Birth Control views?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ilovejesus1234
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
You still don’t understand God’s plan for marriage. Sexual intercourse is not merely for procreation. It is also unitive, it brings couples together in love. Sex is licit only when it is both procreative and unitive at the same time.

God gave man dominion over the Earth. He also entrusted the Keys to His Church. The Church has legitimate authority over us, we are not sovereign dictators over our own self-determination. God gave us reason and free will in order to serve Him. It is only when we use this reason and free will in His service that we are reconciled with Him. When we go off and selfishly do what we want because in our own mind we have determined that that is better for us, that is bald disobedience and will be surely punished.
 
For the simple reason that the woman has no idea of the outcome of any act of intercourse, and doesn’t even know she’s carrying a fertilised egg.

I could argue that if a woman intends to use contraception by NFP (and that’s what her intention is),
**Using **contraception is precisely what the married couple is **not **doing by using NFP, because they are **not **engaging in a procreative act. They do not want, at that time, to procreate, so they do not engage in the act.

This is the completely opposite of abc-using couples who do not want to procreate: they engage in the act but take an action to frustrate the end, or goal, of the act.
then the subsequent 3 times higher rate of zygote deaths is actually more culpable fhan using a contraceptive pill.
How could one possible say this? If I kill a chicken for dinner, I have killed the chicken. If the chicken gets sick and dies, I did not kill the chicken. How can I be culpable if a living being dies if I did not contribute to its death?

And the idea that NFP users have a 3 times higher rate of very early miscarriages seems off–do you have a source for that information?
 
I said I’d stop arguing the case as it’s going nowhere. However read the following link, and NFP is basically “without birth control”.

patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/zygotes-lost-with-birth-control-v-without-birth-control.html

The chicken analogy is false, since I determine beforehand I’m going to kill a pre-existent chicken. In the case of the pill, I don’t know what’s going to happen. It would be more accurate to talk about eating a fertile egg compared to eating a non-fertile egg.

In the very early stages, you wouldn’t know which was which, would you?
 
I said I’d stop arguing the case as it’s going nowhere. However read the following link, and NFP is basically “without birth control”.

patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/zygotes-lost-with-birth-control-v-without-birth-control.html

The chicken analogy is false, since I determine beforehand I’m going to kill a pre-existent chicken. In the case of the pill, I don’t know what’s going to happen. It would be more accurate to talk about eating a fertile egg compared to eating a non-fertile egg.

In the very early stages, you wouldn’t know which was which, would you?
I pray chickens have no real place in this debate…

Bob - you may be interested to read the sections of the Catechism which address the morality of human acts generally e.g. Ccc1749 - 1761.
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a4.htm

What you’ll discover there is that a good motivation to do an act, and an apparently good consequence of the act are insufficient to assure us of the act’s morality. Some acts are intrinsically evil, no matter their motivation or consequence. Fornication is one such act. Contraception is another.

Of course, all this may be of no consequence to you, as you have concluded that the Church is wrong in respect of its position that contraception is intrinsically evil. But, if you are at least prepared to go along with Catholic principals of morality, as set out in the section of the CCC referenced above, then your arguments need to be directed foremost to the intrinsic nature of contraception, not to the motivations for, or apparent consequences of, it.
 
For the simple reason that the woman has no idea of the outcome of any act of intercourse, and doesn’t even know she’s carrying a fertilised egg.

I could argue that if a woman intends to use contraception by NFP (and that’s what her intention is), then the subsequent 3 times higher rate of zygote deaths is actually more culpable fhan using a contraceptive pill.
Thank you for providing the documentation (below). First, her discussion is geared toward the Protestant anti-Pill argument, which is that using the Pill is wrong because it is abortifacient, rather than the Catholic argument, which is that using any form of abc to prevent conception is inherently wrong.

And this may be the cause of your confusion regarding Catholic teaching on this point. For us, the evil is not in the resulting non-appearance of children but in the act of frustrating the end of the marital act. The intention to deny the possibility of any children who might result from the act taken is what goes against God’s will and is therefore sinful.

Second, the study referred to compared the number of unborn babies lost as a result of using the Pill, and the number lost when a woman is *not using birth control, *as was explained in the post to which your linked article referred.

Hence, the couple using NFP may lose 18% of any babies conceived at a time when they are presumably conceiving very few babies. Women using the Pill* will lose *every *baby conceived despite their use of the Pill (according to this scenario). If the methods fail at the same rate, then the users of the Pill would lose 5X the number of babies as the NFP users.

*These numbers for the Pill may actually be incorrect. AGI shows that a surprisingly large number of women going for abortions report using the Pill correctly; and more recent versions of the Pill apparently do not have the same abortifacient effect of earlier versions. I don’t know if these two facts are related at all.
I said I’d stop arguing the case as it’s going nowhere. However read the following link, and NFP is basically “without birth control”.
**ETA: **It is absurd to compare pregnancy rates of couples who are *not *trying to avoid conception with those who refrain from marital relations at the time when the wife is likely to conceive, so this point is pretty darned moot.
The chicken analogy is false, since I determine beforehand I’m going to kill a pre-existent chicken. In the case of the pill, I don’t know what’s going to happen. It would be more accurate to talk about eating a fertile egg compared to eating a non-fertile egg.
In the very early stages, you wouldn’t know which was which, would you?
The reason I brought this analogy in was that you said that a woman who lost a baby before implantation was “more culpable” than a woman on the Pill, since she conceived and therefore lost more babies as the Pill prevents most conception in the Pill-using women.

What I was trying to illustrate is that a natural occurrence such as the loss of an unborn baby has no culpability. Knowing that if I conceive 10 children, I am likely to lose at least one or two, am I culpable for the death(s) because I did not prevent their conception? Obviously not.

However, for a woman using the Pill knowing that the back-up mechanism is lack of implantation and subsequent death of the unborn baby, there is culpability. For a woman using the Pill *not *knowing that, there would not be personal culpability, but the objective fact would still remain that she took the action, unlike women using NFP, *who take no action. *
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top