Birth Control Issue

[anruari]

Why do you draw the line at 3 children, BTW?

I’ll chip in here and say that my wife and I are also hoping to have about 3 children.
We would like more but suspect that that would be medically very unwise.

we currently have 2, and my wife has a range of medical complications. She is unwilling to consider deliberately becoming pregnant after the age of 40 because of the rapidly increasing health risks to her and to any children conceived then.
Her gynie problems mean we need to have our children spaced out by a couple of years or so for safety, and we didn’t meet and marry until our 30’s. Time is therefore a significant limiting factor for us.
We do hope (and pray) to have another baby in a couple of years from now, and options for a 4th will be considered after that. - but medical necessity could get in the way at any time, as my wife’s problems are such that we are postponing an inevitable hysterectomy until we have had our children. Unfortunately it’s the only cure for some of my wife’s (very painful) problems.

We do foresee a strong possibility of fostering or adoption after that time, but that’s a long way down the road, and requires horrible intrusive assessment processes which we would find very difficult to go through.

I will point out that open discussions about family size on this forum are useful, but each couple have to make their own decisions, based on an informed conscience and on their own circumstances. these discussions must be charitable,and non judgemental the hierarchy have deliberately left the guidelines vague and said that these matters are a matter of personal conscience.

Openness to life must include a careful and rational assessment on ones ability to raise, educate and provide for the physical, emotional and spiritual needs of your family.
Different couples abilities in these areas differ greatly.

It is not a virtuous thing to do to push your body to the limit having a massive family with no thoughts for further provision or expecting massive subsistence aid from the state or charities.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I’ll chip in here and say that my wife and I are also hoping to have about 3 children.
We would like more but suspect that that would be medically very unwise.

we currently have 2, and my wife has a range of medical complications. She is unwilling to consider deliberately becoming pregnant after the age of 40 because of the rapidly increasing health risks to her and to any children conceived then.
Her gynie problems mean we need to have our children spaced out by a couple of years or so for safety, and we didn’t meet and marry until our 30’s. Time is therefore a significant limiting factor for us.
We do hope (and pray) to have another baby in a couple of years from now, and options for a 4th will be considered after that. - but medical necessity could get in the way at any time, as my wife’s problems are such that we are postponing an inevitable hysterectomy until we have had our children. Unfortunately it’s the only cure for some of my wife’s (very painful) problems.

We do foresee a strong possibility of fostering or adoption after that time, but that’s a long way down the road, and requires horrible intrusive assessment processes which we would find very difficult to go through.

I will point out that open discussions about family size on this forum are useful, but each couple have to make their own decisions, based on an informed conscience and on their own circumstances. these discussions must be charitable,and non judgemental the hierarchy have deliberately left the guidelines vague and said that these matters are a matter of personal conscience.

Openness to life must include a careful and rational assessment on ones ability to raise, educate and provide for the physical, emotional and spiritual needs of your family.
Different couples abilities in these areas differ greatly.

It is not a virtuous thing to do to push your body to the limit having a massive family with no thoughts for further provision or expecting massive subsistence aid from the state or charities.

Your situation is completely different from that of the OP. He’s a young man, hasn’t discussed any health problems, just thinking ahead and deciding that God only wants him to have 2 children, 3 at MOST, for his own reasons. God doesn’t send people messages, “I want you to have 6 children only,” or, “You can only have 1 child, sorry.”

NFP is not meant to serve as birth control. Unless the situations are pretty serious, we are not meant to limit the blessing of children. In your case, perhaps it is appropriate. But in the case of someone going INTO a marriage with a contraceptive mindset, no matter the method, still may be sinful.

 

[Rico_S]

He’s a young man, hasn’t discussed any health problems, just thinking ahead and deciding that God only wants him to have 2 children, 3 at MOST, for his own reasons.

First off, I sort of laugh at the thought of truly planning these sorts of things. Sure, sometimes it works out like we picture it, but so much changes over the course of a marriage, as your example shows, that it is hard to get worked up over something like this. When we got married, I pictured us with 2 kids…my wife 6. In the end, we have 4, and if we had more $$ and I had more patience, I would be open to adding. My wife on the other hand isn’t so interested.

