W
waitin4truluv
Guest
yes, i know it does sound like a paradox, but is it still a sin if you are not sexually active an do not plan to be but yet still are on the birth control because of hormonal imbalances?
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K
KCT
Guest
Perfectly OK. —KCT
W
WanderAimlessly
Guest
I have heard this one on Catholic Answers Line and I believe they said that it is permissible for certain medical condtions. Saying that, you were right to put in the condition about being “not sexually active” which was mentioned on that broadcast.
If you are in a married state, I believe that abstinance is required while on the “pill” since the it acts as an abortifacient.
PF
H
Ham1
Guest
If you are in a married state and have no alternative but to take a birth control pill for serious health reasons, you are not obliged to abstain. It is a case of double effect and the action of the pill would be an unintended evil effect of a morally good action.
C
CatholicMatthew
Guest
The only point of consideration is that you would not be doing anything to solve the problem. Try CCL resources such as Fertility Cycles and Nutrition and maybe try to take the class and get a good NFP only or well informed doc or look into Pope Paul VI Institute.
matt
C
CatholicMatthew
Guest
Actually, this is incorrect. If you look at the requirements for double effect to be used then abstinence would be required. The negative effect must be less than the intended good and no other options must be available.
First, the abortifacent effect kills an innocent human being so this sets the bar very high.
Second, other treatments are available: Natural hormone therapy, nutrition, vitamins, surgery, pseudo menopause drugs and hysterectomy.
This defeats the ability to use double effect under the fourth and fifth requirements necessary for use of double effect.
Under the Mercy,
Matthew
I
Island_Oak
Guest
If you are not engaged in sexual activity, nor receiving hormones for that purpose, then the treatment you are receiving to remedy an abnormal physical condition is called MEDICATION, not birth control.
How could that be a sin?
T
ThornGenX
Guest
I was given the ok to use “birth control” to as medication. Since I was not in any kind of sexual relationship, it would not be against church teaching.
H
Ham1
Guest
No, my statement is correct. In the circumstance described abstinence is not required according to Fr. Vincent Serpa. The Ask an Apologist forum answered this months ago:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=4618
B
beckers
Guest
Has anyone heard or know of a website that list alternatives to the pill for people who need the estrogen. My roommate is having HUGE issues with the possible of getting married but she has to have the estrogen that comes with the pill. We have both been unlucky in finding info on the internet but she wants to get off the pill and get her body adjusted to the new medicine before she gets married. Any help would be greatly appericated!
God Bless,
Beckers
God Bless,
Beckers
C
CatholicMatthew
Guest
I am aware of Fr. Serpa’s AAA post. I wholeheartedly disagree with it and have contacted him about it. I have also contacted orthodox moral theologians, other apologists and other Catholic Thinkers (Dr. J. Smith for example). They wholehearedly agree that my analysis of Double Effect in this case is correct and that marital relations while using something under said principle that can cause abortus conceptus is not correct and does not meet the standards of double effect. The Vadecum for Confessors also makes allusion to this fact, though not directly or dealing with an identical situation.
Conditions for double effect listed below:
Quote:
· The intended act must be good in itself. The intended act may not be morally evil.
I can see that this condition is easily met.
Quote:
· The good effect of the act must be that which is directly intended by the one who carries out the act. The bad effect that results from the act may be foreseen by the agent but must be unintended.
I can see that this condition is also achievable.
Quote:
· The good effect must not be brought about by using morally evil means.
Again for cycle regulation this condition would be met but not for the purpose of avoiding pregnancy. I believe we agree on this point.
Quote:
· The good effect must be of equal or greater proportion to any evil effect which would result.
At this point I begin to waver from the continued sexual relations as being allowable. Since, it is forseeable that the action of *abortus conceptus *might/could occur and that is the loss of life then the medical need would have to be extremely high. In other words would not the condition/symptoms being relieved have to be life-threatening?
Quote:
· Acts that have morally negative effects are permissible only when truly necessary, i.e., when there are no other means by which the good may be obtained.
C
CatholicMatthew
Guest
In respect to this I would say that other means are always available (pseudo-menopausal drugs. hysterectomy, pregnancy) that do not have the consequence of abortus conceptus if abstinence is not utilized. In light of this it would seem that continued sexual relations and use of the pill for alleviation of discomfort or regulation of cycles would not be anywhere near licit. It really seems that the bar is set extrememly high due to the weight of human life. Also, the fact that other means are available would seem to contraindicate its use.
