Birth control and non-Catholics

[bobzills]

Artificial charts! How are they artificial? .

They are manmade and do not occur in nature without the intervention of man. Similarly, the birth control pill is man made and does not occur in nature without the intervention of man. Bot are man made creations.
Similarly with thermometers. They are man made creations. Thermometers do not occur in nature without the intervention of man.

 

[beckyx5]

They are manmade and do not occur in nature without the intervention of man. Similarly, the birth control pill is man made and does not occur in nature without the intervention of man. Bot are man made creations.
Similarly with thermometers. They are man made creations. Thermometers do not occur in nature without the intervention of man.

OK, umm we are not actually talking about the charts (pen and paper) we are talking about what you put on the charts. The naturally occuring signs of a womans cycle. But, ok, if you want to go there, the charts (the actual paper) is probably also not artificial cuz paper is made from trees !

 

[Jennifer_J]

I don;t see why it is off topic to discuss birth control. The topic as I understand it to be is Birth control and non-Catholics. What I am getting at is that NFP, when used to avoid conception, is just another method available to prevent children. Those who back the use of NFP to prevent children often say that NFP is open to life as distinct from the use of condoms which are not open to life. However, according to the statistics given out by the Couple to couple league, condoms fail 7% of the time, whereas NFP, when used correctly, fails only 1% of the time. Would not these statistics on failure of use imply that condoms are seven times more open to life than NFP?
And we have the word of the Pope concerning the secondary and primary ends of marriage:
Pope Pius XI, Casti Connubii , Dec. 31, 1930: “For in matrimony as well as in the use of the matrimonial right there are also secondary ends, such as mutual aid, the cultivating of mutual love, and the quieting of concupiscence which husband and wife are not forbidden to consider SO LONG AS THEY ARE SUBORDINATED TO THE PRIMARY END and so long as the intrinsic nature of the act is preserved.”

You’ve missed the point again and I’m done arguing with someone that can’t see the forest for the trees. The topic of this thread was NONcatholics and Birthcontrol—NOT whether NFP is licit for Catholics to use…start your own thread and try to stay on topic…

 

[bobzills]

OK, umm we are not actually talking about the charts (pen and paper) we are talking about what you put on the charts. The naturally occuring signs of a womans cycle. But, ok, if you want to go there, the charts (the actual paper) is probably also not artificial cuz paper is made from trees !

What if a birth control pill contained only natural ingredients?
The point is that you are enjoying the marital embrace while doing everything you can to frustrate the primary purpose of marriage which is the procreation of children.

 

[Jennifer_J]

What if a birth control pill contained only natural ingredients?
The point is that you are enjoying the marital embrace while doing everything you can to frustrate the primary purpose of marriage which is the procreation of children.

For the last time on this thread. NFP doesn’t FRUSTRATE anything. It’s the use of a natural part of a woman’s cycle. Women are fertile about 4 days out of a 28-30 day cycle. If it’s licit to have relations any of those days (and it is, the Church doesn NOT teach that you can only have relations when a woman is fertile) than it is licit to chart your cycle and use those nonfertile days. You, as a human being are doing nothing immoral by charting and having sex or NOT having sex. Frustrating procreation means taking a pill, putting on a condom, inserting an IUD to make the uterus inhospitable to life, taking the morning after pill, inducing abortion, etc. NFP “preserves the intrisnic nature of the act” it is ordered toward procreation and is unitive, there is no barrier, the Church has said it is licit to use NFP for serious or just reasons–shouldn’t that be enough?

 

[bobzills]

The topic of this thread was NONcatholics and Birthcontrol—NOT whether NFP is licit for Catholics to use…start your own thread and try to stay on topic…

Well, I thought that it was Jennifer J who brought up the topic of the use of NFP in post #188, post # 198, post # 201, and post # 204. I did not mention NFP until post #205, well after your posts which had brought up the topic of NFP in post #188, post # 198, post # 201, and post # 204. Why is it off topic to comment on your posts?

 

[Jennifer_J]

Well, I thought that it was Jennifer J who brought up the topic of the use of NFP in post #188, post # 198, post # 201, and post # 204. I did not mention NFP until post #205, well after your posts which had brought up the topic of NFP in post #188, post # 198, post # 201, and post # 204. Why is it off topic to comment on your posts?

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

If this thread doesn’t get back on topic, it will be closed.

Let me remind you of the topic:

I’d be interested to know how many non-Catholics do not believe in using artificial birth control?..

…I’d be interested in knowing if any other non-Catholics have used NFP, and what you think of it. Also, do you have anti-birth control views as well?

