Birth control dissenter

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From: lambethconference.org/resolutions/1930/1930-15.cfm (bolding mine)

*Resolutions from 1930
Resolution 15

The Life and Witness of the Christian Community - Marriage and Sex

Where there is clearly felt moral obligation to limit or avoid parenthood, the method must be decided on Christian principles. The primary and obvious method is complete abstinence from intercourse (as far as may be necessary) in a life of discipline and self-control lived in the power of the Holy Spirit. Nevertheless in those cases where there is such a clearly felt moral obligation to limit or avoid parenthood, and where there is a morally sound reason for avoiding complete abstinence, the Conference agrees that other methods may be used, provided that this is done in the light of the same Christian principles. The Conference records its strong condemnation of the use of any methods of conception control from motives of selfishness, luxury, or mere convenience.

Voting: For 193; Against 67.*

From: anglicanhistory.org/gore/contra1930.html

Innocent III admitted that ‘it sometimes happens that the Church looses one whom God has bound, and binds by the judgement of the Church one who in God’s sight is free’;

I have tried to conform myself to Church teaching on artificial birth control. I have read and studied, tried to understand why, and to see the reasoning behind the teaching.

I cannot, in good conscience, agree with the Catholic Church that artificial birth control, in and of itself, is intrinsically immoral or evil. Some forms of it may be, some reasons for using it may be, but it’s just not so black and white.

I cannot tell you how many threads I have read on these boards full of pain, sorrow, despair, anger, and sadness, because trying to practice NFP has destroyed marriages. Use whatever semantic tool you wish to deflect that, but it is NFP itself which is the ruin of what might otherwise have been loving, happy, lifelong marriages.

Paul IV was indeed prescient in some of his predictions of the societal depravity we face today. But saying they came about because, and only because, of the widespread acceptance and use of artificial birth control is a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc, IMO. I think it may be a contributor, but any scientific or medical breakthrough can be used morally or immorally.

In the quote above from the Lambeth Conference, it speaks of morally sound reasons for avoiding complete abstinence. I think the biggest one of those is preserving the marriage for the benefit of the children. Sometimes it seems to me that some Catholics get so caught up in how or whether children get conceived that they forget just what it takes to raise those precious little people once they are here. I can tell you without doubt or reservation that continued attempts to practice NFP, in which I was well-educated, would have led to the utter destruction of my marriage. You can call that selfish, depraved, or say we are too focused on sex. But I call it respecting the fact of our high sex drives and need to express our love and desire with spontaneity and joy. If people can achieve those things using only natural methods, well, more power to you. You are a stronger and better person than me, and I have no doubt that God will reward your forbearance and fortitude while I am being purified of all my weaknesses in Purgatory! But not everyone can achieve that, and where there is any doubt at all, I think the couple should be free to choose for themselves. As the Church has not proclaimed this infallibly, there must be at least some doubt. No matter how tiny…

Another problem I have with this teaching is that I think my moral obligation to human life begins only after it actually exists. I am against abortion and euthanasia… I am pro-life. But there has to be life there first. I do not, on moral grounds and because of side effects, use hormonal birth control. I am absolutely convinced that most, if not all, hormonal birth control has the potential to be abortifacient. Life begins at conception… no argument there. However, I have no moral problem with non-spermicidal barrier methods or with sterilization. These things only PREVENT conception! There is no obligation to protect a life that never existed. I see a moral equivalency between keeping the egg and sperm from meeting through periodic abstinence and by using barriers. I know that the argument is that one violates the integrity of the marital act and one does not. Well, so, big deal. No one is getting killed… I just find this insistence on mechanical integrity frankly a bit absurd and really distasteful. As the vast majority of sperm end up trying to fertilize the wrong thing or dying even in the most technically perfect sexual act, obviously the “waste” of sperm is not as huge a deal as some would make of it.

(continued in next post…)
 
(too long for one post)

I know that I have little support here, and that I will probably get flamed and told I am not really a Catholic. I realize that… but my heart is in the Catholic Church and so am I every week. I just think that while the Catholic Church has the fullness of the Truth about Jesus Christ and the Eucharist and practically everything else, on this one point, this one moral teaching, the Anglicans are ahead of us. The statement I quoted from the Lambeth Conference of 1930 is reasonable, gives freedom to the couple to make their own decision, calls them to do so in light of Christian principles, and acknowledges that the fact that some couples may not be able to live up to the standard of the Catholic Church, and that it’s not necessarily a moral failing that that is true. That competing moral aims exist.

