Birth control question

[Benedictus]

Madia:

You are arguing semantics and seem to believe that pregnancy is the period from implantation to birth, not the period from fertilization to birth. Whether or not the child has yet implanted isn’t the woman still with child?

In a sense, it is about semantics, but pregnancy and conception aren’t the same thing. Consider IVF: children are conceived in test tubes, but nobody is pregnant. Pregnancy comes later (if at all).

 

[astegallrnc]

The definition of pregnancy is not simple, is it? Whether the pill causes early abortion or not isn’t a hard medical fact but comes down to how a person defines pregnancy. The medical facts and definitons vary by source. I teach Medical Terminology (I realize this is not science), and the book used in the course defines pregnancy as “growth and development process in a woman from fertilization through embryonic and fetal periods to birth”. My anatomy book from nursing school (granted it is old) also defines pregnancy beginning at fertilization.

The combination pill is the most commonly prescribed oral contraceptive not the progestin-only pill, and this statement is true for the family planning clinics I worked in for 7 years. I suppose other areas of the US and other countries may be different. So, the side effects and risks associated with exposure to estrogen and progestin are of consequence to most oral contraceptive users. The hormone content in contraceptives can cause other side effects not commonly discussed such as UTI, cervicitis, yeast infections, pelvic relaxation symptoms, elevated lipids, to name just a few. Using hormonal contraceptives is a big decision.

 

[Madia]

“In a sense, it is about semantics, but pregnancy and conception aren’t the same thing. Consider IVF: children are conceived in test tubes, but nobody is pregnant. Pregnancy comes later (if at all).”

Conception and pregnancy are different but conception inside a woman is the beginning of pregnancy. IVF is gravely immoral and causes conception to be achieved outside it’s natural environment. You can get into a theological discussion of when pregnancy actually occurs in the process of implantation but I don’t think that’s relevant to this topic.

Please don’t buy into the redefinition of pregnancy that people use to rationalize the use of chemical abortifacients. Irregardless of the child’s location inside the mother, the mother is still with child and hence pregnant. Any method used to terminate the pregnancy would be deemed an abortion.

 

[Donna_P]

ComradeAndrei:

My sister and I live together, going to college. The other day, rumaging for a rubber band I figured she had to have one. Anyway, I found some stuff from Planned Parenthood and did a bit more investigation and found birth control pills.

I made known my disapproval and more importantly the Church’s teachings on premarital sex and contraception. I don’t think she took anything I said to heart.

Anyway, what else should I do about it? I don’t like the idea of her actions, and I don’t even want so much as a piece of paper from that satanic organization within any sort of close proximity to me. However, if she isn’t going to listen, there is not really much more I can do.

Oh yes there is…you can pray. I have several family members whose idea of Catholicism is heretical at best. They won’t listen to any of my arguments let alone Sacred Scripture. I am nothing.

God is everything!
He can do anything.
Just ask Him!

So pray. Pray the Rosary. Pray a Novena. Fast and pray! Through Him all things are possible! And make sure you let your sister know that you are praying for her!!!

 

[StratusRose]

Benedictus:

In a sense, it is about semantics, but pregnancy and conception aren’t the same thing. Consider IVF: children are conceived in test tubes, but nobody is pregnant. Pregnancy comes later (if at all).

True, however, if a woman is taking the pill she is saying NO to life, and if a woman knows that a pill can cause a fertilized egg to be flushed out of her system and thus be killed, then that is an ABORTION. She is purposely getting rid of life. Whether or not you think the pill is an abortifacient or not is irrelevant. The church says that it is. Period.

 

[johnq]

Benedictus:

The Pill does not cause abortion, but the Pill may cause a embryo to fail to implant.

Can you please give us another name.

What I see is one dead embryo. Some would choose to word it differently by saying one dead baby. The terminology is different, but the end result is the same.

I have one more question, why did you throw tell us this:

the progesterin-only pill (the most commonly prescribed oral contraceptive) has not been shown to increase the risk of breast cancer. Blood clots are extremely rare in non-smokers

Why didn’t you mention the cancer it does cause?
Why does the WHO and NCI disagree with you on the increase risk of breast cancer?

World Health Organization Classifies Contraceptives as Highly Carcinogenic

GENEVA, Switzerland, August 8, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com)

A press release issued on July 29th of this year by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), a division of the World Health Organization (WHO), declared the little publicized classification of combined estrogen-progestogen oral contraceptives (OCs) as carcinogenic.

In 2003 the National Cancer Institute (NCI) became one of the latest added to the list of scientific bodies that had found a substantially increased risk of several types of cancer amongst combined OC users, citing a “significant increase” of the risk of breast cancer, as well as an increase in the risk of cervical and liver cancers.

For a more scientific article
See the IARC release:
[iarc.fr/ENG/Press_Releases/pr167a.html](http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/aug/<a%20href=http://www.iarc.fr/ENG/Press_Releases/pr167a.html>http://www.iarc.fr/ENG/Press_Releases/pr167a.html)

 

[astegallrnc]

Why didn’t you mention the cancer it does cause?
Why does the WHO and NCI disagree with you on the increase risk of breast cancer?

Benedictus was referring specifically to POPs (Progestin-only pills). The the news release is about COCs (Combination Oral Contraceptives), which are a combination of estrogen and progestin.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

astegallrnc:

The hormone content in contraceptives can cause other side effects not commonly discussed such as UTI, cervicitis, yeast infections, pelvic relaxation symptoms, elevated lipids, to name just a few. Using hormonal contraceptives is a big decision.

Elevated lipids? Is that the same as high cholesterol?

Malia

 

[astegallrnc]

Elevated lipids? Is that the same as high cholesterol?

Yes.

