Birth Control Issue

[vera_dicere]

She is against it, with the common exceptions of to save the mothers life and rape. It is depressing to see relationships thrown into turmoil but at the same time I would have an issue with BC even if the church didn’t teach it was bad. The risk of side-effects does not warrant it. Yes, I am sure many women take it with no problem at all but asking a person make the risk only for enjoyments sake does not sit well with my personal code of honor as a human being. Condoms may not have side-effects but they aren’t too reliable either. NFP is certainly better than latex.

Are you and her aware that 54% of abortions are sought by women who were using contraception in the month they fell pregnant?

Say you marry this lady, you have your two kids, and then she starts popping the pill. Focused on her career and one day finds herself pregnant? Its so very easy to justify that abortion, she’s got two kids and the finanical pressure of one more would take from them, it’d take her attention from them, it’d damage her career’s progression, and besides, she was on the pill! She tried to stop getting pregnant! She was beign responsible!

A lot of so called “catholics” have this mindset. Contraception breeds a mindset ripe for abortion. It wouldn’t be hard for her to then spend the afternoon at the clinic while you’re busy changing diapers thinking she’s out for coffee.

Not slandering her, but I’ve seen this happen in other couples. Its not a good path to get on.

What if she decides on the IUD, or the implant or even sterilisation?

You can only do so much to change her mind, and with her friends and family members offering anti-NFP antedoctes, you’re really fighting an uphill battle. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try though.

My advice, for what its worth, don’t marry her until you’ve sorted this. LIke really sorted this. She could say “yeah, I agree with you, lets use NFP” and then most marriage start popping those pills; having never reached the mindset to be opposed to contraception.

Perhaps if you did break off the engagement, and tell her bluntly why, it could act as a motivator for her to really investigate why contraception is such a dispicable, intolerable evil.

The “pro-life with exceptions” is also quite concerning, as its so illogical its an easy door to open to full fledged abortion support.

**Oh, yeah, pray for her too. **

 

[silentfactor80]

This.

:sad_yes:

The militant attitude is a huge problem. Edit: I see you have already reached the conclusion that you will have to break off the engagement. I’m so sorry, but when two people disagree on this issue, it’s going to cause pain down the road. If you want my story, I’ll give you a synopsis.

I would very much appreciate to hear your story. These days every bit of wisdom helps.

 

[The_Bucket]

I think suicide and choosing not to have kids are two very different things. Not a good comparison in my book. In any case though I do agree with the rest of what you said. The problem though is I have seen many faithful parents end up with the rottenest kids. Just being faithful yourself doesn’t guarantee you will have God-loving kids.

I certainly will pray about it before making any harsh decisions. One thing I am worried about now though is she will agree not to take and do so anyway. Perhaps this is my own issue but starting a marriage off with a lack of trust is never good.

I see a lot of good in many of your posts, but I think the first part here is a non-starter. As a married person, I’m called to bring life into this world and to do my best to raise children to be servants of God. But you’re right, sometimes it doesn’t work out no matter how hard a God-fearing parent works. Does that mean we should stop trying? That’s nonsensical. Just because you can’t guarantee a certain outcome doesn’t mean you don’t take a chance on it. Should people stop opening businesses because they could fail? Should people stop asking one another out on dates because they might be rejected? Should society just come to a halt because things might not work out the way we all planned it? No, no and no.

I as a married man have the responsibility and obligation to, if God wills it, bring life into the world. I should not abdicate that responsibility just because my kids might end up being heathens. I’ve got two now and a third on the way. So far, they’re fantastic. They might all end up breaking my heart and becoming terrible or they might end up being great saints. Probably somewhere in the middle is most likely as it’s the most likely case for all of us. Don’t despair!

