Birth of Jesus Christ?

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yessisan

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I know none of us know when Jesus was born, but I’m pretty sure all know it wasn’t on Dec. 25th. So, I was wondering what does the Church teach about the date? I have heard several stories. One that he was born in March, the JWs believe he was born in October, the atheists believe he was born in April.

Anyone know what our Church teaches?
 
I know none of us know when Jesus was born, but I’m pretty sure all know it wasn’t on Dec. 25th. So, I was wondering what does the Church teach about the date? I have heard several stories. One that he was born in March, the JWs believe he was born in October, I think the atheists believe he was born in April.

Anyone know what our Church teaches?
 
yessisan said:
I know none of us know when Jesus was born, but I’m pretty sure all know it wasn’t on Dec. 25th. So, I was wondering what does the Church teach about the date? I have heard several stories. One that he was born in March, the JWs believe he was born in October, I think the atheists believe he was born in April.

Anyone know what our Church teaches?
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It is not impossbile that Jesus was born on Dec 25; however, Dec 25 is the first day that you can see clearly the days are getting longer (during the winter season). It means that before this day, the night (Darkness) was longer; now, the day (Light) is longer.

Jesus as our Light(Day) coming into the world conquers the Dark(night).

Therefore, Dec 25 is a perfect day to remember Him being born.
 
By choosing Dec 25 to celebrate the Nativity of the Lord, the Church was not declaring that Jesus had to have been born on that date. It is merely the date chosen to celebrate the fact of Christ’s birth. Apparently, no one in the early Church thought it necessary to record or mention the date of Jesus’ birth. It may have been that it was common knowledge so no one thought it necessary to mention the date. At any rate, all we have to try to date it is the infancy accounts of Matthew and Luke. And unfortunately, the records of Tiberius’ census and Herod’s murderous attack on the infant boys of Bethlehem have been lost to us.
 
My understanding is that the Church discouraged celebrating birthdays (anyone know why?).
 
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Valke2:
My understanding is that the Church discouraged celebrating birthdays (anyone know why?).
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I’ve never heard that before. Where did you read/hear that?

AFAIK, the Church has never discouraged people from celebrating their birthdays.

If you are referring to the dates chosen for canonization, which are usually the day the saint died (or close to it), the Church chooses that date because it is the date of the saint’s birth into heaven.

And the Church only celebrates the birth dates of 3 persons: Jesus, Mary, and John the Baptist because each of them was born without the stain of original sin.
 
Valke2 said:
My understanding is that the Church discouraged celebrating birthdays (anyone know why?).
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I have never heard that the Church discourages celebrating birhtdays. That I believe is a JW belief.

Thanks,
RS
 
If observed at all, the celebration of Christ’s birth was usually lumped in with Epiphany (January 6), one of the church’s earliest established feasts. Some church leaders even opposed the idea of a birth celebration. Origen (c.185-c.254) preached that it would be wrong to honor Christ in the same way Pharaoh and Herod were honored. Birthdays were for pagan gods.

christianitytoday.com/history/newsletter/2000/dec08.html

jesus-talk.foolmoon.com/articles/christmas.htm

Ecclesiastes 7:1 1 A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one’s birth.

From a religious point of view, Christmas is less significant than Easter and other holidays, and the early church strongly opposed the celebration of birthdays. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

In particular, during the first two centuries of Christianity there was strong opposition to recognizing birthdays of martyrs or, for that matter, of Jesus. Numerous church fathers offered sarcastic comments about the pagan custom of celebrating birthdays when, in fact, saints and martyrs should be honoured on the days of their martyrdom—their true “birthdays,” from the church’s perspective.
britannica.com/eb/article-9082431/Christmas?source=YFAF
 
While we celebrate Jesus’ birth on the 25th of December, it is really His second coming that we await and look forward to during Advent.
 
Valke2 said:
If observed at all, the celebration of Christ’s birth was usually lumped in with Epiphany (January 6), one of the church’s earliest established feasts. Some church leaders even opposed the idea of a birth celebration. Origen (c.185-c.254) preached that it would be wrong to honor Christ in the same way Pharaoh and Herod were honored. Birthdays were for pagan gods.

christianitytoday.com/history/newsletter/2000/dec08.html

jesus-talk.foolmoon.com/articles/christmas.htm

Ecclesiastes 7:1 1 A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one’s birth.