I know, I know there are numerous women who do well on the pill. But, I am a star example of how bad the pill can be for some women. My cholesterol, LDL (bad cholesterol, and triglycerides increased on the pill… HDL (ggod cholesterol) decreased… regardless of formulation… and returned to desirable levels within 4-6 weeks of disconituation. I expererimented. My body does all kinds of stuff it “isn’t supposed to do on the pill”.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

astegallrnc:

Yes.

I know, I know there are numerous women who do well on the pill. But, I am a star example of how bad the pill can be for some women. My cholesterol, LDL (bad cholesterol, and triglycerides increased on the pill… HDL (ggod cholesterol) decreased… regardless of formulation… and returned to desirable levels within 4-6 weeks of disconituation. I expererimented. My body does all kinds of stuff it “isn’t supposed to do on the pill”.

Hmmmmm…

I had high cholesterol the last few times I was tested. Not extremely high, but high for my age. Confusing because I eat fairly well and don’t have other risk factors but the doctor’s couldn’t tell me why it was high or how to bring it down.

One doctor insisted that it was how I ate (without wanting to hear how I actually eat) and dismissed me.

I have been off the pill now for over a year…I think I will get my cholesterol tested on my next doc visit and see if it’s come down.

thanks for the info.

malia

 

[Joan_M]

astegallrnc:

The definition of pregnancy is not simple, is it?
Actually, the definition of pregnancy is very simple.

Whether the pill causes early abortion or not isn’t a hard medical fact but comes down to how a person defines pregnancy.
It is, indeed, a hard medical fact. The only people who claim that the pill does not cause an early abortion are the “pro-choice” people who refuse to recognize hard medical facts. There can be only one definition of pregnancy, unless you have morally and scientifically blinded yourself.

The medical facts and definitons vary by source. I teach Medical Terminology (I realize this is not science), and the book used in the course defines pregnancy as “growth and development process in a woman from fertilization through embryonic and fetal periods to birth”. My anatomy book from nursing school (granted it is old) also defines pregnancy beginning at fertilization.

This is correct.

There is no good reason to take the contraceptive pill, since it does no good whatever - it prevents life, or it kills it, and when taken for “medical reasons” it does nothing except mask symptoms and put the woman at risk for health problems.

 

[space_ghost]

…unlike the current administration, you are not going to try to legislate her behavior… pray for her, be there to catch her if she falls… be the light in the darkness to lead her out…hey, just be the best sister you can be and try to refrain from casting stones…



Peace:thumbsup:

i’m outta here…

http://www.hbshows.com/images/spaceghost.JPG

 

[astegallrnc]

Joan,

Please understand that I have provided education to women, girls, etc. in a very nonjudgmental way for a very long time. \

The definition of pregnancy is not simple, is it?
Actually, the definition of pregnancy is very simple.

I should have clarified this statement. It sounds simple, but dancing around the medical terms makes it more complicated.

Whether the pill causes early abortion or not isn’t a hard medical fact but comes down to how a person defines pregnancy.
It is, indeed, a hard medical fact. The only people who claim that the pill does not cause an early abortion are the “pro-choice” people who refuse to recognize hard medical facts. There can be only one definition of pregnancy, unless you have morally and scientifically blinded yourself.

Let me correct this… the statement that the pill does not cause abortion IS NOT a medical fact but an individual’s chosen definition. That doesn’t articulate my point well either, but it is better.

I do believe pregnancy begins at conception, but I try to respect the opinion of others in the hopes maybe they won’t turn a deaf ear or blind eye to the facts I see. Does that make sense? I have had success with this approach.

 

[astegallrnc]

There is no good reason to take the contraceptive pill, since it does no good whatever - it prevents life, or it kills it, and when taken for “medical reasons” it does nothing except mask symptoms and put the woman at risk for health problems.

I disagree with this, and there are certainly women who have been helped with the pill when other treatments and medications have failed. These are RARE.

I object to the use of hormonal contraceptives for moral reasons, but I will not object to the pill because of side effects or risks associated with the method. I also won’t allow my faith to blind me to the benefits and medicinal value of hormonal contraceptives in select patients.

 

[BioCatholic]

while i never really did anything to hurt anyone else, a while ago i violated about every church teaching on sexuality.

a police officer, paramedic, all-american cowboy out to save the world, i did my share of saving lives and working for the common good. then once i got home, it was chasing girls, girls, girls. women tended to love a guy in uniform, and i exploited that. never really went to church, always let my married freinds stay over at my place when their wives wouldnt leave them alone.

i worked with embryonic human cells in the first year of my masters in pharmacology, cells that were derived from ectopic pregnancy terminations, but back then, still in a grey area of ethics. (since then NIH has approved using such cells as “organ donation” as long as the mother consents)

found out a girl i was with got pregnant, and got rid of the baby because she was going to pharmacy school.

not one thing anyone on the more conservative side of my family said made a DENT.

not until i i was working as a paramedic and found myself staring down the barrel of a .357 in the hands of a “tweaked out” meth freak, did I notice God happening to walk by. being at the wrong end of a firearm can do wonders for your spiritual life.

needless to say, the guy hit me with it instead of shooting me, and i have a scar on my forehead that i decided not to get stitched as a reminder of where i was. everyday i see it in the mirror, and just realize it could have been a large caliber round, and not just a cut.

God will send her a message of her own, i just hope it doesnt have to be as loud as mine.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Thanks for the responses everyone (oh, just so you know, I’m a guy, so I’d have to be a good brother… ).

Anyway, I figured being a minor tyrant wouldn’t get the message across and I had thought that forcing her to do anything would probably result in her hating me and maybe even doing anything and everything out of spite.

Have been praying, will be praying. Trying to go to daily Mass, reading the Bible and other Catholic books etc.

Again, thanks for the advice everybody and God bless you all!