Birth control is a tool, and the motivation behind its use and the mechanisms it employs are what matter.

And if even a Pope (quote from Innocent III) admits the Church might have made mistakes on moral teachings in the past… well, then why can’t I think that might be the case here?
 
I know that I have little support here, and that I will probably get flamed…
Well, before everyone starts jumping on you, let me say that we are in agreement. 👍

I hope you’re wearing your flame-proof suit.
 
Well thank God there is someone else who would be considered less than perfect from what the Catholic Church espouses. Whilst I believe in the ideal of what this catholic document teaches, so many of us fall far short of it. I also am aghast at the number of posters on here whose seemingly otherwise good marriage is falling apart over this one issue. For the sake of a possible pregnancy, other family members needs (not wants) are being totally discarded (ie.spouses and other children). This is not to mention the physical and mental health of the mother.😛

Grant you, I have seen a number of posters here who seem to be able to work this NFP down pat. You will all obviously all have many heavenly rewards for doing so. 🙂

Thank you for being so bold to post this Basilisk, I also agree with the points you make reference to as well. If this makes me uncatholic, then perhaps I don’t really realize just how catholic I probably am! 😃

now let the flaming begin:(
 
I will not flame anyone here but just from what I gather, it seems as if you are saying that since we fall short of being perfect, the church should relax the teaching?? Maybe that is a generalization but that is how it sounded as I skimmed the posts. Forgive me if I misunderstood.

We do fall short from being perfect by all the Church standards, but that is the beauty of the faith. It is perfect and we should strive to be. We should not hope for the teachings to be easier because we know some of us will fail. God bless everyone for being honest in your concerns. I will pray that those who are in disagreement with the Church will come to terms with the issue somehow.
 
I will not flame anyone here but just from what I gather, it seems as if you are saying that since we fall short of being perfect, the church should relax the teaching?? Maybe that is a generalization but that is how it sounded as I skimmed the posts. Forgive me if I misunderstood.

We do fall short from being perfect by all the Church standards, but that is the beauty of the faith. It is perfect and we should strive to be. We should not hope for the teachings to be easier because we know some of us will fail. God bless everyone for being honest in your concerns. I will pray that those who are in disagreement with the Church will come to terms with the issue somehow.
Thank you for being open to discuss this. I will never declare that the church is wrong about this, I think it is the ideal that we should all strive towards. Like children (hence my username), some of us are just not that competent at achieving such ideals in our individual circumstances. We are all on a learning curve in our faith journeys. Would I simply cast one of my children aside because they could not obey what I deemed correct for their learning. Of course not!! I would gently keep co-ercing them in the right pathway but still be accepting of them regardless of what they wern’t able to achieve. This does not automatically assume that what I am teaching them is necessarily wrong. It is the measure of where I would like my children to rise up to. If there were no measures in place, we would have anarchy on our hands, and this, by far, is more dangerous. Hope this clarifies my point of view more.
 
I too have problems with the teaching on birth control. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I am convert ( maybe not? ) and grew up in a very secular world… birth control was shoved in my face at public school and practically everyone I grew up with had only one other sibling… It just seems like it is one of those issues that is very difficult to accept in our modern times. But being a Catholic is not about living in modern times I guess… It is timeless and that is what initially drew me to the church.

I didn’t really think much about birth control when I converted at 19. Now that I have married a non Catholic… it is the most daunting issue I think about. I think all of us in the church have issues that we think about and pray about depending on what time in our life it is. Can you imagine how many people struggle with masturbation as well? Or missing mass… or annulments/divorce… or fornication… the list goes on!
 
The old saying goes, “Hard cases make for bad law.”

It surely is true that in our culture especially, it seems NFP is an insurmountable roadblock for some people.

Taking a step back though, why is it that it seem like this is one of the only issues where people are willing to use the logic “It’s really hard and painful to obey, so the Church must be wrong.”

Surely homosexuals also face cruel hardship in living chastely, perhaps that is why they use the same logic to overturn doctrine.

Those whose marriage suffered a divorce, but could not reasonably determine a defect that existed from the start of the marriage also face a hard obedience of loneliness, or they often choose dissent.