And “for his own reasons” We are co-creators in this…we have a say and just b/c they are “his” reasons doesn’t mean they are wrong, unjust, nor selfish.

God doesn’t send people messages, “I want you to have 6 children only,” or, “You can only have 1 child, sorry.”

And you know this how? I can say for myself I have never been sent such a message by God, nor am I implying OP was sent such a message. But it is a bit presumptuous to think that God isn’t involved in his thought process. If he had said, “I want 8 kids…4 girls and 4 boys” would you still jump all over him, saying he is determining his family size for his “own reasons.”?

Look, relax. OP is young. He has shown a spiritual maturity beyond that of most entering marriage. I think he will be fine.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I wanted to point out how the contraceptive mentality has affected everyone, including Catholics. The “normal” family size is 2 children, even for Catholics. 3 is seen as pushing the limits of normal, and 4 is a very large family and likely to bring criticism from all quarters, even Catholic family members. We started our family very late and my husband was not on-board with having more than 2 children, unfortunately. Just the other day we were discussing our sons and their future families and again, I saw his utter horror of large families. Guess I won’t be applying for foster kids either…If I had realized earlier that my true God-give vocation was as a wife and mother, and everything worked out, I’d have had 6 or more. God saw things differently.

Since I believe that artificial contraception is responsible for society’s breakdown, I think it’s a hugely important issue and one that continues to dominate this forum. Therefore, I think the discussion is worth having.

 

[silentfactor80]

Just thought I would post back that the engagement is off. I told my former fiancee that we have different goals and motivations in life that are not compatible. I think I was somewhat naive as to what shape this world is in and I want to do something about it so others can have a fruitful marriage.Gender polarization is becoming a bigger and bigger issue to the point it can’t be ignored anymore. I am going to work on this while I plan a course into social advocacy.

 

[Chiltepin]

Just thought I would post back that the engagement is off. I told my former fiancee that we have different goals and motivations in life that are not compatible. I think I was somewhat naive as to what shape this world is in and I want to do something about it so others can have a fruitful marriage.Gender polarization is becoming a bigger and bigger issue to the point it can’t be ignored anymore. I am going to work on this while I plan a course into social advocacy.

Good for you. It isn’t about whether or not marriage is your vocation, it is wether marrying her was your vocation. Calling off an engagement is tough, I did it once. Best decision I ever made. You will find that people are oddly understanding and tell you how wise you were, even though it feels super embarassing to tell people who had marked it on their calendar and everything. What kind of advocacy are you talking about?

 

[silentfactor80]

Good for you. It isn’t about whether or not marriage is your vocation, it is wether marrying her was your vocation. Calling off an engagement is tough, I did it once. Best decision I ever made. You will find that people are oddly understanding and tell you how wise you were, even though it feels super embarassing to tell people who had marked it on their calendar and everything. What kind of advocacy are you talking about?

Not sure yet. Maybe an author and advocate for NFP and improving the quality of Catholic marriages. There is a site called 1Flesh which is run by college students advocating for NFP. I want to take their their work and spread the word.

 

[Xantippe]

“If he had said, “I want 8 kids…4 girls and 4 boys” would you still jump all over him, saying he is determining his family size for his “own reasons.”?”

I think that’s also presumptuous. I think it makes more sense to take things one kid at a time, giving yourself time to see what maternal health or special needs issues turn up. Anyway, what if you have a run of all girls or all boys?

 

[silentfactor80]

“If he had said, “I want 8 kids…4 girls and 4 boys” would you still jump all over him, saying he is determining his family size for his “own reasons.”?”

I think that’s also presumptuous. I think it makes more sense to take things one kid at a time, giving yourself time to see what maternal health or special needs issues turn up. Anyway, what if you have a run of all girls or all boys?

Doesn’t matter either way guys. I am not marrying that woman and have other commitments to tend to in this life. Sadly our world is content with mediocrity. It’s a shame but that is how it is.