Their is much information, medically speaking, that needs to be sorted through and I am working on trying to gather some of this in my NFP teaching ministry and help spread the truth.
Under the Mercy,
Matthew Sauer
Their is much information, medically speaking, that needs to be sorted through and I am working on trying to gather some of this in my NFP teaching ministry and help spread the truth.
Under the Mercy,
Matthew Sauer
F
felra
Guest
Interesting how two “orthodox” sources of Catholic doctrine come to two contradictory conlusions. No wonder the sincere laity are left confused and ambiguous, and those searching for a “loophole” of sorts to fit their particular preference can cite this or that “authoritative” source or clergy. Has Fr. Serpa gotten back with you yet? There are alot of “seems” and theological conjecture to this issue. Is it primarily a matter of who wants to “try harder” to live the intent of the doctrine? CA Apologist Jan Wakelin in a similiar matter appears to have answered in a correct manner (in which the proposed birth control pill *will not *abort a fertilized egg).
question on contraception
J
johnq
Guest
Why harm the body, when there are healthy alternatives?
omsoul.com/
THE HARMS OF CONTRACEPTION
There are several reasons why we believe that the use of contraception harms everyone involved. The first reason is that the use of contraception leads to abortion. Several “contraceptives” are in fact abortifacients. That is, they cause early abortions. All oral contraceptives, Norplant, Depo-Provera, and IUDs cause abortions before a woman even knows she’s pregnant. According to Dr. Bogomir Kuhar, in Infant Homicides Through Contraceptives, these forms of birth control take an estimated 8.1 to 12.75 million lives each year in the US alone. Contraceptives also cause abortions through their failures. All contraceptives fail, some quite often. Even surgical sterilization has a failure rate. Each “failure” results in a new human life, a new baby, an actual woman facing an unplanned and often unwanted pregnancy. These pregnancies are at risk for abortion.
The invention of the birth control pill was revolutionary and, in fact, caused the sexual revolution. Once people thought they could have sex without the possibility of pregnancy, or with a greatly reduced risk of pregnancy, they began to disregard the traditional structures that had protected children and sex for centuries. Contraceptives pills were soon prescribed for younger and younger unmarried women. Since contraceptives fail, this led to an upsurge in the numbers of out of wedlock and teenage pregnancies, and the number of single parent families. With the increase in premarital and extramarital sex, and the number of partners one person might have, the rate of infection from sexually transmitted diseases skyrocketed. Even the number of serious sexually transmitted diseases soared, from about twelve known diseases thirty years ago to over fifty today. This plague has even struck our senior citizens as, empowered by Viagra, they have contact with multiple sex partners. Several retirement communities now report epidemics of STDs. Nature is telling them that even after fertility is naturally gone, the marriage vow is still sacred. The diseases themselves have changed, from easily treatable, known diseases, to more and more destructive ones, including the AIDS virus. Some contraceptives, especially hormonal contraceptives, even make the user more susceptible to STDs.
Contraceptives can help destroy marriages. Only four years after contraceptives were first tested, researchers found that marriages in which contraceptives were used were twice as likely to end in divorce than marriages in which there was no contraceptive use1. Why this huge difference? Well, using contraceptives means that a couple’s fertility is suppressed, and treated like a disease. They are no longer able to share themselves with each other totally in the sex act. There is a barrier not just physical, but also emotional, erected between them. They are closing one part of themselves off from each other, and from God. Often the couple begin to be dissatisfied. The wife starts to feel that the husband does not desire her, only her body. The husband begins to feel that his wife doesn’t really want to have sex with him, that she is cold and tired. These attitudes can poison their whole relationship. With this crucial part of their marriage gone bad, soon other problems develop. Before they know it, the couple is in divorce court, dividing up their mutual property.
Contraceptives treat children like a disease. We take medicine or have surgery done to prevent them. When a couple does become pregnant in our modern culture, it may be seen as an occasion for condolences rather than congratulations. A pregnancy after a couple has one or two children may be treated as an unfortunate mistake. As Christians, we know that this attitude is wrong. The Bible tells us that children are a gift from God. They are His blessings. An abundance of children is an expression of God’s special favor. What right do any of us have to refuse a gift from God? Instead of the world’s attitude that children are bothersome nuisances that prevent us from enjoying our hard-earned wealth, we need to see each child as a marvelous assist to full human life. We believe that all children are good and beautiful. Although some pregnancies may occur under tragic circumstances, each child is an occasion for celebration.