The second paragraph is where I definitely concur. You can’t start out a marriage wondering if your wife might go behind your back and do grave injury to her soul. We can never guarantee outcomes; there’s no guarantee she’d remain faithful or not take birth control or completely lose her faith and stop going to church. There’s never any guarantee. But starting out with these doubts? Not a great foundation, you are right.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

I could accommodate 3 but no more than that. I also do not mind abstaining. I think a great deal of bonding occurs when you have to find creative ways to express love.

In addition to praying about your current dilemma, I would like to suggest that you also pray about your own view on children. Ask God to help you view children (and marriage) with his eyes, and ask him to help you want what He wants. This will help you in terms of understanding if you should get married, to her, or to someone else, and it will also help you think about how many children you could possibly “accommodate.” Make this a regular prayer. Remember “Thy Will be done.”

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I would very much appreciate to hear your story. These days every bit of wisdom helps.

Let me just say that when we married (civilly) my husband and I were in complete agreement about contraception and religion. We used contraception and we had no religion. I’d been using contraception since I was 15 and did not believe it to be sinful. I was thoroughly lapsed and so was he. We were pretty sure we wanted children, but of course it was going to be in our time and we would choose how many. That’s similar to your situation with your fiancee.

And then, once we decided it was time and went off birth control, our sexual intimacy was nothing short of amazing. I’d never had sex without contraception. Wow. And this was when we were still secular! Looking back, all I can say is that the Church has it right. Putting a barrier between husband and wife and God messes things up to the nth degree.

Anyway, sorry for the digression. Unlike many women who have used contraception for a decade or more, I got pregnant almost right away. I was very lucky, because I was 33 as well, pretty old for a first baby. I had severe morning sickness for 3 mos. and was very concerned for the baby’s development, since I’d also been a vegetarian for 10 years by then, and hadn’t been careful about protein balance. Babies need a lot of protein to develop properly, and I couldn’t eat very much at all. Out of desperation, I started to pray. I didn’t share that with my husband, knowing he’d scoff at me. But being pregnant and giving birth changed my life, completely. The person I had been no longer existed. I knew without a doubt that God was real and that I had to get back to Church. It was shocking and powerful. I get tears in my eyes even now, just thinking of it. Thank you Holy Spirit! But I digress again.

From that time until now (23 years married, 13 in the Church), my husband and I have disagreed about children. We just had another discussion about it on Sunday that left me in tears. Now it’s about our sons - he said he hoped they wouldn’t take on my beliefs about children (the more, the merrier!) and I told him that they understand the Church’s stance on birth control. He said children are expensive; I told him children are a blessing and God’s gift to us. There was more but I won’t go into it. We got such a late start to have our children that after our 2nd son, I couldn’t have any more. But I wouldn’t have been opposed to adoption even then. But he is a “2 and no more” type of person. I am sure he would not have been happy if I’d gotten pregnant again. We did continue to use contraception after our first but we got pregnant anyway (thank you Lord!). We were planning to try again but not right then! LOL

We had amniocentesis for the first baby but not the second - by then I knew I would never be able to abort a baby for any reason period. I do not know what I would have done if the tests had showed an abnormality with our first. I know that my husband would have lobbied hard for abortion, and if there had been something wrong, he might not have stayed with us. I thank God that He spared me from the pain of having an abortion. I am not sure I’d have been strong enough at that point to stand up to the pressure.

I don’t mean to detract from my husband. He’s a good man, but away from God. When you put God back into the equation, and the Church, life just straightens out. When you take God out, and put your own ideas in, things go awry in so many ways. I’m sure he wouldn’t have meant to be so heartless, but the society has influenced him and he believes the lies wholeheartedly. Like your fiancee, he has a plan and it’s all about him and what he wants and what he can do, not what God has planned for him.

I know that being a mother was my vocation. And I am still in mourning for the babies I didn’t have. Since I was a little girl, I have imagined a house full of children, music, noise, and love. I wasn’t able to get there, but I thank God for the 2 wonderful sons that I do have. I pray that they will embrace ALL of God’s blessings in their lives, as many children as they can love and care for.

