Birth control

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He isn’t just saying that Birth Control pills are evil, but so is NFP.

His take is that you should have as many children as you can. If it is bad for you, you know, could kill you, you have two choices. You can abstain forever or you can get pregnant and die. :rolleyes:
exactly
place your life under God’s Will
 
Birth Control/Natural Family Planning are not evil. :rolleyes:
How can you even equate birth control with NFP? Without bothering to address the NFP issue, I will address birth control.

It IS evil. And I’m not sure what kind of a world you live in where an abortifacient, a substance which allows CONCEPTION and then prevents that same LIFE from taking hold, resulting in a spontaneous abortion. Now, if you don’t consider abortion to be evil, perhaps I’m wasting my time.

Many people don’t understand that the pill is nothing more than a very early term abortion. Do a little research on this. When the pill was first developed it contained enough hormones to prevent any eggs from being produced, but the side effects were tremendous. So the fertilized egg is passed with the menses.

Here’s a video on the matter:
youtube.com/watch?v=jiCU46_lWeE
 
We have only used NFP for all 11 years of our marriage, you are not alone!
 
How many Catholics truly live by the church’s teachings on not using birth control? I feel like the last guy in America who does. At least that’s what everyone tells me.
I read in a newspaper about twenty yrs ago, that it was about 25%. :confused:

I have heard the statistic that the Catholic divorce rate is about the same as the rest of the western world. Around 50%. How sad. 😦

I also heard in a presentation on the Creighton method of NFP, that the divorce rate among Catholics who follow the Church’s teaching (trust God, and be open to life, if it’s in God’s will for you), is a mere 3%.

So, sounds like you are on the right track if you care about your marriage. Think of it this way, 3% is a lot of people! Out of a million American Catholics, there might be 30,000. So, you’re not as alone as you feel. Even if you felt alone, you would always have your spouse… And isn’t that what matters?
 
You kinda have to be one the same page on the BC issue to be happily married. How do you handle his eagerness?

This brings up another issue for those who didn’t engage in premarital sex. The BC issue never came up before marriage; rather it came up only after my wife decided that the risk of an unhealthy baby was too great at her age and 2 kids were enough… At first BC to me was an invitation for more intimacy which in time became unwelcomed to her. That’s when I realize that I (we) was (were) being selfish and I realized and believed BC was the cause of the problem. Any one else experience something similar?
Walter Mitty,

You should really read what the Beloved Pope John Paul II has to say in the Theology of the Body on this matter. I suggest you find a copy of “Good News for Sex and Marriage” by Christopher West.

Part of Catholic teaching on birth control is that a couple practice continence in their marriage. When they periodically abstain from physical intimacy they can be developing emotional and spiritual intimacy. When they have grown together in emotional and spiritual intimacy, they want to renew their wedding vows with physical intimacy. Just like in Lent, when we give up something for a while, when we get to have it again (ie: chocolate), it is so much more delicious. That’s how God wired us. So in a way, a couple that practices periodic abstinence, when they do come together again, it’s like another honeymoon.
 
Walter Mitty,

You should really read what the Beloved Pope John Paul II has to say in the Theology of the Body on this matter. I suggest you find a copy of “Good News for Sex and Marriage” by Christopher West.

Part of Catholic teaching on birth control is that a couple practice continence in their marriage. When they periodically abstain from physical intimacy they can be developing emotional and spiritual intimacy. When they have grown together in emotional and spiritual intimacy, they want to renew their wedding vows with physical intimacy. Just like in Lent, when we give up something for a while, when we get to have it again (ie: chocolate), it is so much more delicious. That’s how God wired us. So in a way, a couple that practices periodic abstinence, when they do come together again, it’s like another honeymoon.
I have been trying to get a copy of Theology of the Body or even West’s book, but can’t find one published in the language my spouse understands. (trust me, it doesn’t exist).