omsoul.com/
THE HARMS OF CONTRACEPTION
There are several reasons why we believe that the use of contraception harms everyone involved. The first reason is that the use of contraception leads to abortion. Several “contraceptives” are in fact abortifacients. That is, they cause early abortions. All oral contraceptives, Norplant, Depo-Provera, and IUDs cause abortions before a woman even knows she’s pregnant. According to Dr. Bogomir Kuhar, in Infant Homicides Through Contraceptives, these forms of birth control take an estimated 8.1 to 12.75 million lives each year in the US alone. Contraceptives also cause abortions through their failures. All contraceptives fail, some quite often. Even surgical sterilization has a failure rate. Each “failure” results in a new human life, a new baby, an actual woman facing an unplanned and often unwanted pregnancy. These pregnancies are at risk for abortion.
The invention of the birth control pill was revolutionary and, in fact, caused the sexual revolution. Once people thought they could have sex without the possibility of pregnancy, or with a greatly reduced risk of pregnancy, they began to disregard the traditional structures that had protected children and sex for centuries. Contraceptives pills were soon prescribed for younger and younger unmarried women. Since contraceptives fail, this led to an upsurge in the numbers of out of wedlock and teenage pregnancies, and the number of single parent families. With the increase in premarital and extramarital sex, and the number of partners one person might have, the rate of infection from sexually transmitted diseases skyrocketed. Even the number of serious sexually transmitted diseases soared, from about twelve known diseases thirty years ago to over fifty today. This plague has even struck our senior citizens as, empowered by Viagra, they have contact with multiple sex partners. Several retirement communities now report epidemics of STDs. Nature is telling them that even after fertility is naturally gone, the marriage vow is still sacred. The diseases themselves have changed, from easily treatable, known diseases, to more and more destructive ones, including the AIDS virus. Some contraceptives, especially hormonal contraceptives, even make the user more susceptible to STDs.
Contraceptives can help destroy marriages. Only four years after contraceptives were first tested, researchers found that marriages in which contraceptives were used were twice as likely to end in divorce than marriages in which there was no contraceptive use1. Why this huge difference? Well, using contraceptives means that a couple’s fertility is suppressed, and treated like a disease. They are no longer able to share themselves with each other totally in the sex act. There is a barrier not just physical, but also emotional, erected between them. They are closing one part of themselves off from each other, and from God. Often the couple begin to be dissatisfied. The wife starts to feel that the husband does not desire her, only her body. The husband begins to feel that his wife doesn’t really want to have sex with him, that she is cold and tired. These attitudes can poison their whole relationship. With this crucial part of their marriage gone bad, soon other problems develop. Before they know it, the couple is in divorce court, dividing up their mutual property.
Contraceptives treat children like a disease. We take medicine or have surgery done to prevent them. When a couple does become pregnant in our modern culture, it may be seen as an occasion for condolences rather than congratulations. A pregnancy after a couple has one or two children may be treated as an unfortunate mistake. As Christians, we know that this attitude is wrong. The Bible tells us that children are a gift from God. They are His blessings. An abundance of children is an expression of God’s special favor. What right do any of us have to refuse a gift from God? Instead of the world’s attitude that children are bothersome nuisances that prevent us from enjoying our hard-earned wealth, we need to see each child as a marvelous assist to full human life. We believe that all children are good and beautiful. Although some pregnancies may occur under tragic circumstances, each child is an occasion for celebration.
J
johnq
Guest
continued…
Contraceptives degrade women. From the day in junior high when a woman menstruates for the first time, a woman’s fertility is a huge part of her life. If her constantly changing hormones were not enough, for five to ten days every month she gets powerfully reminded again and again that this body of hers was designed to conceive and bear children. When a woman uses contraceptives, she and her partner are actively rejecting this essential fact about herself. Her ability to become pregnant, one of the greatest blessings of her life, becomes unacceptable and a burden. Because most contraceptives are designed to be used by women, when they fail, and a pregnancy occurs, it is “her fault.” She is expected to “deal with” her mistake, usually by having an abortion. The father of the child, although he is as responsible for this child as the mother, feels free to abandon both of them. After all, since the contraception wasn’t his responsibility, why should he be responsible for the result of the contraceptive failure?