I would not advise people to marry who are not in agreement on contraception and children. No, never. Again, God changed the terms of my marriage and now we are unequally yoked, although both of us are baptized and sacramental Catholics. You’d be in a similar position starting out, as your fiancee does not accept Church teaching on contraception. Yes, God can change hearts, but there is no guarantee. There IS a guarantee of pain for the spouse who recognizes the sins.

 

[silentfactor80]

Let me just say that when we married (civilly) my husband and I were in complete agreement about contraception and religion. We used contraception and we had no religion. I’d been using contraception since I was 15 and did not believe it to be sinful. I was thoroughly lapsed and so was he. We were pretty sure we wanted children, but of course it was going to be in our time and we would choose how many. That’s similar to your situation with your fiancee.

And then, once we decided it was time and went off birth control, our sexual intimacy was nothing short of amazing. I’d never had sex without contraception. Wow. And this was when we were still secular! Looking back, all I can say is that the Church has it right. Putting a barrier between husband and wife and God messes things up to the nth degree.

Anyway, sorry for the digression. Unlike many women who have used contraception for a decade or more, I got pregnant almost right away. I was very lucky, because I was 33 as well, pretty old for a first baby. I had severe morning sickness for 3 mos. and was very concerned for the baby’s development, since I’d also been a vegetarian for 10 years by then, and hadn’t been careful about protein balance. Babies need a lot of protein to develop properly, and I couldn’t eat very much at all. Out of desperation, I started to pray. I didn’t share that with my husband, knowing he’d scoff at me. But being pregnant and giving birth changed my life, completely. The person I had been no longer existed. I knew without a doubt that God was real and that I had to get back to Church. It was shocking and powerful. I get tears in my eyes even now, just thinking of it. Thank you Holy Spirit! But I digress again.

From that time until now (23 years married, 13 in the Church), my husband and I have disagreed about children. We just had another discussion about it on Sunday that left me in tears. Now it’s about our sons - he said he hoped they wouldn’t take on my beliefs about children (the more, the merrier!) and I told him that they understand the Church’s stance on birth control. He said children are expensive; I told him children are a blessing and God’s gift to us. There was more but I won’t go into it. We got such a late start to have our children that after our 2nd son, I couldn’t have any more. But I wouldn’t have been opposed to adoption even then. But he is a “2 and no more” type of person. I am sure he would not have been happy if I’d gotten pregnant again. We did continue to use contraception after our first but we got pregnant anyway (thank you Lord!). We were planning to try again but not right then! LOL

We had amniocentesis for the first baby but not the second - by then I knew I would never be able to abort a baby for any reason period. I do not know what I would have done if the tests had showed an abnormality with our first. I know that my husband would have lobbied hard for abortion, and if there had been something wrong, he might not have stayed with us. I thank God that He spared me from the pain of having an abortion. I am not sure I’d have been strong enough at that point to stand up to the pressure.

I don’t mean to detract from my husband. He’s a good man, but away from God. When you put God back into the equation, and the Church, life just straightens out. When you take God out, and put your own ideas in, things go awry in so many ways. I’m sure he wouldn’t have meant to be so heartless, but the society has influenced him and he believes the lies wholeheartedly. Like your fiancee, he has a plan and it’s all about him and what he wants and what he can do, not what God has planned for him.

I know that being a mother was my vocation. And I am still in mourning for the babies I didn’t have. Since I was a little girl, I have imagined a house full of children, music, noise, and love. I wasn’t able to get there, but I thank God for the 2 wonderful sons that I do have. I pray that they will embrace ALL of God’s blessings in their lives, as many children as they can love and care for.

I would not advise people to marry who are not in agreement on contraception and children. No, never. Again, God changed the terms of my marriage and now we are unequally yoked, although both of us are baptized and sacramental Catholics. You’d be in a similar position starting out, as your fiancee does not accept Church teaching on contraception. Yes, God can change hearts, but there is no guarantee. There IS a guarantee of pain for the spouse who recognizes the sins.