Walter Mitty: I am going through the same thing. It is the source of my greatest sadness and frustration. Not sure what to do, as abstinence is very difficult.

Ishii

Ishii
 
So, sounds like you are on the right track if you care about your marriage. Think of it this way, 3% is a lot of people! Out of a million American Catholics, there might be 30,000. So, you’re not as alone as you feel. Even if you felt alone, you would always have your spouse… And isn’t that what matters?
Thanks for doing the math. I hadnt thought of it in terms of numbers But how many of those 30,000 are married to each other?
 
You kinda have to be one the same page on the BC issue to be happily married. How do you handle his eagerness?

This brings up another issue for those who didn’t engage in premarital sex. The BC issue never came up before marriage; rather it came up only after my wife decided that the risk of an unhealthy baby was too great at her age and 2 kids were enough… At first BC to me was an invitation for more intimacy which in time became unwelcomed to her. That’s when I realize that I (we) was (were) being selfish and I realized and believed BC was the cause of the problem. Any one else experience something similar?
It is difficult. We are happily married - 10 years this spring - with two wonderful boys and more than anything, I want to leave it up to God if we can have another (I’m 38, he’s 47). His feeling is that two is plenty, he is stressed and exhausted by his work and the pressures on him, and this is just another pressure. I’ve backed off and prayed that he would come to see that we are not doing the right thing by God or by our family, but he hasn’t.

I’m not sure what to do. He respects greatly the priest who married us (who has since retired) - I’ve thought about calling him up to see if we could see him for counseling. But with DH’s schedule and the pressures he’s under, I’m uncomfortable asking him for regularly scheduled time.

Basically, we’ve both short-changed ourselves as individuals and as spouses for the sake of his job and our kids, and I’m tired of feeling robbed of his time and attention. At the same time, I see the enormous pressure on him and I don’t want to add to that.

It is a dilemma that I have prayed and prayed on and don’t see a resolution soon. I see families every day that have far less than we do (and we are not well off but are pretty frugal and doing ok) that have four, five, even six kids. He also feels that he is too old to do this again, and he doesn’t want to take time or attention away from our two little ones (2 & 5) to attend to another child.

SO I’m faced with the awful choice of submitting to his use of ABC or being celibate. I’ve taken this to Confession, and our priest counseled that I’m not the one sinning, and that I should continue to pray for guidance.
 
County Mom,
I think that would be a difficult situation to be in. Have you given any thought to NFP? It would be an improvement on ABC although the reasons for using it to avoid conception have to be valid. I am in a similar situation only the roles are reversed. DW and I are very far apart on this issue. NFP is not an option and the only way I think (aside from divine intervention) I can solve this problem is by getting my spouse to read the theology of the body or the book by West. Problem is, they’re not published in Japanese. Will continue to pray and try to live as a faithful Catholic in this situation but it is difficult. I feel like I have hit a brick wall.

Ishii
 
How many Catholics truly live by the church’s teachings on not using birth control? I feel like the last guy in America who does. At least that’s what everyone tells me.
You are NOT the only guy in America.

However about 96 percent of Catholics in America do not abide by the Church’s teachings in this matter…and yes the number is that high.

This I heard from Fr. Mitch Pacwa on EWTN a few weeks ago and it is scary. The blatent disobediance…but it is not all fault of those who do not abide by the Church’s teachings…it is the fault of the priests and Bishops for not condemning the use of Artificial Contraception and sterilization from the pulpits on Sunday. In the words of a local priest here, “We tend not to get into these ‘political issues’. People are already complaining that my Masses are over 45 minutes and a lecture to teach why no AC or sterilization would be a lengthy sermon.”

Ken
 
And by the way,

My wife is due March 10-

David Alexandar (St. Alexandar The charcoal burner) will be our fifth child in our fifth year of marriage.