 

[Cathhsmom]

You are wise to be concerned for her health. Here are a few links to articles about the risks of artificial birth control pills and breast cancer. I will post later on the subject of BCPs themselves in marriage.

onemoresoul.com/contraception-abortion/risks-consequences/breast-cancer-risk-from-the-pill-new-and-revised.html

“2) What is the evidence that the Pill and breast cancer are connected?
In 2005, the World Health Organization classified oral contraceptives as a Group I carcinogen—the most dangerous classification known.[2] Also, a comprehensive meta-analysis* published in the Mayo Clinic Proceedings in October, 2006[3] found that 21 out of 23 retrospective studies done since 1980 showed that women who took oral contraceptive prior to the birth of their first child sustained a 44% average increased risk of developing pre-menopausal breast cancer, [see Table A]. ] This risk rose to 52% for women who took the pill for at least four years prior to the birth of their first child.”

womenofgrace.com/blog/?p=12488

"The World Health Organization has named the birth control pill a Group 1 Carcinogen — right up there with radiation and cigarettes. How many women know this? How many doctors tell them? "

Someone also shared with me on FB how their 16 year old daughter died from BCPs. She got a blood clot that went to her lungs and killed her. There are risks. Most people are not told about them by their doctors.

 

[silentfactor80]

You are wise to be concerned for her health. Here are a few links to articles about the risks of artificial birth control pills and breast cancer. I will post later on the subject of BCPs themselves in marriage.

onemoresoul.com/contraception-abortion/risks-consequences/breast-cancer-risk-from-the-pill-new-and-revised.html

“2) What is the evidence that the Pill and breast cancer are connected?
In 2005, the World Health Organization classified oral contraceptives as a Group I carcinogen—the most dangerous classification known.[2] Also, a comprehensive meta-analysis* published in the Mayo Clinic Proceedings in October, 2006[3] found that 21 out of 23 retrospective studies done since 1980 showed that women who took oral contraceptive prior to the birth of their first child sustained a 44% average increased risk of developing pre-menopausal breast cancer, [see Table A]. ] This risk rose to 52% for women who took the pill for at least four years prior to the birth of their first child.”

womenofgrace.com/blog/?p=12488

"The World Health Organization has named the birth control pill a Group 1 Carcinogen — right up there with radiation and cigarettes. How many women know this? How many doctors tell them? "

Someone also shared with me on FB how their 16 year old daughter died from BCPs. She got a blood clot that went to her lungs and killed her. There are risks. Most people are not told about them by their doctors.

Yes, these statistics are certainly important. You should check out the site 1Flesh that is run by med students. They regularly talk about contraceptives and how bad they are. Doctors don’t tell people because their egos tell them birth control is good, people have sex anyways, and the world is overpopulated so we have to start decreasing the surplus population. (where have we heard that before) Liberals won’t allow a deeper philosophical discussion of in sexuality in school so teaching from a values standpoint leaves us at a standstill so the Pills are pushed. You can also bet the pharmaceutical companies enjoy making an easy buck too.

 

[1inICXC]

I certainly didn’t intended on marrying her with the intent to change her. I think I may have understated what I meant by she would “consider NFP.” When we had the discussion she said she really liked not having to take the Pill because she’s known people that have had bad reactions to it. She sounded excited about it then took a 180 no way street.

In any case, thanks for your advice here. I see I have 3 options: 1) Break off the engagement 2) Sin 3) Hope God gives her new insight

1 is not looking so unpalatable right now
2 is a non starter for me
3 is hopeful thinking

In someways maybe 1 is the best option. If I break it off though I’m done (by my own choosing). I’ve been contemplating lately that to even bring kids into this messed up world these days is a sin. I’ve seen faithful Catholic parents (both the super strict and moderate ones) loose their kids to today’s vices. The radical left has learned how effectively campaign for souls and those on the right are clueless. I don’t care to bring kids in this world to be sacrificed at the alter of liberalism.

Great thread, and productive too. I just won’t let it rest because I feel this area of your judgement and perception needs a bit of clearing up. Dh and I were thinking precisely along these lines and brought our concerns to a priest (who is also an exorcist). His answer was this:

You are not bringing a child into the world but a soul into Eternity

There is no greater honor or favor we can bring God.

1. Don’t worry, you’ll get married! There are plenty of Catholic women out there desperate to find a man with your views.

God keep you!