Those suffering degenerative diseases must find support for embryonic stem cell research awfully tempting too.

My point is we really don’t have a good understanding of why there is suffering in the world. If you thought I was going to flame you, sorry. I’m in no position to cast stones because I have plenty of my own sinfulness weighing me down.

There are areas of my life where I don’t obey well - and I have far less mitigating circumstances than some of you. But we don’t answer for our sins to each other. We answer for them to God.

I’m blessed in that I only find it mildly difficult to live under the restrictions of NFP. Perhaps that’s because I’ve never known anything else or because my wife has never disrupted her cycle with hormones and IUDs and whatnot. I do believe that NFP is like a canary in a coal mine: It doesn’t save your marriage, it only gives you warning if you have impending issues in your marriage. If NFP is effective for you in spacing kids like it is for us and you still can’t live under its restrictions, beware - your canary is dead.
 
Thank you for being open to discuss this. I will never declare that the church is wrong about this, I think it is the ideal that we should all strive towards. Like children (hence my username), some of us are just not that competent at achieving such ideals in our individual circumstances. We are all on a learning curve in our faith journeys. Would I simply cast one of my children aside because they could not obey what I deemed correct for their learning. Of course not!! I would gently keep co-ercing them in the right pathway but still be accepting of them regardless of what they wern’t able to achieve. This does not automatically assume that what I am teaching them is necessarily wrong. It is the measure of where I would like my children to rise up to. If there were no measures in place, we would have anarchy on our hands, and this, by far, is more dangerous. Hope this clarifies my point of view more.
I understand your analogy but you wouldn’t be “teaching” your children to do something “wrong” in place of what is right. You’d be accepting the best they could maybe give you at that point until they get it right. You aren’t saying “well, it is not ok to hit other kids, but since you don’t understand that, you can lightly pinch them for now”…know what I mean. They should still not pinch the other kids. It still seems that the argument is that the church, in teaching what is wrong and only allowing what is right, should allow one to do “lesser wrongs” since they are not perfect enough to do what is right.

I’m so non controversial so I hope I don’t affend anyone on here. I hope you don’t take my posts the wrong way. I won’t be able to post anymoe as I’m leaving work and won’t be back on the computer until tomorrow morning. I’m sure someone else will be able to pick up where I’ve left off. I hope you maybe get a better understanding of the teaching though. You may find that it is just plain ole HARD to be a perfect Catholic and that is ok to admit that we are not and never will be. But please don’t stop trying and pray on this. God knows how to show you and help you accept what he teaches through His church, even if it is tough. 🙂 Have a good evening.
 
Our worldliness and lack of trust in God is what prompts us to contracept.

The Church would be wrong to suggest that it is okay. You may consider yourself a Catholic, but, you will never achieve holiness so long as you have a contraceptive mentality. It says, no, I don’t trust in you, God, and your work is not worth my time and sacrifice.

What do you want? A medal?
 
babes and diosa… I struggle with that as well. Should the Church relax an ideal because practically no one can live up to it? (Studies show a 90% contraception rate among Catholics.)

I respect WHY the teaching is there. I find the reasoning behind it less than convincing. It seems circular and tortured in some places.

My main problem is not with the fact that the Church teaches it per se, but that we get told that no matter what, we are going to HELL if we use a condom or get our tubes tied. The way some people talk about it, there is no such thing as mitigated culpability or constraint of will by outside forces… seemingly this is the only sin where that is true. And not just laypeople… representatives of the Church too seem to be sorely lacking in understanding, compassion, and acknowledging the near impossibility of what they are asking.

But then, part of why I like the Catholic Church is that they don’t shrink from calling sin, sin. They don’t mince words where it’s really important. And if the Church has reason to believe that by being silent, they would allow souls to go to Hell, then I can see that they are obligated to speak.

I feel my failure. I regret it. I am saddened that I could not welcome more children into this world.

At the same time, when I see a thread where someone is telling us of the wreckage of their marriage from NFP, and one of the first responses is, “Have you taken an NFP class with your spouse?” I just want to rip my hair out with how uncompassionate and ineffective that is! There just has to be a better way than basically telling people they must sacrifice their marriages, and perhaps their children’s stable home, in the name of the mechanical integrity of the sexual act. How is that moral? Because spouses do get left over this, or marriages turn bitter, cold, and toxic… and how is that doing right by the kids? There must be a middle ground… I don’t pretend to know exactly where it is.
 