**This family is Protestant and I KNOW they don’t believe in birth control! **http://www.duggarfamily.com

 

[Syele]

…I’d be interested in knowing if any other non-Catholics have used NFP, and what you think of it.

I have a book on NFP and have begun to learn to use it. IN My opinion as a non-Catholic it falls in the same category as condoms and other non-abortificant, non-hormone based Birth Control. I think it is ok only when there is a good reason.

 

[awantz]

I have a book on NFP and have begun to learn to use it. IN My opinion as a non-Catholic it falls in the same category as condoms and other non-abortificant, non-hormone based Birth Control. I think it is ok only when there is a good reason.

I agree.

 

[elts1956]

Oh I know that it doesnl;t move me at all either. If had been destoryed then I likely just wouldn;t exist. And if you donlt exist you can;t care much about not existing and being alive can you?

What has that got to do with conception?

 

[Laurent_LUG]

Laurent… I have 4 children of reproductive ages… 3 really who would be a concern…21 yo son, 18 yo son, 16 yo daughter and a non-dating 13 yo daughter. If any of them were to come to me and tell me they are going to be or could be a parent… whether mother or father… I would be disappointed that they did not wait until marriage but I would strongly discourage birth control (before the pregnancy) or abortion (after) because their immortal souls are more important than anything in the world to me…

(OFF-Topic ??)
What do you mean with immortal souls (in the whole content) ??

The point is… you don’t have sex unless you are grown up enough to accept that there may be a child.

On that point I agree for 100% !!
But that doesn’t make me against or anti-birth control !!
You’ll never know your kids that perfect !!
Or what about prostitution ??
(Even this is absolutely not the real thing !!)

Believer or not:
It maybe sounds stupid or weird , but …
some people can hold their needs !! (no matter their age)
In such cases , it’s better to prevent than cure !!
You’ll never know the full history of the “partner” !!

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), august 31, 2008

 

[Calliso]

What has that got to do with conception?

Because if I or anyone else for that matter was not conceived then we would certainly not know we were not conceived right? Otherwise not really sure what your asking of me here…

 

[jmcrae]

Oh I know that it doesnl;t move me at all either. If had been destoryed then I likely just wouldn;t exist. And if you donlt exist you can;t care much about not existing and being alive can you?

If you had been killed after the time of conception, you would certainly be aware and awake, with God. You would know and remember your short few days on earth, inside your mother.

 

[jmcrae]

NFP raises the question of the morality of inducing early embryonic death.
Even a policy of practising condom usage and having an abortion in case of failure would cause fewer embryonic deaths than the rhythm method, according to an article by Luc Bovens, in the Journal of Medical Ethics, (vol 32, p 355).

In the first place, NFP is not the rhythm method - the only thing they have in common is that the Church does not oppose them.

NFP cannot possibly “cause” embryonic death, and neither can the rhythm method (also called the “calendar method”).

NFP is simply a catch-all for a set of methods for observing the woman’s cycle. (The rhythm method assumes that all women’s cycles are the same, which is why it doesn’t work - there is no observation involved; just counting of days on a calendar.)

What one does with the information that is obtained by various methods of NFP is a private matter - some use it to conceive a child right away, and others use it to avoid conception, and others find it interesting to know without having it affect their sexual behaviour at all.

It is not possible to conceive a child naturally and have it not be in a safe and nurturing environment - if the environment is “hostile” it is either because the woman is not fertile (meaning that no child could have been conceived) or else she is on hormonal drugs, such as the birth control pill.

 

[pattynicole]

After years of using birth control pills I am now against them. Some may think, “how convenient!”. Not really for my soul or my moral conscience though. I recently learned that the back up plan for MOST BCP is an abortificant. If plan A doesn’t work then plan B is…an abortion. And I never knew it. How many babies did I possibly kill in my lifetime?

I wasn’t sure how I felt about contraception but I DID know how I felt about abortion.

 

[Syele]

After years of using birth control pills I am now against them. Some may think, “how convenient!”. Not really for my soul or my moral conscience though. I recently learned that the back up plan for MOST BCP is an abortificant. If plan A doesn’t work then plan B is…an abortion. And I never knew it. How many babies did I possibly kill in my lifetime?

I wasn’t sure how I felt about contraception but I DID know how I felt about abortion.

Well said. And how many people use them every day and have no Idea what they actually do?

 

[awantz]

Well said. And how many people use them every day and have no Idea what they actually do?

Yes. Agreed. That used to be me a few years back.