Hormonal contraceptives, besides being abortifacient, have horrific side effects for the women who use them. From high blood pressure to blood clots2, to heart attacks3, to migraine headaches, to menstrual problems after you quit taking the drug, hormonal contraceptives (the pill, Norplant, and Depo-Provera etc) can wreak havoc on a woman’s body. It is no coincidence that the rise in breast cancer followed ten to fifteen years after hormonal contraceptives first became readily available4. It is also no coincidence that many women who have been on the pill for years and now want children, find they are now infertile5. Infertility has become a national epidemic, with couples spending hundreds of thousands of dollars trying desperately to conceive. Unethical doctors continue to become wealthy prescribing contraceptives and then treating the side effects.
Finally, we believe that the use of contraception is wrong, because that is what our Church teaches. Although it has come under serious fire both from within and without, the Roman Catholic Church has never changed its centuries-old teaching that contraception is morally wrong, and that its use is immoral. Many Catholics have been deceived into believing that the Catholic Church has changed its teaching, or that it doesn’t matter anymore. The truth is that the Church cannot change the Creator’s design. What is intrinsically immoral will always remain so. We challenge all believers to find out the truth, examine their own consciences, and live up to the standard that our Church has set for us. It’s never too late to make a change.
Contraceptives degrade women. From the day in junior high when a woman menstruates for the first time, a woman’s fertility is a huge part of her life. If her constantly changing hormones were not enough, for five to ten days every month she gets powerfully reminded again and again that this body of hers was designed to conceive and bear children. When a woman uses contraceptives, she and her partner are actively rejecting this essential fact about herself. Her ability to become pregnant, one of the greatest blessings of her life, becomes unacceptable and a burden. Because most contraceptives are designed to be used by women, when they fail, and a pregnancy occurs, it is “her fault.” She is expected to “deal with” her mistake, usually by having an abortion. The father of the child, although he is as responsible for this child as the mother, feels free to abandon both of them. After all, since the contraception wasn’t his responsibility, why should he be responsible for the result of the contraceptive failure?
Hormonal contraceptives, besides being abortifacient, have horrific side effects for the women who use them. From high blood pressure to blood clots2, to heart attacks3, to migraine headaches, to menstrual problems after you quit taking the drug, hormonal contraceptives (the pill, Norplant, and Depo-Provera etc) can wreak havoc on a woman’s body. It is no coincidence that the rise in breast cancer followed ten to fifteen years after hormonal contraceptives first became readily available4. It is also no coincidence that many women who have been on the pill for years and now want children, find they are now infertile5. Infertility has become a national epidemic, with couples spending hundreds of thousands of dollars trying desperately to conceive. Unethical doctors continue to become wealthy prescribing contraceptives and then treating the side effects.
Finally, we believe that the use of contraception is wrong, because that is what our Church teaches. Although it has come under serious fire both from within and without, the Roman Catholic Church has never changed its centuries-old teaching that contraception is morally wrong, and that its use is immoral. Many Catholics have been deceived into believing that the Catholic Church has changed its teaching, or that it doesn’t matter anymore. The truth is that the Church cannot change the Creator’s design. What is intrinsically immoral will always remain so. We challenge all believers to find out the truth, examine their own consciences, and live up to the standard that our Church has set for us. It’s never too late to make a change.
H
Ham1
Guest
Catholic Matthew,
You make some good points. Obviously, the case we would be considering would have to be one in which the birth control pill is the only alternative (Not sure this situation exists, but for the purposes of the debate it is quite useful).
I’d be interested in Fr. Serpa’s response. And I agree that your analysis of the proportionality of the effects seems to be correct. Most likely the safest (and most generous) action would be to use NFP to avoid possible spontaneous abortion. However, I am not sure that I agree that by not abstaining one would be committing a serious (or even any) sin.
We have definitely found a gray area. And to the person who said this is a problem: not at all, there are all sorts of could theologians who disagree on minor distinctions in the Faith.
Please keep us posted on Fr. Serpa’s response.
You make some good points. Obviously, the case we would be considering would have to be one in which the birth control pill is the only alternative (Not sure this situation exists, but for the purposes of the debate it is quite useful).
I’d be interested in Fr. Serpa’s response. And I agree that your analysis of the proportionality of the effects seems to be correct. Most likely the safest (and most generous) action would be to use NFP to avoid possible spontaneous abortion. However, I am not sure that I agree that by not abstaining one would be committing a serious (or even any) sin.
We have definitely found a gray area. And to the person who said this is a problem: not at all, there are all sorts of could theologians who disagree on minor distinctions in the Faith.
Please keep us posted on Fr. Serpa’s response.