Just saw this post! Wow, your experience is telling. We’ve been talking this over and she understands where I am coming from. I told her though I do not want to make any further plans until we sort this out. She agrees. She is having a hard time accepting that other Christians say BC is ok but the CC says no. She actually said “its not fair!” I agreed its not but the issue is not fairness, its my concern for her dignity and health.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Just saw this post! Wow, your experience is telling. We’ve been talking this over and she understands where I am coming from. I told her though I do not want to make any further plans until we sort this out. She agrees. She is having a hard time accepting that other Christians say BC is ok but the CC says no. She actually said “its not fair!” I agreed its not but the issue is not fairness, its my concern for her dignity and health.

Your main concern must be for the health of her soul. Spouses are charged to help each other get to heaven. Using artificial birth control is a guarantee in the other direction. I still have times where I wonder if God really has forgiven me for using contraception all those years. Yes, I confessed it, but the sin is staggering.

What does she mean, “It’s not fair!” Does she want children? Does she understand that as a Catholic she must remain open to life? Oh, my heart aches so for younger women. They think of children as an obstacle to everything they want to do in their lives. So sad.

 

[silentfactor80]

Your main concern must be for the health of her soul. Spouses are charged to help each other get to heaven. Using artificial birth control is a guarantee in the other direction. I still have times where I wonder if God really has forgiven me for using contraception all those years. Yes, I confessed it, but the sin is staggering.

What does she mean, “It’s not fair!” Does she want children? Does she understand that as a Catholic she must remain open to life? Oh, my heart aches so for younger women. They think of children as an obstacle to everything they want to do in their lives. So sad.

She thinks its not fair they can use birth control, not have to get pregnant, still enjoy sex, and not have to feel bad about it. Yes, I have the same lamentations about our view of children these days. The problem is our consumerist / materialistic culture. We are so heavily judged by our possessions, expensive vacations, degrees, and fame that kids are seen as an obstacle to all that.

 

[DadfromMN]

Like most questions asked here, I think you already knew the answer. Your potential mate does not agree with God’s word and if your a practicing catholic you can not in good conscience marry her with her understanding being the way it is. I also do not get the sense you are truly “open to life,” given your 2-3 kids quote. I would recommend you taking a deep breath, stepping back and examining your own thoughts on the subject matter, and look into your own heart to see if you are in agreement with the God’s word. It is Gods word that is pro life and pro children, it is not just a “church teaching,” or “rule.”

 

[28562]

She thinks its not fair they can use birth control, not have to get pregnant, still enjoy sex, and not have to feel bad about it.

I think it’s not fair that they get to miss out on great sexual relationships with their spouse because they are too focused on only the physical pleasure they can gain from it, not the emotional and spiritual bonding.

 

[28562]

Have you thought about showing her stats for the divorce rate for America vs. the divorce rates for Americans who use NFP?

 

[silentfactor80]

Like most questions asked here, I think you already knew the answer. Your potential mate does not agree with God’s word and if your a practicing catholic you can not in good conscience marry her with her understanding being the way it is. I also do not get the sense you are truly “open to life,” given your 2-3 kids quote. I would recommend you taking a deep breath, stepping back and examining your own thoughts on the subject matter, and look into your own heart to see if you are in agreement with the God’s word. It is Gods word that is pro life and pro children, it is not just a “church teaching,” or “rule.”

I have thought about this a lot and my God-given lot in life calls for 2-3 children. Of coarse I know the answer. It is nice to share with others though and see what worked / didnt work for them though. It is about community.

 

[DadfromMN]

I have thought about this a lot and my God-given lot in life calls for 2-3 children. Of coarse I know the answer. It is nice to share with others though and see what worked / didnt work for them though. It is about community.