, you will never achieve holiness
This is really extremely presumptive of you. If I work with all my heart, strength, and soul to achieve holiness in other ways, how do you know that God will not allow me to be successful? Who are you to tell God that He cannot allow me to achieve holiness in other ways and through penance and true sorrow over my weakness and failing?
 
(too long for one post)

I know that I have little support here, and that I will probably get flamed and told I am not really a Catholic. I realize that… but my heart is in the Catholic Church and so am I every week. I just think that while the Catholic Church has the fullness of the Truth about Jesus Christ and the Eucharist and practically everything else, on this one point, this one moral teaching, the Anglicans are ahead of us. The statement I quoted from the Lambeth Conference of 1930 is reasonable, gives freedom to the couple to make their own decision, calls them to do so in light of Christian principles, and acknowledges that the fact that some couples may not be able to live up to the standard of the Catholic Church, and that it’s not necessarily a moral failing that that is true. That competing moral aims exist.

Birth control is a tool, and the motivation behind its use and the mechanisms it employs are what matter.

And if even a Pope (quote from Innocent III) admits the Church might have made mistakes on moral teachings in the past… well, then why can’t I think that might be the case here?
I don’t really agree with the church’s prohibition against barrier methods of birth-control. However as a Catholic I accept it and just figure that I’ve not yet been able to fully understand why they teach what they do. I am past the age where birth-control is an issue and I will admit it’s a lot easier to deal with this in the abstract.
 
I understand your analogy but you wouldn’t be “teaching” your children to do something “wrong” in place of what is right. You’d be accepting the best they could maybe give you at that point until they get it right. You aren’t saying “well, it is not ok to hit other kids, but since you don’t understand that, you can lightly pinch them for now”…know what I mean. They should still not pinch the other kids. It still seems that the argument is that the church, in teaching what is wrong and only allowing what is right, should allow one to do “lesser wrongs” since they are not perfect enough to do what is right.

I’m so non controversial so I hope I don’t affend anyone on here. I hope you don’t take my posts the wrong way. I won’t be able to post anymoe as I’m leaving work and won’t be back on the computer until tomorrow morning. I’m sure someone else will be able to pick up where I’ve left off. I hope you maybe get a better understanding of the teaching though. You may find that it is just plain ole HARD to be a perfect Catholic and that is ok to admit that we are not and never will be. But please don’t stop trying and pray on this. God knows how to show you and help you accept what he teaches through His church, even if it is tough. 🙂 Have a good evening.
Point taken. However, I would never encourage any negative behaviour in my children. I would constantly bring them back into what is the expectation. Certainly rules and teachings have their proper place in both the church and society, otherwise we would have anarchy on our hands, as I mentioned. However, Jesus commands us (law) to love above all else (spirit of the law). Would it be better for those struggling with this issue to leave the church (or their faith) over this one issue (God forbid!!!) Where we fail, there is love and forgiveness. This does not relax the teaching, only bringing the reality of it, to us, less than perfect, creatures!
 
I don’t mean this as a flame at all and I sympathize with your struggle.

But I do not believe that NFP has destroyed any marriage that did not already have problems. It may have hastened or highlighted problems but I am just not buying the idea that without NFP these marriages would be perfect. As someone put it earlier, these are “seemingly good marriages”. There is something under the surface that is wrong and NFP brings it out.

I also believe, that even if I grant you the premise that NFP may be bad for some marriages, contraception is infinately worse. The number of marriages that have been destroyed by contraception and the contraceptive mentality is far greater.

And no one gets “cast out” from the Church for using contraception. That’s just drama.
 
Would it be better for those struggling with this issue to leave the church (or their faith) over this one issue (God forbid!!!) Where we fail, there is love and forgiveness. This does not relax the teaching, only bringing the reality of it, to us, less than perfect, creatures!
AMEN!!! This is why I have such a problem with the people, on this board and elsewhere, who reflexively tell people they are not real Catholics if they fail in this area. What other sin are we kicking people out of the Church over? And if we kick out all the sinners… uh, who’s left? And isn’t it a sin of pride to say to yourself, “I belong in the Church and those people don’t!” Wasn’t it Jesus himself who criticized the person who prayed, “Thank God I am not like those people!”?