F
felra
Guest
felra said:Interesting how two “orthodox” sources of Catholic doctrine come to two contradictory conlusions. No wonder the sincere laity are left confused and ambiguous…can cite this or that “authoritative” source or clergy…There are alot of “seems” and theological conjecture to this issue…CA Apologist Jan Wakelin in a similiar matter appears to have answered in a correct manner (in which the proposed birth control pill *will not *abort a fertilized egg).
Jan Wakelin vbmenu_register(“postmenu_27194”, true);Soooooooo, now, CA Apologist Jan Wakelin appears to have answered in an incorrect manner given the authoritative medical information from the posting of johnq (see except below) that **all **forms of oral [hormonal] contraceptives cause abortions. This is my above post observation and pondering of which “authoritative” statement to trust, which I believe contributes to the widespread “cafeteria Catholic” phemonena.
johnq:
omsoul.com/
THE HARMS OF CONTRACEPTION
There are several reasons why we believe that the use of contraception harms everyone involved. The first reason is that the use of contraception leads to abortion. Several “contraceptives” are in fact abortifacients. That is, they cause early abortions.** All** oral contraceptives, Norplant, Depo-Provera, and IUDs cause abortions before a woman even knows she’s pregnant.
question on contraception
[my question is that **my wife needs to take a birth control pill (not one that will abort a fertilized egg) for her health. she cannot menstrate without it (according to 2 doctors). so my question is, does the church allow for this?]
Catholic Answers Apologist
Re: question on contraception
**]If a particular hormone, **drug or procedure is needed to treat disease and if it has the unfortunate side effect of being an impediment to procreation, it is still licit.
The following is from Humanae Vitae:
“On the other hand…whatsoever” (#15)]
F
felra
Guest
“Minor distinctions”, nuances, perhaps, but "not at all " a problem, when “I am not sure one would be committing a serious sin”? Maybe not for you my friend, but, for someone trying to live the intent of the doctrine in the fullness of the truth in the daily walk of my vocation, I do not easily rest on either side of the fence of a “minor distinction” over the proper exercise of my co-creative capacitiy. Again, the official Church theologians and authorities representing Church teaching don’t even agree on the “interpretation” of the teaching in it’s practical application. This is my reference for how to properly approach “gray” areas of Catholic doctrine:
“Man is sometimes confronted by situations that make moral judgments less assured and decision difficult. But he must always seriously seek what is right and god and discern the will of God expressed in divine law. Some rules apply in every case: One may never do evil so that good may result from it. Conscience enables one to assume *responsibility *for the acts performed. ” (CCC 1787, 1789, 1781).
And this is my affliction: “So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.” (Matt.5:48).
F
felra
Guest
Taking this authoritative medical information from the posting of johnq (see except below) that **all **forms of oral contraceptives cause abortions, now apparently CA Apologist Jan Wakelin appears to have answered in an **incorrect **manner the Apologetics forum question regarding if licit to take birth control pill for hormonal treatment………this is another example of my above post observation and pondering of which “authoritative” statement to trust, which I believe contributes to the “cafeteria Catholic” phemonena.Interesting how two “orthodox” sources of Catholic doctrine come to two contradictory conlusions. No wonder the sincere laity are left confused and ambiguous…can cite this or that “authoritative” source or clergy…CA Apologist Jan Wakelin in a similiar matter appears to have answered in a correct manner (in which the proposed birth control pill *will not *abort a fertilized egg).
omsoul.com/
THE HARMS OF CONTRACEPTION
There are several reasons why we believe that the use of contraception harms everyone involved. The first reason is that the use of contraception leads to abortion. Several “contraceptives” are in fact abortifacients. That is, they cause early abortions.** All** oral contraceptives, Norplant, Depo-Provera, and IUDs cause abortions before a woman even knows she’s pregnant.
question on contraception
i know the church’s position. my question is that my wife needs to take a birth control pill (not one that will abort a fertilized egg) for her health. she cannot menstrate without it (according to 2 doctors). so my question is, does the church allow for this?
Jan Wakelin
Catholic Answers Apologist
Re: question on contraception
**If a particular hormone, drug or procedure is needed to treat disease and if it has the unfortunate side effect of being an impediment to procreation, it is still licit.
**
The following is from Humanae Vitae:
“On the other hand…whatsoever” (#15)
T
Trelow
Guest
The pill is never the answer.
Would you doctor just put you on coumadin if you really needed a CABG? I think not.
It’s a worthless, lazy way to practice medicine.
popepaulvi.com/
Would you doctor just put you on coumadin if you really needed a CABG? I think not.
It’s a worthless, lazy way to practice medicine.
popepaulvi.com/
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