You do understand that NFP is quite different from the rythym method? And you do understand that not having sex when one is not prepared to have a baby is different from having sex and frustrating the end or goal of having sex? It’s like the difference between not stealing a car, and stealing a car and switching the plates; neither is caught, but one has committed 2 crimes and the other has not committed any.
Using NFP to avoid pregnancy requires *refraining from *sexual activity during the relevant time. So the couple is *not having *sex.
It can be–gluttony is one of the seven capital sins. But using abc (artificial birth control) would be like a person who vomits what has been eaten in order to eat more.
There will also be less life.
No that doesn’t work now, because they’re BOTH permitted to drive, so where’s the need for stealing?
Less life? Where do I begin? Less mothers? Less children as they’ve died through poverty brought about by being one of 18 children? Les life because the high population of a community can’t feed itself and therefore starves?
Yes, less life. Why? Because the solution proposed to the problems you bring up are to have fewer children.
If one wants to drive but has not car…
First, “we” are not interpreting anything. The Church teaches the law of the Creator.
You seem to be asking two separate questions here:
Fact is it’s wonderfully CHEAP and fairly simple to distribute contraceptives. You can do it by post! Apart from IUD’s, there is no need for a medic to hand them out. Other meds tend not to be so simple and they also require careful storage with refrigeration, sterilisation of equipment, training of personnel etc. And people ARE trying to provide this, more expensive help…and smaller communities are more sustainable and easier to help with a view to them being able to help themselves ultimately.
Still seems like both are stealing the car but the one accepts that he’ll have to pay for it ONLY if he gets caught. They both have the intention to enjoy the driving!!
Oh, I’m sorry, I must have written the analogy badly
nly one stole the car, the other one got a car legitimately (buying, borrowing with permission).Not necessarily more than anything else, but 2 points: one, sex is indeed a very important activity because it is a privelege of sharing in God’s creating of His highest creation. God could make us each Himself, but instead He allows us to share in this process.
There is a high rate of angst shown here for two reasons: 1. people who do not have angst don’t post about their lack of angst, and 2. people with problems come here to discuss them.
This has nothing ti do with power. The task of the Church is to help people attain Heaven and to avoid spending their eternities burning in Hell.
Sorry, this just is not borne out by any evidence of anything at all. An extremely small number of priests, many if whom should never have been allowed into the priesthood, were unable to do what the *vast *majority of priests do.
You believe… do you have any evidence?
And like other appetites needs to be governed by the will or by reason. When people do not govern their appetites, they generally end up sinning.
Have you noticed the difference in reception between an apparent glutton and a “player” like James Bond?
No, but many people eat too much despite its giving them terrible heartburn, gout, and obesity.
No, i think that you do not understand the meaning of the phrase “being open to life.” It does not mean that you are trying to conceive (which can also lead to difficulties and angst, as I have read here and elsewhere). Being open to life means that one recognizes, accepts, and respects the procreative aspect of marital activity. Using abc instead if refraining shows a lack of acceptance of this aspect.
God was very clear about His will wrt sexual activity.
Let’s look at what He actually says:
Sexual regulation by the church accounted for a great amount of literature and time. The church saw regulation as necessary to maintain the welfare of society.[21] Canon law banned premarital sex, lust, masturbation, adultery, bestiality, homosexuality, and any sort of sex outside of marriage. Adultery was broken up into various categories by the Statutes of Angers: prostitution and simple fornication, adultery, defloration of virgins, intercourse with nuns, incest, homosexuality, and incidental matters relating to sex such as looks, desires, touches, embraces, and kisses.[18] Adultery was typically grounds for divorce for a man if his wife fornicated with another, but adultery was not seen as a crime, just as a sin.[22] Prostitution, although within the category of fornication, was less concrete in the law. Because the medieval canon law originated as an “offshoot of moral theology” but also drew from Roman law, it contributed both legal and moral concepts to canonistic writing.[23] This split influence caused the treatment of prostitution to be more complex. Prostitution, although sinful, was tolerated. Without the availability of a prostitute, men could be lead to commit a different Anger: defloration of a virgin. It was better to tolerate prostitution with all of its associated evils, than to risk the perils which would follow the successful elimination of the harlot form society.[24] The church recognized sex as a natural inclination related to original sin, so sexual desires could not be ignored as a reality. Although the law attempted to strictly regulate prostitution, whorehouses abounded disguised as bathhouses or operated in secret within hotels and private residences. “Outside the official public brothels, prostitution in the public bathhouses, the inns and the taverns was common knowledge and was tolerated.[25]Oh, I’m sorry, I must have written the analogy badly
Not necessarily more than anything else, but 2 points: one, sex is indeed a very important activity because it is a privelege of sharing in God’s creating of His highest creation. God could make us each Himself, but instead He allows us to share in this process.