I hear it from everyone- particularly those who I work with. “Are you done? Is this the last one?” My wife hears it from CATHOLICS! She attends this special Mass sometimes for Fillipinos and many approach her and learn she is carrying her fifth child and ask her if she will get a tubal ligation as they have all done…

If they heard from the pulpit that all of this is sinful, evil and mortal sin maybe it would all change.

Ken
 
It is difficult. We are happily married - 10 years this spring - with two wonderful boys and more than anything, I want to leave it up to God if we can have another (I’m 38, he’s 47). His feeling is that two is plenty, **he is stressed and exhausted by his work and the pressures on him, and this is just another pressure. I’ve backed off and prayed that he would come to see that we are not doing the right thing by God or by our family, but he hasn’t. **
**
I’m not sure what to do. ** He respects greatly the priest who married us (who has since retired) - I’ve thought about calling him up to see if we could see him for counseling. ** But with DH’s schedule and the pressures he’s under, I’m uncomfortable asking him for regularly scheduled time. **

**Basically, we’ve both short-changed ourselves as individuals and as spouses for the sake of his job and our kids, and I’m tired of feeling robbed of his time and attention. **] At the same time, I see the enormous pressure on him and I don’t want to add to that.
It is a dilemma that I have prayed and prayed on and don’t see a resolution soon. I see families every day that have far less than we do (and we are not well off but are pretty frugal and doing ok) that have four, five, even six kids. ** He also feels that he is too old to do this again, and he doesn’t want to take time or attention away from our two little ones (2 & 5) to attend to another child.**

SO I’m faced with the awful choice of submitting to his use of ABC or being celibate. I’ve taken this to Confession, and our priest counseled that I’m not the one sinning, and that I should continue to pray for guidance.

First of all, you are NOT faced with only two choices: artificial birth control or Celibacy!!! You have a third choice and that is periodic abstinence only during the fertile period of your cycle, and leaving the rest up to God. IF God wants you to conceive a child while you are not fertile, OR if the two of you really really want to come together at a time when you both know you are fertile and you conceive, then you can know that the new life is God’s will for you.

You have shared many things in your post that tell me that it might not be a good time to conceive.

Here is what Pope John Paul II says regarding “Responsible Parenthood” in one of his Theology of the Body addresses. Part of his teaching of the Theology of the Body, was to expand on Pope Paul VI’s Humanae Vitae.

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP840801.htm

Also, check out this resource online, a free download of
Contraception: Why Not
Also available free just for asking

contraception.excerptsofinri.com/
In this presentation, Dr. Janet Smith teaches why married intercourse needs to remain open to (the possibility) of life each time according to the teaching of the Catholic Church.
 
It is difficult. We are happily married - 10 years this spring - with two wonderful boys and more than anything, I want to leave it up to God if we can have another (I’m 38, he’s 47). His feeling is that two is plenty, **he is stressed and exhausted by his work and the pressures on him, and this is just another pressure. I’ve backed off and prayed that he would come to see that we are not doing the right thing by God or by our family, but he hasn’t. **
**
I’m not sure what to do. ** He respects greatly the priest who married us (who has since retired) - I’ve thought about calling him up to see if we could see him for counseling. ** But with DH’s schedule and the pressures he’s under, I’m uncomfortable asking him for regularly scheduled time. **

**Basically, we’ve both short-changed ourselves as individuals and as spouses for the sake of his job and our kids, and I’m tired of feeling robbed of his time and attention. **] At the same time, I see the enormous pressure on him and I don’t want to add to that.
It is a dilemma that I have prayed and prayed on and don’t see a resolution soon. I see families every day that have far less than we do (and we are not well off but are pretty frugal and doing ok) that have four, five, even six kids. ** He also feels that he is too old to do this again, and he doesn’t want to take time or attention away from our two little ones (2 & 5) to attend to another child.**

SO I’m faced with the awful choice of submitting to his use of ABC or being celibate. I’ve taken this to Confession, and our priest counseled that I’m not the one sinning, and that I should continue to pray for guidance.

