–horrors!-- all that sort of stuff.

It’s also not reliable for the vast majority of its practitioners.

I’m a physician, by the way.

The vast majority of RC’s use ‘artificial’ birth control which has become safer, more predictable and cheaper–with many options, including reliable barriers–with each passing year.

The proscription of artificial birth control was the opening wedge in the divorce of the average Catholic from the official church in the US and Europe, the cradle of RC and where the money is. If it weren’t for all the money still coming from the US to the Vatican, the US church would have been in schism years ago.

Considering this is the same Church that has been able to hold it together for 2000 years? Oh I think the US church is in schism to an extent since the 1960’s ever since Humanae Vitae was published. This isn’t purely a monetary issue, I don’t know if you read recently about like…divorce rates, infidelity and such being attributed to artificial contraception, not only by religious researches but secular ones too.

This seems to go in hand with what I know about my native country and what surrounds it, the divorce rates, infidelity and such is much lower, the western influenced still hasn’t rubbed off completely in places like Sri Lanka and countries in Africa.

You are also making the error of equating “easier” with “morally correct” - I am not trying to pigeon hole you here saying you are immoral for condoning birth control, but rather your logic to justify that just because it’s easy it must be also correct.

It would be easy for me to shoot someone and end a debate rather than debate him, but it doesn’t make it morally correct.

I found this line rather amusing:

“and preoccupation with genitalia”

Oh and sex is what? Discussing Plato?
Perhaps the trade embargo against Cuba. ?

I think your attempt to dismiss the RCC’s stance on contraception in 200 words failed, not surprisingly.

 

[TLara]

It is just an incredible leap for someone to answer “Yes I am an MD in good standing” with: *ARE YOU A BABY KILLER, THEN?/*I]
You really need to get a grip. Do you even realize that this type of agressive language does nothing to advance the cause???

You are totally uncivil in your “dialog”… it makes a mockery of this debate. (which was about BC, btw. ) [and please spare me the “there’s nothing civil about abortion” ] All of this is so predictable…and shuts down the dialog…maybe that’s your goal???


I think you really need to open your eyes. The Doctors who perform abortions, women who have them, and men who encourage are all responsible for the killing of the innocent. some b.c cause abortions too and the same label is applied to them as well. B.C is the # 1 evil that has taken over our great nation. since the 60’s when all states where forced to legalize B.C Divorce, adultery,std’s, sex before marriage and unwanted pregnancies have increased a 1000%. for 1900 years all of Christianity forbid B.C and not until the early 1900’s did some start to o.k it. there is no way to justify it and still consider yourself a follower of Christ.

 

[emeraldcoast]

I think you really need to open your eyes. The Doctors who perform abortions, women who have them, and men who encourage are all responsible for the killing of the innocent. some b.c cause abortions too and the same label is applied to them as well. B.C is the # 1 evil that has taken over our great nation. since the 60’s when all states where forced to legalize B.C Divorce, adultery,std’s, sex before marriage and unwanted pregnancies have increased a 1000%. for 1900 years all of Christianity forbid B.C and not until the early 1900’s did some start to o.k it. there is no way to justify it and still consider yourself a follower of Christ.

Is this a joke???

 

[jmcrae]

Is this a joke???

It may be a little overinflated, but can you walk down any residential street in Canada or the United States and not pass even one house where there has been a divorce, where there has been a divorce and remarriage, where there has been a teen pregnancy, or where there has been an abortion, or where the couple is living together without the benefit of marriage?

Unless you were in a Hutterite colony or Amish community, I actually doubt that you could.

Fifty years ago, this was not the case.

 

[TLara]

check out this info

leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/epid-std.html

 

[Amolibri]

Is this a joke???

'fraid not…

If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.
-Maslow

 

[Calliso]

Non Catholic definately procontraception here. Though I can understand why some people are so against it. especially those that got the nasty side affects. Personally it made my life much much better. Little risk of pregnancy plus less periods and kinder periods is a win win! Unfortunately I am terrified of going to the gyno so no birth control for me until I get over that fear again…
Really though as this thread shows there is a whole range among noncatholics. And even amoung catholics!