Second, we live in a time when the idea of the sinfulness of immoral sexual activity is completely lost, exchanged for the idea that sexual activity is practically a health necessity!
When the world looks at a problem, say, ebola in West Africa, does that mean there are no other problems in the world? No, it just means that ebola is a very *big *problem. In the same way, yes, gluttony is still a sin, but people are more aware of it as a problem.
There is a high rate of angst shown here for two reasons: 1. people who do not have angst don’t post about their lack of angst, and 2. people with problems come here to discuss them.
This has nothing ti do with power. The task of the Church is to help people attain Heaven and to avoid spending their eternities burning in Hell.
Sorry, this just is not borne out by any evidence of anything at all. An extremely small number of priests, many if whom should never have been allowed into the priesthood, were unable to do what the *vast *majority of priests do.
You believe… do you have any evidence?
And like other appetites needs to be governed by the will or by reason. When people do not govern their appetites, they generally end up sinning.
Have you noticed the difference in reception between an apparent glutton and a “player” like James Bond?
No, but many people eat too much despite its giving them terrible heartburn, gout, and obesity.
The point about throwing up to allow one to eat more is that forcing oneself to vomit is frustrating the end of eating. Eating is for nourishment. Getting rid if what one has eaten gets rid of the norusohment. By frustrating the end if eating in this way, one can eat more.
In the same way, using abc frustrates the end if sexual activity and allows one to partske more in the pleasure of the act.
No, i think that you do not understand the meaning of the phrase “being open to life.” It does not mean that you are trying to conceive (which can also lead to difficulties and angst, as I have read here and elsewhere). Being open to life means that one recognizes, accepts, and respects the procreative aspect of marital activity. Using abc instead if refraining shows a lack of acceptance of this aspect.
God was very clear about His will wrt sexual activity.
Let’s look at what He actually says:
St Matthew 22:36:
“‘Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law?’
Jesus said to him: ‘Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. This is the greatest and first commandment.’”
How do we love God? Christ said, “If you love me, you will obey my commanents.”
“‘And the second is like unto this: Thou shalt love they neighbor as thyself.’”
So we see that the first commandment is to love Gid, and that to love God is to obey Him. Loving our neighbor comes second, but is the most important law wrt earthly life.
First, this is someone’s opinion–there is no explanation as to how this opinion was reached, what it means, or what difference it makes.
And the point is…? Do we not have family law in the US? Do we not even have *special courts *for families in the US? (Sorry, I’m assuming that you are American, but I am unfamiliar with what occurs in other nations, so I can only use the US as an example.)
The issue of prostitution is often used as an example of what the Church sees as tolerance. Will the evils that result from probibition outweigh the goods obtained?
News break! Catholic Church recognizs that sinners sin!
Wow, sounds like what pretty much every society has gone through with prostitution.
At a time when many women suffered from miscarriage and problems eith childbirth and very little was known medically about how or why things were happening, this can also be seen as a move to protect women rather than to put people under someone’s thumb.
Even I was cautioned about this by my non-Catholic medical practitioners.
All of these were fast days–food was also very “regulated” during these times as well.
As it still does. And in fact as Western nations continued to do until withon my children’s lifetimes.
Since the source of this information referenced a book to which I do not have access, I would postulate about this last “regulation” that the married couple was dispensed from Mass attendance because they were on their “honeymoon,” (a phrase we believe did not come into existence until later). Women also are dispensed from Mass attendance for a period of time after they go through childbirth.
Quote: Since the source of this information referenced a book to which I do not have access, I would postulate about this last “regulation” that the married couple was dispensed from Mass attendance because they were on their “honeymoon,” (a phrase we believe did not come into existence until later). Women also are dispensed from Mass attendance for a period of time after they go through childbirth.
The Church does not justify prostitution this way; it *tolerates *prostitution at times when it seems necessary to do so.
I have seen many different things written in many different history books… some contradictory. Hmmmm (can you believe that I misspelled hmmmm according to my spell-checker? Five m’s and it’s wrong!)
What method of abc is it that the church tolerates? Surely with Aids in Africa it is tolerated?
Well that’s a Catholic website…what would I expect to hear?
In the second post of this thread, on the first page, there is a little blue square with an arrow in it next to Kelt’s name in the innermost quoted text. I would link it here for you but this device is not very good at that.
To be fair, most of the issues mentioned in that quote are directly related to population.