First of all, you are NOT faced with only two choices: artificial birth control or Celibacy!!! You have a third choice and that is periodic abstinence only during the fertile period of your cycle, and leaving the rest up to God. IF God wants you to conceive a child while you are not fertile, OR if the two of you really really want to come together at a time when you both know you are fertile and you conceive, then you can know that the new life is God’s will for you.

You have shared many things in your post that tell me that it might not be a good time to conceive. It might be loving your husband to abstain and not force the issue right now while he is under so much pressure. Men seem to know when their wives want to use them just to make a baby.

Here is what Pope John Paul II says regarding “Responsible Parenthood” in one of his Theology of the Body addresses. Part of his teaching of the Theology of the Body, was to expand on Pope Paul VI’s Humanae Vitae.

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP840801.htm

Also, check out this resource online, a free download of
Contraception: Why Not
Also available free just for asking

contraception.excerptsofinri.com/
In this presentation, Dr. Janet Smith teaches why married intercourse needs to remain open to (the possibility) of life each time according to the teaching of the Catholic Church.
 
RESPONSIBLE PARENTHOOD
Pope John Paul II
General audience of August 1, 1984

  1. For today we have chosen the theme of “responsible parenthood” in the light of the Constitution “Gaudium et spes” and of the Encyclical “Humanae vitae.”
The Council document, in treating of the subject, limits itself to recalling the basic premises; the papal document, however, goes further, giving to these premises a more concrete content.

The Council text reads as follows: "When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, it is not enough to take only the good intention and the evaluation of motives into account; the objective criteria must be used, criteria drawn from the nature of the human person and human action, criteria which respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; all this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is seriously practiced" .

The Council adds: “In questions of birth regulation the sons of the Church, faithful to these principles, are forbidden to use methods disapproved of by the teaching authority of the Church” (GS 51).

Ruled by Conscience
  1. Before the passage quoted, the Council teaches that married couples “shall fulfill their role with a sense of human and Christian responsibility and the formation of correct judgments through docile respect for God”**. This involves “common reflection and effort; it also involves a consideration of their own good and the good of their children already born or yet to come, an ability to read the signs of the times and of their own situation on the material and spiritual level, and finally, an estimation of the good of the family, of society and of the Church” **
At this point there follow words of particular importance to determine with greater precision the moral character of “responsible parenthood.” We read: “It is the married couple themselves who must in the last analysis arrive at these judgments before God”
And it continues: “Married people should realize that in their behavior they may not simply follow their own fancy but must be ruled by conscience—and conscience ought to be conformed to the law of God in the light of the teaching authority of the Church, which is the authentic interpreter of divine law. For the divine law throws light on the meaning of married love, protects it and leads it to truly human fulfillment”
  1. The Council document, in limiting itself to recalling the necessary premises for responsible parenthood, has set them out in a completely unambiguous manner, clarifying the constitutive elements of such parenthood, that is, the mature judgment of the personal conscience in relationship to the divine law, authentically interpreted by the Magisterium of the Church.
True Conjugal Love
  1. The Encyclical “Humanae vitae”, basing itself on the same premises, goes further and offers concrete indications. This is seen, first of all, in the way of defining “responsible parenthood”
Paul VI seeks to clarify this concept by considering its various aspects and excluding beforehand its reduction to one of the “partial aspects, as is done by those who speak exclusively of birth control.”

From the very beginning, indeed, Paul VI is guided in his reasoning by an integral concept of man (cf. HV 7) and of conjugal love