 

[NeedImprovement]

check out this info

leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/epid-std.html

I checked it out…- a very informative eye-opener.

Thanks TLaura.

 

[emeraldcoast]

Non Catholic definately procontraception here. Though I can understand why some people are so against it. especially those that got the nasty side affects. Personally it made my life much much better. Little risk of pregnancy plus less periods and kinder periods is a win win! Unfortunately I am terrified of going to the gyno so no birth control for me until I get over that fear again…
Really though as this thread shows there is a whole range among noncatholics. And even amoung catholics!

Hi Calliso,

On the other hand, women that do take birth control may be a little better at making their yearly gyn appointments because they need the prescription. Also, I wonder with the yearly physicals required to get the BCPs how many problems have been discovered through those physicals like cervical cancer, breast cancer and thyroid disease for starters. I guess what I am wondering is if women that are on BCP are statistically higher at getting a yearly physical then those that are not and are normally healthy.

God Bless!

 

[Calliso]

Hi Calliso,

On the other hand, women that do take birth control may be a little better at making their yearly gyn appointments because they need the prescription. Also, I wonder with the yearly physicals required to get the BCPs how many problems have been discovered through those physicals like cervical cancer, breast cancer and thyroid disease for starters. I guess what I am wondering is if women that are on BCP are statistically higher at getting a yearly physical then those that are not and are normally healthy.

God Bless!

Yeah when I was on it I think I went half dozen times in my first year of marriage! But that is because I had issues. Unfortunately nmy experience have actually led to me not going at all. But I bet that most people on bc do go regularly and therefore perhaps are at less risk of the things you listed. Personally I just pray I donlt have anything bad now.

 

[emeraldcoast]

Yeah when I was on it I think I went half dozen times in my first year of marriage! But that is because I had issues. Unfortunately nmy experience have actually led to me not going at all. But I bet that most people on bc do go regularly and therefore perhaps are at less risk of the things you listed. Personally I just pray I donlt have anything bad now.

As your sister in Christ, please go get a physical. Please ask a couple of your girlfriends about their doctors and pick one to see. It is our duty to take care of our bodies–fantastic gifts from our Lord.

God Bless!

 

[emeraldcoast]

It may be a little overinflated, but can you walk down any residential street in Canada or the United States and not pass even one house where there has been a divorce, where there has been a divorce and remarriage, where there has been a teen pregnancy, or where there has been an abortion, or where the couple is living together without the benefit of marriage?

Unless you were in a Hutterite colony or Amish community, I actually doubt that you could.

Fifty years ago, this was not the case.

Have you considered that possibly 50 years ago that they were just better at keeping secrets? I doubt that a “shot-gun wedding” is a new term. I am sure that you would agree that extramarital affairs are not a new thing either. Porn is not new, We also had Al-Anon back in the late 50s, so things weren’t all peachy in the family unless you were wearing your rose colored glasses and pearls…

I thank God for the gift of IVF for my family and this wasn’t available 50 years ago …

God Bless!

 

[jmcrae]

Have you considered that possibly 50 years ago that they were just better at keeping secrets? I doubt that a “shot-gun wedding” is a new term. I am sure that you would agree that extramarital affairs are not a new thing either. Porn is not new, We also had Al-Anon back in the late 50s, so things weren’t all peachy in the family unless you were wearing your rose colored glasses and pearls…

I’m not saying it never happened - obviously, it did. But if you were a Church-going person living in a working class or middle class neighborhood where people were mostly law-abiding, you would not have run across it - it would have been considered one of those things that “bad” people do, in a different part of town or else a different region of the country.

I thank God for the gift of IVF for my family and this wasn’t available 50 years ago …

It’s not God you have to thank for that, but Josef Mengele - his experiments on Jewish prisoners at Auschwitz and other internment camps are what give us these technologies. Personally, I wouldn’t go anywhere near it - I happen to like my gene pool, even with its “imperfections”.