From a religious point of view, Christmas is less significant than Easter and other holidays, and the early church strongly opposed the celebration of birthdays. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

In particular, during the first two centuries of Christianity there was strong opposition to recognizing birthdays of martyrs or, for that matter, of Jesus. Numerous church fathers offered sarcastic comments about the pagan custom of celebrating birthdays when, in fact, saints and martyrs should be honoured on the days of their martyrdom—their true “birthdays,” from the church’s perspective.
britannica.com/eb/article-9082431/Christmas?source=YFAF
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All the discussion back and forth between scholars and bishops and others in the early Church does not constitute “Church teaching.” Church teaching is only what is declared to be such by the Magisterium, not by anyone else. Obviously, the Church decided that the celebration of Christ’s birthday was a good thing since it was instituted by Church.

It reminds me of the debate about circumsion and the eating of meat offered to idols and other such issues talked about in the NT. Debate doesn’t mean dissent nor does it constitute Church teaching. Only when the Church speaks through the Magisterium, generally in its councils, does a teaching become formalized. And formalization does not at all mean that certain things were not believed before that time, only that the Church settled the matter once and for all.
 
Well, the point I was trying to get to was that other religions fixate on an actual date and claim Catholics are wrong for celebrating Christmas. During Homily this Sunday, our Pastor said it isn’t about celebrating the birth of a baby, but of God becoming flesh.

Anyway, I just wanted to know if our Church mentions any other month as the birth month for Jesus (just as other religions do). 12/25 is the date we celebrate but, any other dates used in the CC?
 
What non-Catholics seem to forget is that Christmas is short for “Christ’s Mass”. This is a feast day Mass–the Feast of the Nativity of the Lord. I don’t remember the Church ever claiming that it was the actual birth day of our Lord. Just lilke we don’t know when Mary was assumed but that feast day is in August.
 
yessisan said:
I know none of us know when Jesus was born, but I’m pretty sure all know it wasn’t on Dec. 25th. So, I was wondering what does the Church teach about the date? I have heard several stories. One that he was born in March, the JWs believe he was born in October, the atheists believe he was born in April.

Anyone know what our Church teaches?
Click to expand...
As far as I know the Church does not teach Jesus was born on a particular day because it is not important. The Church celebrates his birth on December 25 and that is sufficient.
 
yessisan said:
I know none of us know when Jesus was born, but I’m pretty sure all know it wasn’t on Dec. 25th. So, I was wondering what does the Church teach about the date? I have heard several stories. One that he was born in March, the JWs believe he was born in October, the atheists believe he was born in April.

Anyone know what our Church teaches?
Click to expand...
Eastern and Western Rites of the Church may use different dates.
 
The day we celebrate Our Risen Lord’s birth is not important. Its important that we do. Since no one knows certian the date, its not something I care to worry over. As far as the cult the JW’s go, their speculation of dates on Jesus’ birth is as ridiculous to consider as their end of times predicted dates that failed. Or any of their beliefs for that matter.Even if they were convinced of a date, the Jw’s dont celebrate birthdays anyway. So, I am not sure why you bring them into this, especially when they are non trinitarians who think Jesus is archangel Michael.:rolleyes:
Its good enough for me to accept the date the Church designated.
We all know he was born and thats what we are celebrating.
 
Damascus said:
. So, I am not sure why you bring them into this, especially when they are non trinitarians who think Jesus is archangel Michael.:rolleyes:
Its good enough for me to accept the date the Church designated.
We all know he was born and thats what we are celebrating.
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The reason to my bringing it up is that the JWs are talking about it right now. Since Christmas is coming, the JWs are saying we are crazy for thinking Jesus was born on 12/25, that it’s pagan, blah blah blah… so on our defense I was trying to tell my DH (a JW) the reason why we celebrate it, and that the date doesn’t matter. Then I just thought it’d be a good idea to ask if we (as Catholics) had a date other than 12/25 (which I didn’t think we did). No other reason at all…
 
There is no biblical prohibition on the celebration of birthdays as much as some would like to claim.

Many different Cults and religions attempt to make the assertation that it is somehow wrong to celebrate a birthday.

Christians with a Capital C, are not restricted from doing so.

We also are not compelled to celebrate it. Ahh— I hear the gasps of shock!

Yes, its a Holy Day of Obligation. We attend Mass on this day.

If that is what is meant by celebrating Our Risen Lord’s Birth, yes we must attend Mass on that day to celebrate it.

We are not required to nor are we prevented from doing anything in addition to this. IOW, Non Christians dont get to tell us how, when, where, what we do in addition to our attendance of Mass with regard to celebrating this event.

I will be back with the bible verses that dissmiss the false claim that we are not to celebrate birthdays.

As far as citings of early fathers go, fantastic. No problem there.

What’s that got to do, got to do with it? (sorry tina turner kicking in)

Expalin to me how its relevant here. I am all ears.
 
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