God given lot? Do you mean your current wage? Living arrangements? Education ? Do you believe that God will provide when the need arises or do you view life as a prepaid gift card that only allows a certain level of purchases," ( certain number of children to be cared for)? I would say only God knows the “lot” you speak of, and he continues to give from it when it’s needed. You are underestimating yourself and God’s ability to provide when he is needed.

I would also like to agree with you that a community of believers is needed to help each other along the faith journey, even though the truth may be hard to hear!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I have thought about this a lot and my God-given lot in life calls for 2-3 children. Of coarse I know the answer. It is nice to share with others though and see what worked / didnt work for them though. It is about community.

:nope:

How can you know that God only wants you to have 2-3 children? What will you do if you and your wife get pregnant with a 4th, or a 5th? Are you sure you are truly open to life? You just said it makes you sad when people are so materialistic and utilitarian…and then this.

 

[silentfactor80]

:nope:

How can you know that God only wants you to have 2-3 children? What will you do if you and your wife get pregnant with a 4th, or a 5th? Are you sure you are truly open to life? You just said it makes you sad when people are so materialistic and utilitarian…and then this.

Part of the RCC accepted use of NFP is spacing kids and avoiding pregnancy when necessary. The necessity could be financial if it would deprive the other kids their needs. In any case since I am not there yet (and may never get there) its a moot point. If while using NFP we had more than 3 that’s fine (I would never encourage abortion) but you can rest assured we would remain abstinent after that.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

She thinks its not fair they can use birth control, not have to get pregnant, still enjoy sex, and not have to feel bad about it.

A very interesting bit of information is that most (all?) protestant denominations were against the use of birth control until the 1930’s. It’s not that Catholics are the crazy ones who came up with this wild idea, it’s that the Catholics are the only ones who have not let themselves be blown like a leaf in the cultural wind. I don’t know the details of this information - maybe someone else can point you to somewhere you can read more about this. But I have personally found that fact to be helpful to me at whatever times I have lamented the “luck” of the protestants for having fewer rules. Perhaps having the perspective that if the protestants had been able to keep on the path of truth (which by their very nature, they can not), they TOO would forbid birth control, will help her a little?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Part of the RCC accepted use of NFP is spacing kids and avoiding pregnancy when necessary. The necessity could be financial if it would deprive the other kids their needs. In any case since I am not there yet (and may never get there) its a moot point. If while using NFP we had more than 3 that’s fine (I would never encourage abortion) but you can rest assured we would remain abstinent after that.

Please discuss this subject with your fiancee. Let her know your exact plans, including extended abstinence rather than having normal sexual relations after perhaps having only 3 children. You guys need to talk a lot more.

Why do you draw the line at 3 children, BTW?

 

[silentfactor80]

Please discuss this subject with your fiancee. Let her know your exact plans, including extended abstinence rather than having normal sexual relations after perhaps having only 3 children. You guys need to talk a lot more.

Why do you draw the line at 3 children, BTW?

We arrived at that number together. I’ll be honest finances are an issue. It’s not something you can just throw to the wind and hope for the best. Thousands of kids die everyday in Africa because they just keep popping kids with no means to support them. God doesn’t just want people to create life, He wants us to sustain / nurture it too. I cannot do that on a teachers salary. Faith and reason go together.

 

[DadfromMN]

We arrived at that number together. I’ll be honest finances are an issue. It’s not something you can just throw to the wind and hope for the best. Thousands of kids die everyday in Africa because they just keep popping kids with no means to support them. God doesn’t just want people to create life, He wants us to sustain / nurture it too. I cannot do that on a teachers salary. Faith and reason go together.

Reason is of man.

Reason would tell you to have no kids or at the very most 2, so that you replace yourself and your future wife.

 

[anruari]

Have you thought about showing her stats for the divorce rate for America vs. the divorce rates for Americans who use NFP?

That’s an interesting one. Can you provide a link please? I can guess at the results, but seeing stats from a source that can be widely respected and accepted would be a powerful tool.