 

[Calliso]

As your sister in Christ, please go get a physical. Please ask a couple of your girlfriends about their doctors and pick one to see. It is our duty to take care of our bodies–fantastic gifts from our Lord.

God Bless!

I know I need to just can;t get up the courage. But might be going soon whether I want to or not. My husband says I AM going to the doctor so I got the feeling that sooner or later he is going to drag me there. And I donlt really have much in the way of girlfriends in fact I have one person I would call a girl friend and we live in different states.

 

[TLara]

emeraldcoast, I guess I wouldn’t expect you to understand the Evil nature of B.C. If I recall correctly it was the 1930 Lambeth Conference that the Anglican church became the first Christian community to allow birth control… think about that, of all the Christians throughout the world it wasn’t until 1930 that it was allowed in your church. so lets see, the Anglican church was the first to

1. allow divorce and remarriage.( how you were founded)
2. allow for the use of B.C.
3. allow for gay marriage.
4. allow for women in the priesthood.
5. allow for married gay Bishops.

until you get rid of the things mentioned above you will always be blind to the truth as was laid down by Christ. you will continue to separate yourself from Christ, to live in mortal sin you cut all ways to receive grace form God.

 

[BlestOne]

Here is my attempt to get this thread back on track…

Chemical means of BC kill babies after conception…for anyone to be able to call themselves a christian and think the pill is OK is beyond me. Children and babies are the most vulnerable and innocent in our society. They are in need of our protection. From very early on in a pregnancy, the baby has it’s own unique DNA and blood. It is a separate being so to abort is to kill an innocent child… I can just hear some of you screaming at your monitors as you read this, “Wait, what about rape?” So here goes… why would you kill an innocent child because you were violated? That child didn’t violate you! Sure prosecute the heck out of the rapist, but don’t kill an innocent life because you were hurt. Studies show that women who are impregnated due to rape and choose to keep their babies heal from the trauma much better and quicker than women who get abortions from rape.

There is a young lady at my parish who was raped and found herself pregnant. She kept her baby even though she was a junior in high school… I am so proud of her! She loves her child and she is a testament to God’s love. It is amazing to see her with her child… and even she admits that this wasn’t what she planned but so much better than her plan. She knows God has a purpose and she is surrendering her will to HIM.

What has a child ever done to receive the death sentence NOTHING!

Now about choices and being pro-choice: Choices are made before actions are taken… you choose to take the chance of getting pregnant before the HPT is positive… you choose when you choose to have sex. You know it is possible to become pregnant even with birth control… the choice is made when you decide that you want to have sex!

 

[Princess18]

Chemical means of BC kill babies after conception…for anyone to be able to call themselves a christian and think the pill is OK is beyond me.

Does anybody know offhand of any journal articles that I can get my hands on that document this? Someone said that it was written on the insert for their BC pills but I don’t have any of those, so …

I think that perhaps some of our chemical BC-using Christian sisters just don’t realize that they are potentially killing their future children. If we can show them scientific documentation, then perhaps they’d change their stance (at least the pro-life ones might anyway). Sure, we can argue all day long that “no ABC” is or isn’t in the Bible, but “Thou shalt not kill” definitely is. I know some very pro-life, scripture-quoting Protestants who are happily on the pill. I think it may just be misinformation or passive ignorance.

 

[Jennifer_J]

ortho-mcneilpharmaceutical.com/ortho-mcneilpharmaceutical/shared/pi/cycltri.pdf#zoom=100
<<CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY
Oral Contraception
Combination oral contraceptives act by suppression of gonadotropins. Although the primary mechanism of this
action is inhibition of ovulation, other alterations include changes in the cervical mucus (which increase the
difficulty of sperm entry into the uterus) and the endometrium (which reduce the likelihood of implantation).>>

This is from ortho tri-cyclen insert.

 

[NeedImprovement]

I don’t know if this is exactly the type of info you’re looking for princess 18 :

quiverfull.com/birth_control/pill_abortifacient.html