Under Different Aspects
  1. One can speak of responsibility in the exercise of the function of parenthood under different aspects. Thus he writes: “In relation to the biological processes involved, responsible parenthood is to be understood as the knowledge and observance of their specific functions. Human intelligence discovers in the faculty of procreating life, the biological laws which involve human personality”
    **
    If, on the other hand, we examine “the innate drives and emotions of man, responsible parenthood expresses the domination which reason and will must exert over them”
    Taking for granted the above-mentioned intra-personal aspects and adding to them the “economic and social conditions,” those are considered “to exercise responsible parenthood who prudently and generously decide to have a large family,** or who, for serious reasons and with due respect to the moral law, choose to have no more children for the time being or even for an indeterminate period”
From this it follows that the concept of “responsible parenthood” contains the disposition not merely to avoid “a further birth” but also to increase the family in accordance with the criteria of prudence. In this light in which the question of “responsible parenthood” must be examined and decided, there is always of paramount importance “the objective moral order instituted by God, the order of which a right conscience is the true interpreter” (HV 10).
  1. The commitment to responsible parenthood requires that husband and wife, “keeping a right order of priorities, recognize their own duties towards God, themselves, their families and human society” (HV 10). One cannot therefore speak of “acting arbitrarily.”
On the contrary the married couple “must act in conformity with God’s creative intention” (HV 10). Beginning with this principle the encyclical bases its reasoning on the “intimate structure of the conjugal act” and on “the inseparable connection of the two significances of the conjugal act” (cf. HV 12), as was already stated previously. The relative principle of conjugal morality is, therefore, fidelity to the divine plan manifested in the “intimate structure of the conjugal act” and in the “inseparable connection of the two significances of the conjugal act.”****
 
there is nothing wrong with natural family planning. you are still allowing the miracle of birth if God wants it by using the FPM. popes have been saying this method is alright for a very long time. as a matter of fact we used it to try to make our last three children.

as for birth control… i do not see how a man could love his wife and ask her to take a pill that could very well kill their child if one is procreated, make her physically ill, or could cause her multiple kinds of cancer.
 
there is nothing wrong with natural family planning. you are still allowing the miracle of birth if God wants it by using the FPM. popes have been saying this method is alright for a very long time. as a matter of fact we used it to try to make our last three children.

as for birth control… i do not see how a man could love his wife and ask her to take a pill that could very well kill their child if one is procreated, make her physically ill, or could cause her multiple kinds of cancer.
A premise of the Theology of the Body and the Sacrament of Marriage, is that with the marital embrace a couple renews their wedding vows. When you have sex with a barrier or with the use of artificial birth control, it’s like saying, I love you… but… I don’t love this about you, so I will protect myself from you(r fertility.)
 
i disagree… sometimes there are very good reasons to not have children at certain moments. health reasons is at the top of my list, mental stresses, etc. i believe using the FPM you are not telling God NO to children because conception is still a possibility.
 
I agree with everyone here, Birth Control/Natural Family Planning are very evil under any circumstances
I’m only going to say this once. NFP is not evil under any circumstances. That is the Catholic teaching. If you truly profess to be Catholic, you must obey to what God and the Catholic Church teaches.
 
I’m only going to say this once. NFP is not evil under any circumstances. That is the Catholic teaching. If you truly profess to be Catholic, you must obey to what God and the Catholic Church teaches.
Say it as many or as little times as you want. The Church teaches that subordinating the primary purpose (begetting of children) to the secondary purposes(mutual self-giving, pleasure, etc…) is intrinsically evil, under any circumstances.
Pope Pius XI, Casti Connubii (#’s 53-56), Dec. 31, 1930:“But no reason, however grave, may be put forward by which** anything intrinsically against nature may become conformable to nature and morally good**. Since, therefore, the conjugal act is destined primarily by nature for the begetting of children, those who in exercising it deliberately frustrate its natural powers and purpose sin against nature and commit a deed which is shameful and intrinsically vicious… As St. Augustine notes, ‘Intercourse even with one’s legitimate wife is unlawful and wicked where the conception of offspring is prevented.’ Onan, the son of Judah, did this and the Lord killed him for it (Gen. 38:8-10)…any use whatsoever of matrimony exercised in such a way that the act is deliberately frustrated in its natural power to generate life is an offence against the law of God and of nature, and those who indulge in such are branded with the guilt of a grave sin."
 
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