We need the Church because we are sinners. Some people need to remember that when they are going on about people needing to leave the Church if they disagree with this. There is a TINY list of things one can do which result in automatic excommunication. Notice how contraception is NOT on that list? And if, I am willing to admit, through some defect in ourselves or our reasoning, we do not believe we are committing mortal sin, and so do not confess it or abstain from Eucharist… but trying in every other way to live as good Catholics and follow Jesus… you are saying we should forsake all that, or be kicked out, because we fail in this one area?
 
There is a big difference between the statement “I have a terrible difficulty in submitting my will to God’s in sexual matters” and the statement “The Church is dead wrong on this and I don’t have to listen to her.”

Very few people will flame you for the first statement. Lots will ignite the burner for the second (possibly justifiably). I’m also convinced that you are exaggerating the consequences (automatic hell) of the official teaching. It is taught as grave matter, not the unforgiveable sin. That doesn’t always make it mortal sin. The reason it gets so much forceful attention is not because people have a hard time with it, but because they attempt to UNDERMINE the actual teaching. To make their sins not sins anymore. It is the grave duty of the Church to defend true teachings against attacks.

Surely you tell lies from time to time. Sadly I have too. Are we going straight to hell? Is it unforgiveable? No. But it IS inherently and always sinful. It just isn’t controversial because there isn’t a movement trying to “destigmatize” it.

It is a VERY reasonable question to ask posters if they have ever had decent training in how to practice NFP. It is reasonable because many people I have discussed the matter with have NOT ever really made a serious effort into understanding the woman’s cycle and working with it. It’s not that we propose that as a fix, it is the first question you have to ask to establish a baseline for what you are dealing with. Some have tried REALLY hard to do things right, others haven’t. You can’t tell them apart without asking.
 
At the same time, when I see a thread where someone is telling us of the wreckage of their marriage from NFP, and one of the first responses is, “Have you taken an NFP class with your spouse?” I just want to rip my hair out with how uncompassionate and ineffective that is! There just has to be a better way than basically telling people they must sacrifice their marriages, and perhaps their children’s stable home, in the name of the mechanical integrity of the sexual act. How is that moral? Because spouses do get left over this, or marriages turn bitter, cold, and toxic… and how is that doing right by the kids? There must be a middle ground… I don’t pretend to know exactly where it is.
I’m one of these cold heartless people that asks that question. 😉 And I stand by it being a valid question. Some people turn up here who honestly don’t understand the rules of NFP, or have never had proper instruction, or never had a spouse attend classes with them. Obviously that doesn’t apply in all cases! I can’t speak for others but if I have ever posted that, it has been for the sake of clarity, not out of a lack of compassion. Just wanted to make that clear.

I do struggle with the Church’s teaching on contraception, especially when I see sad posts about NFP on this forum. I know there have been several people on here who have left the church over this and that breaks my heart. NFP was never intended to tear marriages apart or result in long periods of abstinence. I try to pray for each and every one of these people.

But I don’t agree that the Church should bend the rules. Look at what happened to Protestant denominations after the Lambeth Conference. I know some of them still teach that BC is okay only for serious reasons, but I feel they have fallen away from the teaching of “be fruitful and multiply” for the most part.

I also think it’s unfair to say the Catholic Church doesn’t care about the kids once they get here, only that they are conceived the “right way.” If that were true, the Church would not even give us the option of NFP. “Just have as many babies as you possibly can until you collapse” is NOT what the Church teaches at all! Not only is Church teaching clear about responsible parenthood, I see lots of loving moms and dads here who are doing their best to raise Godly children.

Nobody needs to be flaming anybody because there are doctrines we all struggle with. We are all sinners. I will pray for everyone who is struggling with this particular issue.
 
I also think it’s unfair to say the Catholic Church doesn’t care about the kids once they get here, only that they are conceived the “right way.”
To be clear, I criticized “some Catholics” for this, not the Catholic Church as an institution. You are right that the Church herself does not hold this view.
 
I agree, its not that I think “Oh this is hard so I shouldn’t do it”

Its that it doesn’t make sense to me, isn’t logical, isn’t reasonable. It feels like a contradiction to allow NFP, but not barrier methods.

Faith should be reasonable, and I don’t find this teaching reasonable.

However, I usually refrain from posting on any NFP threads, because I know I would just get flamed.
 
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